Things you were surprised Marvel allowed

[Bloxer]

I was surprised that they allowed Steve to go back in time at the end of Endgame. It’s arguably a big middle finger to his “Man out of Time” story and shows that they didn’t learn from OMD at all.

That's like not comparable to OMD at all, and he really stopped being a "Man out of time" by Winter Soldier

[Holt]

For me it was the radical change for the main Marvel players during the height of the MCU.

Captain America: Steve -> Sam
Thor: Odinson -> Jane
Iron Man: Toni -> Riri
Hulk: Bruce -> Amadeus
Wasp: Jane -> Nadia

I mean these were their core characters and they changed them! It wasn't like the X-Men where Disney tried to sink them on purpose and replace them with the Inhumans.

I get the sense that for the most part, Disney doesn't actually care what goes on in the comics except for when A. it's something that provides them with fodder for future adaptations like movies, TV shows, video game and toys (which ironically, we're now seeing with several of those replacement characters) or B. when it's a total PR nightmare that brings a bunch of negative publicity to the company like Nazi Captain America.

[ed2962]

Also surprising is when Fantastic Four #278-279 (1985) used the n-word multiple times: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron..._278-279.shtml

That's actually not shocking. The N-Word was used a few times in a couple of X-men stories from the same time period. It'd be used in prime time sitcoms of the day.

[comicscollector]

The Holographic card covers of the 90s.

[Anthony W]

The Holographic card covers of the 90s.

The variant madness of today.

[comicscollector]

The variant madness of today.

Usually i just buy comic books with the main cover but i have bought comic books with variant covers (There are some variant covers that i thought were even better that the main cover and in tpb´s i like that as a Extra it have all the variant covers collected,to see the different artist´s art styles) so the comic books having variant covers is not a issue to me as was the Holographic Marvel Covers of the 90s.

[Holt]

That's actually not shocking. The N-Word was used a few times in a couple of X-men stories from the same time period. It'd be used in prime time sitcoms of the day.

You also had the many characters on the Boondocks TV show regularly saying it. I think it's more a good taste/higher ups being worried about potential backlash issue rather than actually being forbidden from using it.

[Electricmastro]

Interesting point about the art in that issue. But still, both situations create this whole sense that no one was really doing as much quality control as they should have been. And it gives a very good reason for we need more quality control in the form of editors and writers who can provide different perspectives.

Yeah, I imagine that as hard as comic staff workers attempt to manage deadlines, perspectives, and quality control in a way that's responsible, irresponsible cases like with Avengers #200 still pop up and goes to show how seriously comic management should be treated, because the other Avengers seemed like cardboard cutout, childish characters that seemed incapable of fully comprehending the seriousness of Carol's situation.

I also imagine that if the story had been done with Carol attempting to explain her situation to blissfully ignorant teenagers instead of superheroes, I suppose any "ignorant friends" storyline going on would have seemed more believable, but the big difference is that Carol wasn't explaining her situation to teens who are ignorant about the outside world and the sorts of crimes that can happen in it, she was explaining her situation to fairly long-time superheroes that have witnessed criminal activity and criminals with hurtful, malicious intent on a daily basis.

I mean, with Beast being treated with discrimination for being a mutant and Captain America having seen wartime atrocities during World War II (and perhaps being familiar with the Rape of Nanking), I'm sure it's reasonably enough to assume that they'd realize just how bad people can be and how victims need to be shown humanity in the aftermath of inhuman situations, or at least how friends should show concern for their other friends when they're in a bad situation in general. I'm sure Iron Man's alcohol problem he had dealt with the previous year could have been used to help lead into that sort of feeling of empathy/humanity too. With Claremont being exceptionally keen on humanity in his comic writing, I can totally understand why he wrote Avengers Annual #10 the way he did.

[Omega Alpha]

As much as I liked Hickman's writing on other stuff he's done, I just haven't gotten down to reading his X-Men titles even though I bought them. Maybe it's just as well. This is part of the X-Men I really was sick of to tell the truth.

Heh...

Ultimatum, just Ultimatum

Really the ultimate universe was developing so well, a new portray of loved characters without the need to do a total reboot, we had the best of two worlds (616 and Ultimate) for a while (damn even characters that I couldn't stand in 616 were interesting in their ultimate version) and then all was flushed by the toilet in a pretty dumb way, that poor universe never fully recovered from that event.

Yep, although it's partially explained by Loeb being big on TV at the time, and because with his son dying no one had the nerve to say no to him at the time.

[Anthony W]

Usually i just buy comic books with the main cover but i have bought comic books with variant covers (There are some variant covers that i thought were even better that the main cover and in tpb´s i like that as a Extra it have all the variant covers collected,to see the different artist´s art styles) so the comic books having variant covers is not a issue to me as was the Holographic Marvel Covers of the 90s.

I will understand how people will condemn cover gimmicks of the 90s in one breath but turn a blind eye towards variants which are even more toxic than the cover gimmicks of the 90s. To each their own I guess.

[PCN24454]

That's like not comparable to OMD at all, and he really stopped being a "Man out of time" by Winter Soldier

I was talking about the literal Captain America story: Man Out of Time.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Capta...f_Time_Vol_1_1

[Electricmastro]

It was famously called out as rape in a magazine article by Carol Strickland at the time, so it's safe to say it's not an example of shifting perception.

I'm not sure, because though I do know of Strickland's article, I also recall a post that was later made known to me regarding how, historically, the perception of what constitutes rape had changed a lot over the 1980's. The poster said:

"It's very true. I'm old enough to remember when a rape victim had no hope of justice from courts or sympathy from police unless they were also the victim of an accompanying assault. Horrible incidents happened in my own family and went unpunished as far as I know. When I was growing up in Texas husbands and brothers were the only justice a rape victim might possibly have. I'm thankful our society has become more sensitive to the issue. No husband or brother should be forced to resort to vigilantism because the justice system won't recognize a crime."

So indeed, what Strickland said shouldn't be disregarded, but I don't think the bad experiences that others have gone through which weren't properly recognized and not fully brought to justice should be disregarded either. That's all.

[CaptCleghorn]

For me it was the radical change for the main Marvel players during the height of the MCU.

Captain America: Steve -> Sam
Thor: Odinson -> Jane
Iron Man: Toni -> Riri
Hulk: Bruce -> Amadeus
Wasp: Jane -> Nadia

It wasn't the changes that I found surprising, but that most of Marvel's biggest characters were replaced pretty much at the same time. We can also add Wolverine, Nick Fury, and Hawkeye to that list also.

[Chubistian]

How did this thread make it out so far without this?


That Osborn face gives me nightmares to this day, and I don't even hate the story!

Something that I do hate, though, and I don't know how it was allowed to exist:



Old sweet aunt NO MORE!

[JTHM]

The rape of Rogue.


Happened in X-Men #236. Granted, it's not as 'bad' (In the sense of being controversial) as was the rape of Ms Marvel or Gwen Stancy's relationship with Norman Osborn (HOW DID THIS HAPPENED?!!!!) but it's a forgotten bit of X-Story that I am surprised it's not referenced more. Granted, it was just one panel that was easy to just look over. Compared to what happened to Ms.Marvel which was a whole story. But nonetheless.