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  1. #16
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Theres also the possibility that the guns were enhanced in some way. The big spikes that Hela used to hold a spaceship in place were shattered by those same guns.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Loki is a bog standard frost giant, and not even a big one. There is no reason at all to believe that he's tougher than a standard Jotun. And frost giants are WEAKER than asgardians, hence Asgardians kicking their asses.
    Which part of the movie shows this?

    Of course there's no doubt the Asgardians defeated the Frost Giants at the start of the Thor movie, though that's not concrete proof that a standard Asgardian > a standard Frost Giant. What were the numbers during that battle? The Asgardians did seem better equipped and more organised and the Asgardians had Odin. For some reason the Frost Giants there were the same size as the Asgardians; whereas when Thor traveled to Jotunheim, the Frost Giants towered over Thor and the Warriors Three. Fandral stabbed a giant, then a giant stabbed him. I don't really see how it can be surmised that frost giants are weaker than Asgardians. Aragorn kicked Lurtz ass in the LotR movie, does that mean Lurtz was weaker than Aragorn?

  3. #18
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k von doom View Post
    Which part of the movie shows this?

    Of course there's no doubt the Asgardians defeated the Frost Giants at the start of the Thor movie, though that's not concrete proof that a standard Asgardian > a standard Frost Giant. What were the numbers during that battle? The Asgardians did seem better equipped and more organised and the Asgardians had Odin. For some reason the Frost Giants there were the same size as the Asgardians; whereas when Thor traveled to Jotunheim, the Frost Giants towered over Thor and the Warriors Three. Fandral stabbed a giant, then a giant stabbed him. I don't really see how it can be surmised that frost giants are weaker than Asgardians. Aragorn kicked Lurtz ass in the LotR movie, does that mean Lurtz was weaker than Aragorn?
    Weaker in combat, as the Asgardians at the VERY beginning of Thor were vastly outnumbered and won through. Thus, man for man, Asgardians are stronger warriors.

    Plus, each non-Thor member of the ill-advised strike force at the beginning of Thor handled NUMEROUS Jotuns, on their home turf. No, they didn't kill thousands like Thor did, but that's Thor and OBVIOUSLY his feats don't transfer. But there is absolutely nothing at all saying anywhere that non-Thor/Odin/Heimdahl Asgardians are physically more durable than others. And their presentation throughout all movies is as total badasses: Korg saying "awfully hard to perish," the fact that they conquered everything they tried to conquer back when they did such things, the fact that sharp steel combat knife blades pushed by strong, trained fighters break or bend on their skin...

    Also, Loki, clearly a very well trained combatant, clearly poops his pants when threatened by otherwise normal but probably well-trained Asgardians (Warriors Three and Sif). He also fights nearly evenly (and could have won, had he stabbed rather than being sarcastic) against Valkyrie, who is outright identified as an Asgardian, but he is still somewhat physically outclassed by her. One could argue for some kind of mass power/strength/durability differential between Asgardians (outside of a couple of specific examples), but there is literally nothing on-screen to back that up.
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  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Weaker in combat, as the Asgardians at the VERY beginning of Thor were vastly outnumbered and won through. Thus, man for man, Asgardians are stronger warriors.

    Plus, each non-Thor member of the ill-advised strike force at the beginning of Thor handled NUMEROUS Jotuns, on their home turf. No, they didn't kill thousands like Thor did, but that's Thor and OBVIOUSLY his feats don't transfer. But there is absolutely nothing at all saying anywhere that non-Thor/Odin/Heimdahl Asgardians are physically more durable than others. And their presentation throughout all movies is as total badasses: Korg saying "awfully hard to perish," the fact that they conquered everything they tried to conquer back when they did such things, the fact that sharp steel combat knife blades pushed by strong, trained fighters break or bend on their skin...

    Also, Loki, clearly a very well trained combatant, clearly poops his pants when threatened by otherwise normal but probably well-trained Asgardians (Warriors Three and Sif). He also fights nearly evenly (and could have won, had he stabbed rather than being sarcastic) against Valkyrie, who is outright identified as an Asgardian, but he is still somewhat physically outclassed by her. One could argue for some kind of mass power/strength/durability differential between Asgardians (outside of a couple of specific examples), but there is literally nothing on-screen to back that up.
    During the beginning of Thor 1, the Asgardians weren't vastly outnumbered at all. Watch the panning shot of the two armies and there's no discernible difference in their numbers. And I do agree that the Asgardians are more organised (I'd also say smarter and liken them to Roman Legionnaires fighting disorganised Gauls) when it comes to combat, although IMHO the bigger factor in that Asgardian victory was Odin and his destroyer-beam-spear that disintegrated everything in front of him. Now, when Asgardians are actually outnumbered, you can see what happens by flashing forward to the start of Dark World - in Vanaheim before Thor arrived, the Asgardians even with Sif and the Warriors Three, looked to be in complete disarray.

    Does Loki really poop his pants when threatened by those named Asgardians? From memory, Loki smiles when threatened by Sif and he makes a quip when threatened by Volstagg, so given those responses I don't think he was taking them seriously at all. Loki clearly has no reservations fighting Thor, who's far far superior to the Warriors Three and Sif. He displayed no fear fighting Dark Elves and Kurse. He had the balls to attempt a sneak attack on a Tesseract wielding Thanos. And the conclusion is Loki actually feels/felt threatened by the Warriors Three? Come on now.

  5. #20

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    You can argue where the bullets hit on Sif or if Loki's durability is transferable all day long.

    But! Hogun gets violently kicked through a /thick/ stone wall and manages to stand up after. They should be bullet proof from that feat alone.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 11-10-2019 at 04:53 PM.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    You can argue where the bullets hit on Sif or if Loki's durability is transferable all day long.

    But! Hogun gets violently kicked through a /thick/ stone wall and manages to stand up after. They should be bullet proof from that feat alone.
    Is Hogun Asgardian in the MCU? I'm pretty sure that he was from another pantheon/race in 616, but just immigrated to Asgard because he liked it so much.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Is Hogun Asgardian in the MCU? I'm pretty sure that he was from another pantheon/race in 616, but just immigrated to Asgard because he liked it so much.
    MCU doesn't really get into it. But Heimdall and others have different skin color and are Asgardian so he probably is as well. I dunno.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

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