Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28
  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,382

    Default

    Grail = Darkseid lite = someone we can match WW up against but without making Darkseid look less because he’s being beaten up by a girl.

    Don’t believe me? Look at the way they found an excuse to not have WW fight Black Adam in Doomsday Clock.

    Diana can beat up Faora, but not Zod. That’s crazy talk.

    And if anyone is tempted to post pics from the first arc of Superman/Wonder Woman, be prepared for me to post from the same book to show Diana repeatedly getting trashed by Doomsday.
    Last edited by brettc1; 11-01-2019 at 07:41 PM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    1,850

    Default

    I think they should throw her in limbo for now, the character doesn't have much of a direction and she's been used too much, and wasn't really interesting in any moment.

    She has potential, sure, but writers are failing at using it, and if they keep using her with no idea what to do, then she's probably gonna keep looking bad everytime, and it can end up being ingrained in fans and other writers that she just isn't a good character, and that's gonna make it harder for her to be interesting later on.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    2,477

    Default

    Grail has the same sort of issue Darkseid has. Using her only in "big" stories means using her less often. It's an issue when you build up a bad guy too much. You can't write guys like Doomsday regularly. If you try they stop being interesting.

    But a character like Grail can do lesser activities that aren't "big" stories without being less powerful.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 11-03-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    3,193

    Default

    I think Grail suffers from being a poorly constructed character. She has a double origin due to her connections with Darkseid and the Amazons.

    But right there things start to get troubled. First, the versions of the Amazons that were used for Grail were not well received and has been removed from continuity. Second, there are more interesting characters among the New Gods (including women like Big Barda and Granny Goodness). Third, the connection between the Amazons and Darkseid felt more like an excuse to create Grail than anything else. Fourth, she came at a time when Wonder Woman's special position amongst the Amazons were under constant attack, not only by Grail but by Jason as well, and by the paternal narrative in general.

    So I'd rather leave her be. If some writer has a really good idea with her, that fits with the current Amazons, then by all means go ahead, but to me she's far down on the priority list over Wonder Woman villains.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,892

    Default

    The issue, now is there were no connections ever made with the new gods. I mean and I don't want to do this. What about Grail being Circe's daughter? So she can be a spy for her?

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    2,477

    Default

    That's a good point actually. She's a New God in origin, but not in story telling. That does make things weird. Maybe have her get into a fight with Barda?

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,892

    Default

    Another thing is how to do the New Gods fit in Wonder Woman? Now I know not every villian or hero needs to fit in the same genre. But the way it happened with Grail makes little sense. How would Darkseid get on the Island?

  8. #23
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,963

    Default

    Have her form a book club with all the other discarded "evil Wonder Woman-counterparts" formed over the years.

  9. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Have her form a book club with all the other discarded "evil Wonder Woman-counterparts" formed over the years.
    A "dark Wonder Woman" rumble could actually be a fun storyline. Grail, Devastation, Genocide and Superwoman fighting among themselves. Maybe introduce a Bizarro Wonder Woman for good measure.
    Diana can team up with Artemis and Nubia to contain the chaos.

    Diana: "Technically, you two are dark versions of me, too."
    Artemis/Nubia: "The hell we are!"
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  10. #25
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,963

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    A "dark Wonder Woman" rumble could actually be a fun storyline. Grail, Devastation, Genocide and Superwoman fighting among themselves. Maybe introduce a Bizarro Wonder Woman for good measure.
    Diana can team up with Artemis and Nubia to contain the chaos.

    Diana: "Technically, you two are dark versions of me, too."
    Artemis/Nubia: "The hell we are!"
    Nubia: "That's racist!"

  11. #26

    Default

    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,892

    Default

    I mean having her be an amazon okay. but what else makes her a good villian for Diana? Like anything Dc just throws something together.

  13. #28
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Let her rest 3-4 years

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •