Marvel's Trouble with "Status Quo"?

[Gaastra]

With the last issue of superior Spider-Man we once again get a "fear to change the status quo" with marvel. I just came from another forum site and they are tearing marvel apart over it! One comment was "I feel like I wasted a year reading this." It was all for nothing. It's like we are in a episode of he-man from the 80s. Nothing can change and everything must stay the same by the end. If there is a change we must change it back.


Dr doom--after 40 years of the same story over and over and overusing him to the point people are sick of him they change it up. Doom gets a much needed change. They fix his face and make him a "anti hero". He made ties with the fantastic four also and can grow as a character. Can't have that. Bad guy again right away throwing away all that character growth.


Galactus--After the 200th story of him wanting to eat the earth they did something new and fresh with him! They turned him good. Can't have that! Back to status quo by a year.

Sandman--Turned good and grew as a hero even joining the avengers! Can't have that. Mind control (how lazy can you get! Also why has the thing not cured him yet? They have the cure and have used it twice!)

Spider-man--Gets married and grows as a hero. New stories can be told without spidey "not having money" for the 2000th time. Can't have that! It's magic and spideys acting like a 10 years old again. (isn't that what ultimate Spider-Man was for?)

Torch--Marries and grows as a hero. Stops acting like a child. Can't have that. Wife's a skrull and he turns back into a ten year old again flushing years of growth.

Old man logan and female wolverine--Nope bring the old one back.


It's like marvel is to scared to grow it's heroes. Magneto turned good? Nope we want him as a bad guy again. Is marvel (and dc with the batman wedding) just scared to change? When they do change something it's undone after a few years and they "return to staus quo."

If hawkeye and wanda were new bad guys they would never stayed as heroes today. They would have turned bad again!


And marvel wonders why they are getting beat by manga and young reader books in sales. How long before the new X-Men titles go back to what they were?


Is this starting to be a problem or is everything still fine with marvel never letting heroes or bad guys grow?


What do you guys think? Is it really nothing or is it starting to be a problem for marvel?

[charliehustle415]

With the last issue of superior Spider-Man we once again get a "fear to change the status quo" with marvel. I just came from another forum site and they are tearing marvel apart over it! One comment was "I feel like I wasted a year reading this." It was all for nothing. It's like we are in a episode of he-man from the 80s. Nothing can change and everything must stay the same by the end. If there is a change we must change it back.


Dr doom--after 40 years of the same story over and over and overusing him to the point people are sick of him they change it up. Doom gets a much needed change. They fix his face and make him a "anti hero". He made ties with the fantastic four also and can grow as a character. Can't have that. Bad guy again right away throwing away all that character growth.


Galactus--After the 200th story of him wanting to eat the earth they did something new and fresh with him! They turned him good. Can't have that! Back to status quo by a year.

Sandman--Turned good and grew as a hero even joining the avengers! Can't have that. Mind control (how lazy can you get! Also why has the thing not cured him yet? They have the cure and have used it twice!)

Spider-man--Gets married and grows as a hero. New stories can be told without spidey "not having money" for the 2000th time. Can't have that! It's magic and spideys acting like a 10 years old again. (isn't that what ultimate Spider-Man was for?)

Torch--Marries and grows as a hero. Stops acting like a child. Can't have that. Wife's a skrull and he turns back into a ten year old again flushing years of growth.

Old man logan and female wolverine--Nope bring the old one back.


It's like marvel is to scared to grow it's heroes. Magneto turned good? Nope we want him as a bad guy again. Is marvel (and dc with the batman wedding) just scared to change? When they do change something it's undone after a few years and they "return to staus quo."

If hawkeye and wanda were new bad guys they would never stayed as heroes today. They would have turned bad again!


And marvel wonders why they are getting beat by manga and young reader books in sales. How long before the new X-Men titles go back to what they were?


Is this starting to be a problem or is everything still fine with marvel never letting heroes or bad guys grow?


What do you guys think? Is it really nothing or is it starting to be a problem for marvel?

Change is a like a rubber band, it will only go so far before it snaps back and pokes you in the eye.

This is true for all corporate super hero comic books both for Marvel & DC.

Corporations want new readers and they think the only way to do so is with a new starting point with the same status quo over and over again.

[XPac]

With the last issue of superior Spider-Man we once again get a "fear to change the status quo" with marvel. I just came from another forum site and they are tearing marvel apart over it! One comment was "I feel like I wasted a year reading this." It was all for nothing. It's like we are in a episode of he-man from the 80s. Nothing can change and everything must stay the same by the end. If there is a change we must change it back.


Dr doom--after 40 years of the same story over and over and overusing him to the point people are sick of him they change it up. Doom gets a much needed change. They fix his face and make him a "anti hero". He made ties with the fantastic four also and can grow as a character. Can't have that. Bad guy again right away throwing away all that character growth.


Galactus--After the 200th story of him wanting to eat the earth they did something new and fresh with him! They turned him good. Can't have that! Back to status quo by a year.

Sandman--Turned good and grew as a hero even joining the avengers! Can't have that. Mind control (how lazy can you get! Also why has the thing not cured him yet? They have the cure and have used it twice!)

Spider-man--Gets married and grows as a hero. New stories can be told without spidey "not having money" for the 2000th time. Can't have that! It's magic and spideys acting like a 10 years old again. (isn't that what ultimate Spider-Man was for?)

Torch--Marries and grows as a hero. Stops acting like a child. Can't have that. Wife's a skrull and he turns back into a ten year old again flushing years of growth.

Old man logan and female wolverine--Nope bring the old one back.


It's like marvel is to scared to grow it's heroes. Magneto turned good? Nope we want him as a bad guy again. Is marvel (and dc with the batman wedding) just scared to change? When they do change something it's undone after a few years and they "return to staus quo."

If hawkeye and wanda were new bad guys they would never stayed as heroes today. They would have turned bad again!


And marvel wonders why they are getting beat by manga and young reader books in sales. How long before the new X-Men titles go back to what they were?


Is this starting to be a problem or is everything still fine with marvel never letting heroes or bad guys grow?


What do you guys think? Is it really nothing or is it starting to be a problem for marvel?

Change is a funny thing. Sometimes people like it and sometimes they don't. Should Ben Reily have stayed Spider-Man while Peter retired with Mary Jane and walked off into the sunset? Should Steve had stayed dead so Bucky could take up the mantle of Captain America? Should Jane Foster have stayed Thor? Should the Super Hero Regustration Act and the Initiative have remained the status quo of the marvel universe? Some might say yes and some might say no, depending on whether or not they liked it.

But ultimately I think the return to status quo is the way to go. It's just how this particular genre works, and if that turns people off then they probably should read manga or whatever. I think at this point, outside new readers comic book readers sort of know that's the way it is.

[charliehustle415]

Change is a funny thing. Sometimes people like it and sometimes they don't. Should Ben Reily have stayed Spider-Man while Peter retired with Mary Jane and walked off into the sunset? Should Steve had stayed dead so Bucky could take up the mantle of Captain America? Should Jane Foster have stayed Thor? Should the Super Hero Regustration Act and the Initiative have remained the status quo of the marvel universe? Some might say yes and some might say no, depending on whether or not they liked it.

But ultimately I think the return to status quo is the way to go. It's just how this particular genre works, and if that turns people off then they probably should read manga or whatever. I think at this point, outside new readers comic book readers sort of know that's the way it is.

If that's the case then there shouldn't be continuity, that would solve everything.

We can have classic heroes with the classic status quo and amazing writers. They could write whatever they want and end it on their own terms and once they do another writer can write their version with the same classic status quo.

[XPac]

If that's the case then there shouldn't be continuity, that would solve everything.

We can have classic heroes with the classic status quo and amazing writers. They could write whatever they want and end it on their own terms and once they do another writer can write their version with the same classic status quo.

Continuity matters to a lot of readers, and frankly a lot of writers. If we see something in the present book which conflicts with issue #234 we go online and complain about it. Comic book readers (and sci-fi fans in general) aren't very forgiving in this regard.

THat's not to say that retcons don't happen ... they do. Continuity needs to be fluid, but it can't just not exist. Many readers just wouldn't accept that. Again, that's just the nature of the genre.

[Holt]

It's a problem modern comics had in general. You can't smash the status quo every 10 months for a sales boost since doing so ensures the change will have no emotional weight.

[charliehustle415]

Continuity matters to a lot of readers, and frankly a lot of writers. If we see something in the present book which conflicts with issue #234 we go online and complain about it. Comic book readers (and sci-fi fans in general) aren't very forgiving in this regard.

THat's not to say that retcons don't happen ... they do. Continuity needs to be fluid, but it can't just not exist. Many readers just wouldn't accept that. Again, that's just the nature of the genre.

I think you hit the nail on the head: fluidity

However, a lot of fans want it to be rigid i.e. a beginning, a middle, and an end. We get the beginning and the middle and when we get close to the end the status quo changes so much that the reset button gets hit and we are back at the beginning

Let's take the most famous case: Spider-Man

We had a beginning that starts with Stan, we had decades of the middle, and we even came close to an end with Peter & MJ together but it all went to shit because in Marvel's eyes that is a end that cannot allow the character to continue, so they literally made a deal with the devil to reset everything.

A recent example is Thor

Ragnarok happened he got reset and brought back by JMS, he had an amazing arc where he went through trials and tribulations and Aaron is literally writing Thor's final story and in January the reset button is going to be hit again.

It's a problem modern comics had in general. You can't smash the status quo every 10 months for a sales boost since doing so ensures the change will have no emotional weight.

I think this is why it feels so old hat and contrived

[JKtheMac]

If that's the case then there shouldn't be continuity, that would solve everything.

We can have classic heroes with the classic status quo and amazing writers. They could write whatever they want and end it on their own terms and once they do another writer can write their version with the same classic status quo.

Well that is kind of what we have. Writers can indeed write what they want within a quite broad latitude, and in general the very next writer will tend to do their own thing with variable and often cursory nods to previous continuity. I don’t see why that’s a problem. It has been the same for decades.

It is notable however how few examples the OP uses before reaching for the Spider-Man marriage. The last thing we need is another thread about that.

[dkrook]

Well that is kind of what we have. Writers can indeed write what they want within a quite broad latitude, and in general the very next writer will tend to do their own thing with variable and often cursory nods to previous continuity. I don’t see why that’s a problem. It has been the same for decades.

It is notable however how few examples the OP uses before reaching for the Spider-Man marriage. The last thing we need is another thread about that.

This mentality is what's killing books to a certain degree. How many times are you going to shuffle around the same Wolverine, or Captain America fighting the same villains. Even if you consider what's been done with Batman at DC where they mixing in interdimensional villains and characters. Yeah it can work, but now he's taking over other themes and genres that many other characters occupy. All just to keep Bruce Wayne/Batman relevant???? Dammit just let writers and creators make new, or use other characters in the catalogue.

[PCN24454]

This mentality is what's killing books to a certain degree. How many times are you going to shuffle around the same Wolverine, or Captain America fighting the same villains. Even if you consider what's been done with Batman at DC where they mixing in interdimensional villains and characters. Yeah it can work, but now he's taking over other themes and genres that many other characters occupy. All just to keep Bruce Wayne/Batman relevant???? Dammit just let writers and creators make new, or use other characters in the catalogue.

Fandoms are tsundere. It’s a bad habit.

[charliehustle415]

Well that is kind of what we have. Writers can indeed write what they want within a quite broad latitude, and in general the very next writer will tend to do their own thing with variable and often cursory nods to previous continuity. I don’t see why that’s a problem. It has been the same for decades.

It is notable however how few examples the OP uses before reaching for the Spider-Man marriage. The last thing we need is another thread about that.

Up until they have to be part of continuity because of some event or editorial mandate.

Think about how JMS left Thor because of this or when J. H. Williams III left Batwoman because heroes can't be married or when Morrison couldn't use Stephanie brown or when Marvel brought back Magneto and so on and so forth.

[jackolover]

If that's the case then there shouldn't be continuity, that would solve everything.

We can have classic heroes with the classic status quo and amazing writers. They could write whatever they want and end it on their own terms and once they do another writer can write their version with the same classic status quo.

I suppose they could relegate OMD to an Alternate Universe, much like J.J.Abrams’ Spider-Man. Same with Initiative, Bucky or Sam as Cap, and Jane as Thor. But then you have to wonder how long these stories can last if the status quo heroes are still there in the 616? The MC2 Spider girl only lasted a certain time and then she lost her book. And then you have to wonder how do you do the transition from married Spider-Man to BND and run them side by side? Do you do BND for a few issues, then quickly release more married Peter and MJ stories, and say, “That was a strange dream?”, then let the dream BND stuff still come out?

[Ultimate Captain America]

You forgot the White Queen. She was turned into a hero, had a romace with Cyclops more interesting than Jean's, but then returned to "the White Queen welcomes you to die!" mode

[Daedra]

You forgot the White Queen. She was turned into a hero, had a romace with Cyclops more interesting than Jean's, but then returned to "the White Queen welcomes you to die!" mode

debatable, got boring faster than the former one once the shock value was fully expended.

[9th.]

So Ock is evil again?