Things you were surprised Marvel allowed

[catbellysqueezer]

I just read the last issue of Silver Surfer Black and it seems they've allowed a significant change to the character's appearance. Considering how much money Marvel makes off of branding it often surprises me what some writers and artists are allowed to get away with.

What are some character changes or story lines you guys were surprised Marvel permitted?

[HipHopAvenger]

Ms Marvel getting raped and the Avengers not batting an eye and Ms Marvel accepting it

[Huntsman Spider]

Ms Marvel getting raped and the Avengers not batting an eye and Ms Marvel accepting it

Yeah, that's always gonna be a sour one for me. At least Ms. Marvel was under mind control at the time, so that explained her. The other Avengers . . . not so much. And that was supposed to be the milestone issue 200.

Beyond that, I'm still surprised Marvel went ahead and let Hank Pym be portrayed as a wife-beater. Even if it was "the one time," it shows a huge lack of foresight on their end, especially given how much less sympathetic people generally view domestic abusers these days.

[U.N. Owen]

I think it was part of a drug PSA, but there was an arc in Power Pack where you see Julie tear open her legs attempting to kick a mutant with durable skin. Young me was legitimately shocked since kid protagonists in cartoons at the time and even now to an extent weren't exactly allowed to be shown bleeding, let lone have flesh torn open.

[charliehustle415]

For me it was the radical change for the main Marvel players during the height of the MCU.

Captain America: Steve -> Sam
Thor: Odinson -> Jane
Iron Man: Toni -> Riri
Hulk: Bruce -> Amadeus
Wasp: Jane -> Nadia

I mean these were their core characters and they changed them! It wasn't like the X-Men where Disney tried to sink them on purpose and replace them with the Inhumans.

Also another thing that I was really surprised they allowed was the combining and then eventual removal of the Ultimate Universe, I remember they swore up and down there would NEVER be a crossover with the 616; well look at it now.

[ed2962]

How graphic the scene where Sentry ripped Ares in half was in Seige.

[Holt]

For me it was the radical change for the main Marvel players during the height of the MCU.

Captain America: Steve -> Sam
Thor: Odinson -> Jane
Iron Man: Toni -> Riri
Hulk: Bruce -> Amadeus
Wasp: Jane -> Nadia

I mean these were their core characters and they changed them! It wasn't like the X-Men where Disney tried to sink them on purpose and replace them with the Inhumans.

I get the sense that for the most part, Disney doesn't actually care what goes on in the comics except for when A. it's something that provides them with fodder for future adaptations like movies, TV shows, video game and toys (which ironically, we're now seeing with several of those replacement characters) or B. when it's a total PR nightmare that brings a bunch of negative publicity to the company like Nazi Captain America.

[CaptCleghorn]

For me it was the radical change for the main Marvel players during the height of the MCU.

Captain America: Steve -> Sam
Thor: Odinson -> Jane
Iron Man: Toni -> Riri
Hulk: Bruce -> Amadeus
Wasp: Jane -> Nadia

It wasn't the changes that I found surprising, but that most of Marvel's biggest characters were replaced pretty much at the same time. We can also add Wolverine, Nick Fury, and Hawkeye to that list also.

[Iron Maiden]

Yeah, that's always gonna be a sour one for me. At least Ms. Marvel was under mind control at the time, so that explained her. The other Avengers . . . not so much. And that was supposed to be the milestone issue 200.

Beyond that, I'm still surprised Marvel went ahead and let Hank Pym be portrayed as a wife-beater. Even if it was "the one time," it shows a huge lack of foresight on their end, especially given how much less sympathetic people generally view domestic abusers these days.

I think that was mostly a case of a male writer (David Michelinie) and editor (Jim Shooter) being blind to how bad that idea was. It seems that from most accounts it was mostly Jim Shooter's story. Claremont had the guts to call it out later on in an issue of the X-Men. IIRC there was a long letter writer by a female reader in the Avengers letters page. You can read Carol Strickland's rather detailed blog about the travesty of it all here

[Electricmastro]

Yeah, that's always gonna be a sour one for me. At least Ms. Marvel was under mind control at the time, so that explained her. The other Avengers . . . not so much. And that was supposed to be the milestone issue 200.

Beyond that, I'm still surprised Marvel went ahead and let Hank Pym be portrayed as a wife-beater. Even if it was "the one time," it shows a huge lack of foresight on their end, especially given how much less sympathetic people generally view domestic abusers these days.

Yeah, how the heck rape and arguably even incest made it into the freaking 200th issue I'll never know. Just all kinds of wrong going on there.

What creeps me out about that was just how afraid Carol was initially, but all of the other Avengers are just so damn cheerful and happy about the baby. It feels like a horror movie where poor Carol is just being driven insane and then, at the end, she is just happy to be marrying her son. The whole thing is just so unnerving.

From what I've gathered, the failure to address what had happened to Ms. Marvel for what it was in Avengers #200 (which didn't properly receive closure until a year later in Avengers Annual #10, at least I felt), is Jim Shooter, George Pérez, Bob Layton, David Michelinie, and the editors not properly communicating with each other and not helped by deadlines which practically encouraged not giving stories the lookovers they were due, which doesn't excuse such questionable material that gets by of course, but I'm sure is still a complexity that plays a factor in how responsible a book ended up being handled, and may show the failures of the Comics Code of Authority as well actually. I suppose adding another complexity to the situation is what the average comic book writer would have constituted as rape in 1980 vs. what the average comic book writer would have constituted as rape in modern times, but that's probably another conversation entirely. In any case, Jim Shooter apologized on his website for what it's worth, and I get the feeling the other credited writers would apologize as well. I haven't seen them do though. If anything else, I suppose the biggest lesson to be learned here is to always give material the lookovers they're due, deadlines and the like be damned, or else you may just end up with a big smelly egg on your face that will be hard to clean off.

As for the "wife-beater" story, again, at least by Shooter's own account, it seems Hank was never intended to be as such. Apparently what was meant to happen is that the scene in which Hank accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration was supposed to have him making a sort of “get away from me” gesture while not looking at her. Bob Hall, who had been taught by John Buscema to always go for the most extreme action, turned that into a right cross. And going back to deadlines, there was no time to have it redrawn, and the consequence of that is causing the tragic story of Hank Pym to be known as the “wife-beater” story to this day.

Whatever the case, like with Avengers Annual #10, I feel that Avengers #227-230, while not forgetting the fact the event still happened, gives proper closure to the situation and more or less buried the hatchet on it:

[Omega Alpha]

Besides the two examples mentioned with Shooter's Avengers (yeah, probably not a coincidence), Hickman getting away with the Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan poly thing right now has been surprising. Of course, he also had the Avengers end with Captain America and Tony Stark murdering each other while the world burned, so...

[Iron Maiden]

Besides the two examples mentioned with Shooter's Avengers (yeah, probably not a coincidence), Hickman getting away with the Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan poly thing right now has been surprising. Of course, he also had the Avengers end with Captain America and Tony Stark murdering each other while the world burned, so...

As much as I liked Hickman's writing on other stuff he's done, I just haven't gotten down to reading his X-Men titles even though I bought them. Maybe it's just as well. This is part of the X-Men I really was sick of to tell the truth.

[XPac]

Besides the two examples mentioned with Shooter's Avengers (yeah, probably not a coincidence), Hickman getting away with the Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan poly thing right now has been surprising. Of course, he also had the Avengers end with Captain America and Tony Stark murdering each other while the world burned, so...

SInce we're mentioning Hickman (a writer I overall really really like), I absolutely hated the scene where Shuri basically decided to throw her life away for no reason and T'CHalla just kind of let her do it and left her. WTF was that?

[PCN24454]

I was surprised that they allowed Steve to go back in time at the end of Endgame. It’s arguably a big middle finger to his “Man out of Time” story and shows that they didn’t learn from OMD at all.

[Dr. Skeleton]

Clone Saga, Age Of Apocalypse, Heroes Reborn, OMD/BND and Iceman's coming out.