Old Woman Laura discussion

[pkingdom]

There have been long discussion on other threads about whether they are clones or not. Based on how souls and the afterlife have always been presented, they're clones. Clones are always treated like separate people, and this feels like they want that to not be the case anymore.

Like, an early X story involved the X men fighting robots that had had the minds and personalities of the original X-men implanted in them. Based on this story, that would mean those robots are the same as the real people. Just because you swap out machine parts for rapidly grown meat suits shouldn't make a difference. And he's already dropped hints that they are going to do a story where they clone someone who turns out to not be dead, so they can absolutely mass produce people. This used to be considered a bad thing that bad guys did. Wolverine had a bunch of villains mass producing Sabretooth clones.

[Tycon]

We know, on-panel, that the souls of the Mutants are returned to the regrown bodies. That is what has been established.

[pkingdom]

You didn't answer this question the last time it was asked, so I'll ask again.

What makes these revivals "clones", but not the other 16 times the X-Men have all been killed?

Because they aren't being brought back to life. Copies of their memories are being stamped onto cloned bodies. People have been brought back for tons of reasons; magic, alien tech, the Phoenix, whatever. But this ignores their souls and can easily be used to mass produce people. Hickman himself has said they're going to do a storyline in an upcoming series where they clone somebody who turns out not to be dead.

[pkingdom]

We know, on-panel, that the souls of the Mutants are returned to the regrown bodies. That is what has been established.

That's what Magneto and Xavier think they are doing, but I want to hear it from Doctor Strange, because making copies of the souls of every mutant on earth is some Mephisto or Infinity Stone kind of work.

[Huntsman Spider]

That's what Magneto and Xavier think they are doing, but I want to hear it from Doctor Strange, because making copies of the souls of every mutant on earth is some Mephisto or Infinity Stone kind of work.

You mean like how he did for Curt Connors with his "reanimated" family from The Clone Conspiracy?

[Tycon]

I think we need to be able to discern when characters are putting their internal bias into their statement and when they’re just plainly world-building and presenting us with exposition. I don’t think everything in Hickman’s run is something that has to be questioned, especially when (in this case) there is an entire issue dedicated to making sure they aren’t seen as clones, providing a detailed explanation of how these ones are the real deal. There’s an entire ceremony to prove that these are the OGs.

[Ambaryerno]

Ok seriously, guys, this is about Old Woman Laura, not Hickman.

[PsychoEFrost]

Ok seriously, guys, this is about Old Woman Laura, not Hickman.

Let's be fair, this was always a stealth anti-Hickman thread.

[Tycon]

Ok seriously, guys, this is about Old Woman Laura, not Hickman.

None of this is really off topic because the whole reason for the thread is made obvious with the last part of the OP

In light of recent X books changes, I think the idea should come back. If nothing else it strikes at the core of everything Moira stands for.

[pkingdom]

Fair, to all points.

I would like to see Old Woman Laura come back. It was an alt future that could be mined for more stories. Or at least more critical examination

[powerpax]

None of this is really off topic because the whole reason for the thread is made obvious with the last part of the OP

I feel like this is going to multiply tenfold when Laura turns out not to be an anti-Krakoa advocate.

[Triniking1234]

Old Woman Laura was the last arc of All New Wolverine written by Tom Taylor. I think it might actually be one of the most underappreciated arcs in an X-men book. For those unaware, Old Woman Laura took place in an alternate/potential future where THE GOOD GUYS WON. Pretty much every villain and major threat has been taken care of. Laura is Queen of Madripoor, Gabby is the newest Wolverine with laser claws, Ms. Marvel is now President of the United States, etc. The only remaining threat was Doctor Doom, and taking care of him was the plot of the arc. We didn't see much of it, but the very idea of a future where the good guys win and things are largely peaceful is an interesting one.

In light of recent X books changes, I think the idea should come back. If nothing else it strikes at the core of everything Moira stands for.

It was underappreciated cuz it wasn't good unlike his other Logan storyline rehash: Enemy of the State II.

The idea doesn't need to come back cuz it hasn't left.

[Nazrel]

It was underappreciated cuz it wasn't good unlike his other Logan storyline rehash: Enemy of the State II.

The idea doesn't need to come back cuz it hasn't left.

Seriously? Enemy of the State II?

Enemy of the State II was the worst arc in the series.

The pacing was inconsistent, the first half of the third issue was completely at odds with the second half, it quickly became tensionless, the solutions provided were cheap and weightless, the one good moment (Her killing Kimura ) was undermined by an inappropriate epic pose, and a final declaration of self being an appropriated moniker uniformly associated with someone else. (The associated implications of which are "I am desperately trying to be something I'm not."; which was the opposite of what they were going for.); and to top it off, they copped out on the inciting incident in a manner that makes neither logical or logistical sense when held to the slightest scrutiny. (Occam's razor says Bellona is lying.)

I'm not exactly a the biggest fan of Old Woman Laura, but Enemy of the State II was garbage.

[Glio]

That's what Magneto and Xavier think they are doing, but I want to hear it from Doctor Strange, because making copies of the souls of every mutant on earth is some Mephisto or Infinity Stone kind of work.

I am quite sure that Illyana has enough experience with souls so that she could say if something in the process does not work.

[Digifiend]

Fair, to all points.

I would like to see Old Woman Laura come back. It was an alt future that could be mined for more stories. Or at least more critical examination

There is one story that already used that future. In Ms. Marvel, Bruno was shown several possible futures, including him and Kamala being married, Kamala becoming a battle hardened post-apocalyptic leader (this was the version from Exiles), Kamala going off with Red Dagger, and President Kamala, which was taken straight from the Old Woman Laura story. He only told her about the last one.