Scorsese explains why he thinks Marvel movies aren't cinema

[Theleviathan]

YUP talk about formula.

Joker wasn't even original enough to be called a formula movie. Entertaining as hell, I enjoyed it, but it was a straight up remake.

I'm not "offended" by his comments, I just think they're mostly baseless.

[CliffHanger2]

Joker wasn't even original enough to be called a formula movie. Entertaining as hell, I enjoyed it, but it was a straight up remake.

I'm not "offended" by his comments, I just think they're mostly baseless.

You know what? The movie is very derivative I haven't seen King of comedy but ppl keep bringing it up in regards to this movie. But yeah I don't think MCU movies are above criticism. It's just most of what I hear is baseless or really bias. Much like Scorsese's comments.

[Beaddle]

John Wayn westerns may be a good comparison to the MCU.

Wayne made a lot of westerns. Some of them weren't good. If you just saw a random selection, you might think his popularity highlighted a lack of creativity in Hollywood.

If you saw Stagecoarch, Red River and the Searchers, you'd recognize that he was hitting heights in westerns most actors couldn't reach.

He's probably wrong on this, but it does mark a difference in types of films.

It's an argument about series VS sequel.

In a series the order in which the films occur don't really matter, and nothing changes for the characters. A sequel leaves characters in a very different place at the end than at the beginning.

Granted, this was probably a distinction in an older era, as recent films generally feature greater character progression in franchises.

That's more about medium rather than genre, although both arguments suck.

Disney's making a lot of money and getting some great reviews with the MCU.

It is worth noting that there have been so many MCU films and not one bomb, critically or financially.

These films have a very high floor in terms of quality, especially when compared to similar fare from DC (Justice League, The Suicide Squad), Sony (Venom, Amazing Spider-Man 2) or Fox (F4NTASTIC, Dark Phoenix)

He said he's tried to watch them a few times, so I'm guessing he's seen a few.

That has been the standard argument for MCU. they make money, they get good reviews but all of this is tainted and does not have any merit anymore. How long have critics protected MCU movies? their cinematic universe concept has been a goldmine but it has cost marvel quality, again, the question I have asked for the 500th time. Why hasn't this argument worked for Disney star wars and Disney MCU Spiderman, maybe you can tell us why since you are a mod for the Spiderman forums.

[Beaddle]

Scorsese hasn't even watched them, and again he's talking about big-budget blockbusters in general,

Big blockbuster in general has been around since the 70s. they were not bothering Scorsese until now. here is a video of scorsese winning an Oscar. who is giving him the award. Lucas and Spielberg. two blockbuster kings + Coppola.



blockbusters are too fake and soulless today and one franchise defines that. that is the MCU and maybe star wars that Iger has admitted they have over done it , so they want to pull back and make less star wars movies. that should apply to mcu a lot more but Disney now wants 4 mcu films a year because Disney knows people have been too seduced by the cinematic universe concept, the ultimate blockbuster.

When Lucas made star wars a blockbuster in the late 70s. it was still his own vision and personal art he brought to life. Lucas said star wars characters were his kids. the blockbusters now like mcu and star wars are not kids to the directors or writers they are artificial products machined by disney.

how many times does that need to be said and pointed out before you stop protecting and trying to say superhero films shouldn't be colorful and fun?

Where did scorsese get the theme park idea? theme parks are usually colourful and fun but superhero stories have evolved. marvel stories in the last 40 years have not been colourful and fun, marvel comics are serious and darker and dramatic than what we see in the mcu. they are also grounded.

please how were movies like Logan, X2, DOFP , Spiderman 1 and 2 all were successful? how was daredevil on Netflix successful? are they not marvel characters too in movies. why is it only mcu that is about colors and fun? not the other marvel movies not in the mcu. this is because Disney turned mcu to theme park like movies and with that the story and content has suffered, which goes back to the first scorsese complaint about marvel when he said, the movies are not about characters or any kind of legit writing.

In Scorsese list of 1000 favourite movies. Spiderman 2002 came in at 897. In 2002, spiderman was the biggest superhero blockbuster at that time. scorsese was not complaining about it.

[Midvillian1322]

That has been the standard argument for MCU. they make money, they get good reviews but all of this is tainted and does not have any merit anymore. How long have critics protected MCU movies? their cinematic universe concept has been a goldmine but it has cost marvel quality, again, the question I have asked for the 500th time. Why hasn't this argument worked for Disney star wars and Disney MCU Spiderman, maybe you can tell us why since you are a mod for the Spiderman forums.

What are u even talking about? What hasnt worked for MCU spiderman? Hes as popular as ever and coming off his biggest movie. And you say things lack merit but what you mean to say is they lack Merit to you,. You said the Oscar's lost all merit and was a joke because Black Panther won a bunch of Oscar's and was nominated for Best picture. But now your ranting about how Joker need to get an Oscar. Either things have merit or they dont.

As far as STAR wars you got different people running that and TLJ was a very controversial movie, personally I found it insanely boring. Not sure what the point your even trying to make is though.

[Beaddle]

What are u even talking about? What hasnt worked for MCU spiderman? Hes as popular as ever and coming off his biggest movie. And you say things lack merit but what you mean to say is they lack Merit to you,

MCU Spiderman is terrible compared to the original Raimi trilogy.

As far as STAR wars you got different people running that and TLJ was a very controversial movie, personally I found it insanely boring. Not sure what the point your even trying to make is though.

People are too informed about star wars to buy into the Disney formula blockbuster machine. to an extent is the same with marvel. many people know this mcu movies are more Disney stories than marvel stories. Like I said, star wars was Lucas children.Lucas called them his kids. now they are slaves to disney like Lucas said. of course the Disney star wars is controversial just like slavery was 250 years ago

[Starter Set]

It’s not going to be popular on here, but he didn’t say anything wrong. It’s okay to like McDonald’s but don’t get mad when someone doesn’t want it because it’s fast food.

Indeed.

Cinema in America has nothing to say nowadays. About anything.

It's just entertainment, nothing more. Haven't seen movies that empty on all level save for action since the 80's.

[Marvelgirl]

Joker wasn't even original enough to be called a formula movie. Entertaining as hell, I enjoyed it, but it was a straight up remake.

I'm not "offended" by his comments, I just think they're mostly baseless.

Baseless on what? Martin Scorsese shot the hole in a one. MCU movies are an embarrassment to cinema in every shape or form.

What is more baseless than a movie with 96% CGI of mediocrity grossing 2 billion dollars.

[PwrdOn]

It's a bit silly to claim that Disney somehow dumbed down Marvel and Star Wars, as if there was anything to dumb down in the first place. The MCU is pretty much as close as you're going to get to direct adaptations of the comics to film, they really embraced the source material and made films that would appeal to comic book geeks, in contrast to previous attempts at making comic book movies which were largely ashamed of their origins and tried to be more grounded and realistic for the sake of mainstream audiences. The fact that they come off as fairly bland and repetitive is just a reflection of the fact that most comic storylines are bland and repetitive. Particularly these days as the focus has shifted toward these big crossovers centered around packing in as many characters possible in an epic battle to save the universe from whatever, you can't say that the Avengers films haven't executed that formula damn near to perfection.

The problem these days is that so much of the media landscape is centered around nostalgia for stuff that we grew up enjoying, and while that's fine in measured doses, it becomes problematic when we start expecting more from our entertainment than what it's realistically capable of delivering. Marvel comics were always meant to be cheap, disposable entertainment for kids, sure there have been times when they've bucked that image to tell deeper and more controversial stories, but in most of those cases that was the result of writers basically going rogue and ignoring the publisher's wishes, which is never sustainable because the company relies on its brand image to push product far more than the quality of the individual stories. And from the beginning, Marvel was always laser focused on getting their stories adapted into movies. The goal was always to sell out, it's just that until recently nobody was interested in buying.

[Beaddle]

It's a bit silly to claim that Disney somehow dumbed down Marvel and Star Wars, as if there was anything to dumb down in the first place. The MCU is pretty much as close as you're going to get to direct adaptations of the comics to film,.

Far from it. they are the farthest not the closest. Do many of you even known marvel is more grounded and darker than DC?

Marvel comics were always meant to be cheap, disposable entertainment for kids, .

huh?


No. JUST NO. Marvel is now meant to be cheap disposable entertainment for kids because that is what Disney is doing with it and their shill media are brainwashing people to think so. As a fan of marvel, I am offended by that and saddened that you actually think so since I still read marvel comics and I am not a kid.

But at the same time, I do feel validated when I said months back MCU movies are too immature but this does not apply to all of marvel. Hence, why the Sony and Fox good marvel films are so important right now.

[Theleviathan]

Baseless on what? Martin Scorsese shot the hole in a one. MCU movies are an embarrassment to cinema in every shape or form.

What is more baseless than a movie with 96% CGI of mediocrity grossing 2 billion dollars.

It's baseless because it doesn't have much of an argument. Seriously...what does he want theaters to do? Put up less screens of what people are paying for so they can pack their available space with movies that appease you or Mr. Scorsese or Joe Movie Snob?

The movie going audience, for a variety of reasons, isn't paying to see flicks like his. I don't either. I'll wait until I can catch it for nothing. That's just the age we live in, so an argument on "Why can't 2019 be 1969" is baseless and absurd.

[PwrdOn]

Far from it. they are the farthest not the closest. Do many of you even known marvel is more grounded and darker than DC?




huh?


No. JUST NO. Marvel is now meant to be cheap disposable entertainment for kids because that is what Disney is doing with it and their shill media are brainwashing people to think so. As a fan of marvel, I am offended by that and saddened that you actually think so since I still read marvel comics and I am not a kid.

But at the same time, I do feel validated when I said months back MCU movies are too immature but this does not apply to all of marvel. Hence, why the Sony and Fox good marvel films are so important right now.

Well before the MCU came along, comic book movies tried to be as dark and gritty as possible, but that was only because most of those directors hated comics and wanted to distance their films from the source material as much as possible. And it's fine if you prefer that type of film, but the public has mostly moved on from that. The Nolan Batman films were hailed at these amazing artistic achievements at the time, but nowadays I think most people recognize how over the top they were and they're mostly just a source of memes now, and DC's attempts to recreate that have not gone well, to say the least.

[Kirby101]

James Bond. nuff said.

[Jokerz79]

To claim blockbusters aren't cinema is ridiculous it's be like saying the Wizard of Oz, Irwin Allen Films, or even Star Wars especially the Prequels if CGI is an issue wasn't Cinema.

I want to point out the great director Frank Capra thought New Hollywood wasn't "Cinema" and just smut destroying the medium. He was a great director but by then an old man out of touch and now Scorsese, Coppola, and Spielberg are the age he was then and sound the same. Those men made some of my favorite films but they're wrong just wrong sorry and a bit hypocritical IMO and here's why.

Scorsese for half his career has basically told the same story about the life of an criminal while done masterfully it also isn't a diverse history and due to the stories he chooses to tell I never care for his characters just find their stories entertaining.

Coppola made arguably the greatest two film story in history with Godfather and Godfather II then 20 years later ended on a sour note he also made Jack and while funny he considers that more "Cinema" than an MCU film. GTFOH

Spielberg is the real irony I went to film school and film snobs say about him the same things they say about Marvel too Commercial, too much into happy endings, never takes risk, truth outside of his historical films he gets the same damn criticism.

I also think a lot of people went to the Zack Snyder school of "Dark and Gritty" and don't understand what Dark and Gritty really is.

[AnakinFlair]

To claim blockbusters aren't cinema is ridiculous it's be like saying the Wizard of Oz, Irwin Allen Films, or even Star Wars especially the Prequels if CGI is an issue wasn't Cinema.

Coppola made arguably the greatest two film story in history with Godfather and Godfather II then 20 years later ended on a sour note he also made Jack and while funny he considers that more "Cinema" than an MCU film. GTFOH

Spielberg is the real irony I went to film school and film snobs say about him the same things they say about Marvel too Commercial, too much into happy endings, never takes risk, truth outside of his historical films he gets the same damn criticism.

For Coppola, I'd also throw in Apocalypse Now as one of the greatest films.

As for Spielberg, him complaining about blockbusters is ironic considering he pretty much created the summer blockbuster with Jaws.