Excalibur [01] : The Accolade of Betsy Braddock *spoilers*

[useridgoeshere]

Probably that story (Infinity Countdown: Black Widow) was ignored or the author didn't know about it.

Well, I believe that what happens to X-characters outside of X-books is non-canon but that's just me. Bleeding Cool's article on Jamie's return said that Black Widow killed him in that story. How she could, i have no idea but it was her story, so I guess anything is possible.

[JasmineW]

It's not just otherworld. I don't get the amulet, i don't understand how or why Brian is a defender of otherworld. I don't get Morgan Lafey, is she pretty much a stand in for the one from King Author. Is she human with magic, is she a goddess? Can anyone get the amulet that Brian had or is it only transferrable to Betsy because she is his sister. Otherworld is the least of the context i'm missing.

Do you have this problem with other books?
Because that's pretty much every comic with a villain in you're describing. Does Necrosha go through Selene's backstory? Did Second Coming tell us the history if the Human Council in such great detail? Where was all the explanation for Ahab in Extermination?

[powerpax]

All I know about Morgan Le Fay is she's the real deal or close to it, and was prominent in Busiek's first big Avengers arc I read way back. I'm good to go.

[Veitha]

It's not just otherworld. I don't get the amulet, i don't understand how or why Brian is a defender of otherworld. I don't get Morgan Lafey, is she pretty much a stand in for the one from King Author. Is she human with magic, is she a goddess? Can anyone get the amulet that Brian had or is it only transferrable to Betsy because she is his sister. Otherworld is the least of the context i'm missing.

But those are all pretty famous Marvel Universe people. She's assuming you know a bit about them. Because a bit is all you need. If you think about it like this you could say that X-Men is hard to understand since you need to know who the Starjammers are and who's Vulcan and why is Cable young etc.

[Veitha]

Oh you beat me to saying the same things @Jasmine xd

[jwatson]

But it's like literally part of the story. Honestly and I say this because I saw your responses in the Hox PoX threads. You were way more lenient with Hickman not explaining everything. But here youre like i need everything explained in issue 1.

Hickman didn't take much for me to understand. But i'm just going to walk away because i'm actually starting to become frustrated because i really don't get it. I feel like i'm in the middle of a story and have to work backwards and then forwards and hey maybe that's on my comprehension but i appreciate you not trying to brush me with some broad stroke when i was really trying to understand a book that i was actually really excited for.

[cranger]

Apoc kept explaining what the heck was Otherworld to anyone who stepped near to him.

Apocalypse: Have you heard about Otherwold? The Kingdom of Camelot?

Trinary: No.

Apocalypse: Google it.

Reading through again with this conversation in mind, most of the 'needed' information is revealed but it is mostly via Apocalypse in somewhat indirect ways. The problem is that in a lot of these instances when and where he is making these references is not relevant to when the reader might be thinking up the questions. It can make the first read a little less clear.

[zinderel]

It sounds like in your day you were collecting Excalibur. Why would anyone need to go back and read old material in what is being pimped as a new dawn where you don't need the information. Now it seems in Trini's latest interview that changed because she says she is going deep into the Britian corps and other excalibur lore. How hard would it have been to give people a heads up so we can do our research ahead of time instead of going to get a book, sitting to read and and walking away with "WTF, pretty but WTF. Guess i got homework to do." I read other books, i work, i draw, not everyone has time to go read all the past detail right after they pick up a book.

I did collect it. I collected ALL of the X-Titles, back in the day. However, I didn’t collect Avengers or Spider-Man at all. When something Avengers or Spider-Man related happened in an X-Title, I had to go look up what they were referring to if I wanted to be informed. Doing so helped me learn about the shared universe and made me care - and want to learn - more about heroes I didn’t really care about before. It helped me better appreciate the shared universe and deep continuity that made Marvel stand out from DC. The fact that we no longer have notes from the editor regarding issue references anymore doesn’t help, either. Those little boxes that let us know to look at Spider-Man #246 for more information were a HUGE help that we don’t have anymore, for some reason. Prolly because editors are freaking lazy, now and barely do anything regarding continuity or controlling the timeline of releases, it seems. After all, as someone else pointed out, Selene should be trapped as of Captain America, but there she is on Krakoa. So when does Krakoa take place in relation to Captain America? In Black Panther, T’challa has been in space, and is currently in Wakanda, sleeping with Storm again, and dealing with the repercussions of the space race introduced at the end of Secret Wars. Meanwhile, he’s also chairman of the Avengers over in that title, and running the new SHIELD (Agents of Wakanada). When does ANY of that happen in relation to anything else?! Who knows, least of all, the editors...

I’m sorry if you feel unfairly called out if all you were seeking was information. It seemed like you were complaining that you have to do ANY research at all, and that just brought up my frustrations about the overall negativity about X-Fandom, of late. That’s on me.

It just boggles my mind how much complaining I am seeing lately across the boards, and your post kinda got lumped in. We are experiencing a Renaissance in the X-Men side of the universe after over a decade in the Metaphorical Dark Ages. We are getting new stories, using long-forgotten or under-used characters in new or exciting ways...and yeah, it’s a lot to take in. But that’s a GOOD thing...isn’t it? I understand people have lives and stuff, but it really takes next to no time at all to look up some of this information. Or even just ask about it on boards. That USED to be the point of these message boards: to being fans together and provide a resource for better in understanding/appreciating the stories.

Anymore, all I see lately, EVERYWHERE on these boards is more whining and complaining along the points I mentioned earlier, and it’s frustrating. It feels like people crapping all over other people’s joy just to crap on joy. Asking a question? Not understanding a plot? Those are fair discussion points and ‘valid’. Just...complaining to complain? That is frustrating as hell to me, as a long time fan who remembers how hard it USED to be to gather information on confusing plot or character points.

[jwatson]

But those are all pretty famous Marvel Universe people. She's assuming you know a bit about them. Because a bit is all you need. If you think about it like this you could say that X-Men is hard to understand since you need to know who the Starjammers are and who's Vulcan and why is Cable young etc.

Except i know who they are. I have never touched this side of the marvel universe but as i said i'm frustrated now so i'm just done.

[Dante Milton]

So the general reader knows what the Captain Britain Amulet should be? What it does? That it's so easily transferable? The average reader should know what is otherworld and what connection it even has to mutants in general. The average reader should just understand the connection between otherworld and the braddocks. We should just get all that context. Then hey it is what it is, i wear my complaining badge with pride because it could have been more accessible.

Apoc: "If we had a focal object, something that regularly traveled between such worlds--
Bets: "You mean like Captain Britain's amulet?"
Apoc: "I wouldn't advise separating the Captain from the source of his power."

Things we know about Otherworld from this issue:
- another dimension/plane of reality based on Avalon and Arthurian legend
- usually ruled by King Arthur, but he's missing, currently ruled by Morgan Le Fay
- a source of magic for Earth based humans
- connected to Captain Britain's amulet, which gives him his powers and allows him to freely travel there
- Captain Britain is ostensibly the defender of Otherworld and beholden to its ruler
- the amulet can be freely tranferred to another, because we see it happen

What more do you need to know for the purposes of this narrative?

[JasmineW]

Except i know who they are. I have never touched this side of the marvel universe but as i said i'm frustrated now so i'm just done.

I think it's ridiculous that the writers of Dawn of X didnt consult with you first on what you know and don't know of the marvel universe. How terrible of them!

[Veitha]

Apoc: "If we had a focal object, something that regularly traveled between such worlds--
Bets: "You mean like Captain Britain's amulet?"
Apoc: "I wouldn't advise separating the Captain from the source of his power."

Things we know about Otherworld from this issue:
- another dimension/plane of reality based on Avalon and Arthurian legend
- usually ruled by King Arthur, but he's missing, currently ruled by Morgan Le Fay
- a source of magic for Earth based humans
- connected to Captain Britain's amulet, which gives him his powers and allows him to freely travel there
- Captain Britain is ostensibly the defender of Otherworld and beholden to its ruler
- the amulet can be freely tranferred to another, because we see it happen

What more do you need to know for the purposes of this narrative?

Exactly. Morgana also hints at the fact that the Braddocks are linked by heritage to Otherworld if I'm not mistaken.

[H-E-D]

Am I wrong or are the characters in Apocalypse's Krakoan name not on the alphabet list.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Also, pretty sure there are no buildings with as many floors as you see on the final page anywhere in North Yorkshire.

“There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road“

[Desmark]

I imagine Cyclops or Magneto putting Apocalypse on trial for endangering Betty and Rogue's hibernation.
Did you order a code Excalibur. We want the truth!
Apocalypse: YOU CAN'T't HANDLE THE TRUTH!!