Scorsese explains why he thinks Marvel movies aren't cinema

[CliffHanger2]

Yeah, it'd be naïve to think that he's not at least this media savvy at this point.

Really he had to expect some type of reaction.

[Blind Wedjat]

Scorsese said it once and then tried to soften it (after he already was pretty soft in his initial answer).

Gunn came out crying about how sad he was that a filmmaker he liked was dismissing his films. Igor threw a hissyfit and tried to race bait with Black Panther. Feige went on a monologue about how his films were brave because he had Captain America and Iron Man fight each other. Marvel fans freaked out and can’t let it go.

The only person with any real sense was RDJ who basically ignored it (he’s also the most tied to old Hollywood of anyone who gave their opinion on this).

Scorsese didn’t say anything that hasn’t been said before. It’s ridiculous to call him thin skinned or jealous. The only difference again is that unlike most people who have said it, Scorsese’s opinion carries weight in the film industry. If he spoke glowingly of them, it would have been used as an example of a prestige filmmaker giving them validity. Because it was negative it’s rubbing them all the wrong way.

You're intentionally overstating the reactions from Marvel. All Gunn did was post his response on Instagram (yes it was emotional but that is his right). Iger did not race bait at all (didn't even mention race, which Chadwick alluded to). Feige (like Scorsese) was asked a question and responded to it. You talk about a monologue, Scorsese is the one that wrote an entire op-ed.

You talk about Marvel fans being unable to let things go when Scorsese's the one who's chosen to respond to this thing five times after his initial statement. What was stopping Scorsese from saying "No comment. I said what I said" the second, third, fourth, and fifth time he was asked? If he said what he said, why did he need to write an op-ed in the NYT to 'explain' himself. Hell every headline about Scorsese has been about his opinion about Marvel movies instead of The Irishman.

Nobody needed Scorsese to say Marvel movies are great. Nobody needed Scorsese to explain his comment afterwards. We all got it. It was up to him whether or not this thing continued or not. He chose to keep talking about. And people can make of that what they will.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Seriously imagine Scorsese turning down an action figure/video game deal for Good Fellas . "It's about art but how much do you think we could make?" gtfo.lol.

Scorsese did in fact do that with Taxi Driver. He and screenwriter Paul Schrader intervened numerous times to shut down attempts to do a sequel or video-game adaptation.

https://www.indiewire.com/2014/02/pa...le-idea-88953/

Come at Scorsese...best not miss.

This fear of superhero movies crowding out every other genre is really unfounded. I mean you really think that's possible?

It happened to comics. In the 50s, the biggest comics in America was Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck comics. Bigger than Superman in the period of its biggest sales. EC Comics and MAD magazine were also at their height. Then it ended and non-superhero comics have become niche and obscure, confined to graphic novels shelves and so on. It's not completely gone but it's a huge comedown. And when people talk about the Golden Age of Comics, the period when comics sold most, were read most, and were overall at their best, it's a period before superheroes became the only game in town.

So yeah it happened in comics, it can definitely happen in the movies. Neil Gaiman himself said on twitter that what Scorsese said is what he and Moore and others were saying in the '80s:
https://twitter.com/neilhimself/stat...63117152993280

[Midvillian1322]

I dont think Scorsese is jelous but I do think hes frustrated that Tentpole block busters are leaving very little room in Theaters for smaller films. And to someone older like Martin I think he might see Theaters as being inherently better then stuff like Netflix. But the idea hes jelous seems silly to me. But the fact is he said Films these people made arent Art( Which is a ridiculous statment to make. My 5 year old drew me a picture with Colored Pencils yesterday and its Art to me. It's all subjective). And yet everyone from the MCU has responded in a less offensive way. Peolple are claiming Chadwick Boseman was race baiting on here. No he stated a valid opinion in a way more respectful then someone calling his work not art. He doesnt know if Martin saw Black Panther and if he did and still didnt get anything from it. Well it might be cultural or Generational. Scarlett said the same thing basicaly calling Scorsese Old Fasnhioned.

I'm still at a loss for why this is such big news. As other have Said Spielbergs favorite comicbook movie is GOTG. Tarentino loves the MCU and literaly had a binge party to watch all movies before Endgames release. I've even heard certain posters quote Zach synder saying Marvel is flavor of the week but leave out where he says he loves all the Avengers movies and is there opening weekend. Tons of actors like al Pacino who has talked about How much he enjoyed Gurdians of the Galaxy. I wont mention Robert Redfords,Sam Jackson or Anthony Hopkins becuase some will say they have to say nice things since they were in the movies. I mean those are their opinions I'm lost as to why that somehow can be used by people to factually state something is or isnt art. That's they're opinion, you have yours. The General audience has theirs and its pretty overwhelmingly on one side.

I do think Spielberg is right that like westerns CBMs will die down eventually. But like Westerns they will never completely die.

[CliffHanger2]

Scorsese did in fact do that with Taxi Driver. He and screenwriter Paul Schrader intervened numerous times to shut down attempts to do a sequel or video-game adaptation.

https://www.indiewire.com/2014/02/pa...le-idea-88953/

Come at Scorsese...best not miss.

https://twitter.com/neilhimself/stat...63117152993280

Welp mighta missed with the videogame(even tho i did say goodfellas) but it's a double tap with the figs...

[jetengine]

Scorsese did in fact do that with Taxi Driver. He and screenwriter Paul Schrader intervened numerous times to shut down attempts to do a sequel or video-game adaptation.

https://www.indiewire.com/2014/02/pa...le-idea-88953/

Come at Scorsese...best not miss.



It happened to comics. In the 50s, the biggest comics in America was Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck comics. Bigger than Superman in the period of its biggest sales. EC Comics and MAD magazine were also at their height. Then it ended and non-superhero comics have become niche and obscure, confined to graphic novels shelves and so on. It's not completely gone but it's a huge comedown. And when people talk about the Golden Age of Comics, the period when comics sold most, were read most, and were overall at their best, it's a period before superheroes became the only game in town.

So yeah it happened in comics, it can definitely happen in the movies. Neil Gaiman himself said on twitter that what Scorsese said is what he and Moore and others were saying in the '80s:
https://twitter.com/neilhimself/stat...63117152993280

Gaimans being a bit dense and possibly trolly in his account frankly. Scorsese clearly says their not cinema and uses his and other movies as an example of artistic cinema. When others point that out his only reply is "Have you read the article"

[phonogram12]

And to someone older like Martin I think he might see Theaters as being inherently better then stuff like Netflix.

I agree with all of your post, but especially with the above quote. He is buddies with Spielberg, after all (and this is coming from someone who LOVES Spielberg).

I definitely think it's a generational thing.

[Pinsir]

Based Scorsese kinopilling the normies...Yes, MCU films are trash; they're poorly filmed, poorly acted, substance-less flicks that will thankfully be forgotten in a few years.

[phonogram12]

Welp mighta missed with the videogame(even tho i did say goodfellas) but it's a double tap with the figs...

Ha! Indeed!

[Pinsir]

So yeah it happened in comics, it can definitely happen in the movies. Neil Gaiman himself said on twitter that what Scorsese said is what he and Moore and others were saying in the '80s:
https://twitter.com/neilhimself/stat...63117152993280

I think the point that often never gets said regarding the MCU is that not only are they bad films, they are bad comic book stories too. The MCU will never be able to replicate the epic scale of Walt Simonson's Thor run, a comic book that proved to me the medium had value and was worth reading, so instead they turned him into a joke character, a dabbing fool. Fiege has no respect for comics, film or art.

[phonogram12]

Feige (like Scorsese) was asked a question and responded to it. You talk about a monologue, Scorsese is the one that wrote an entire op-ed.

You talk about Marvel fans being unable to let things go when Scorsese's the one who's chosen to respond to this thing five times after his initial statement. What was stopping Scorsese from saying "No comment. I said what I said" the second, third, fourth, and fifth time he was asked? If he said what he said, why did he need to write an op-ed in the NYT to 'explain' himself. Hell every headline about Scorsese has been about his opinion about Marvel movies instead of The Irishman.

Which probably really burns his britches, but he's probably still hoping this will all help promote the movie nobody's asking him about on a streaming service he probably feels is beneath him.

[WebLurker]

Come at Scorsese...best not miss.

Frankly, I don't think Marvel Studios has anything to worry about from a noted filmmaker naysaying them. Their success speaks for itself, and I'm going to bet that it'll last for some time, like how we're still watching Star Wars, Jurassic Park, and other such blockbuster franchises years after the fact.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think the point that often never gets said regarding the MCU is that not only are they bad films, they are bad comic book stories too. The MCU will never be able to replicate the epic scale of Walt Simonson's Thor run, a comic book that proved to me the medium had value and was worth reading, so instead they turned him into a joke character, a dabbing fool. Fiege has no respect for comics, film or art.

Not sure about Feige. It’s possible for someone to be a fan of comics and care about art and still get it wrong. Just loving something doesn’t mean you are going to be good.

But yeah. I think the MCU are in a lot of cases watering down the weirdness and energy of the comics which something like ITSV has. It’s always one kind of humor and limited approach go characterisation. Always quips and snarks and so on. Spider-Man is a lame caricature of himself.

[Scott Taylor]

Eh, if you take away the level of sentimentality in his comments there is a core of truth present. The MCU is about form over substance. They are very comic-bookey, in other words, in every sense of the word as a pejorative.

You simply never get the big moments of the great directors in these films, to make you think or consider anything philosophical or deeply meaningful. To put it in terms that are, sadly, familiar considering the season - the MCU films are basically like Hallmark Channel Christmas movies for a broader audience but mostly for guys. To put it in 1980s teen film terms, they are Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, not the Breakfast Club.

[Midvillian1322]

Eh, if you take away the level of sentimentality in his comments there is a core of truth present. The MCU is about form over substance. They are very comic-bookey, in other words, in every sense of the word as a pejorative.

You simply never get the big moments of the great directors in these films, to make you think or consider anything philosophical or deeply meaningful. To put it in terms that are, sadly, familiar considering the season - the MCU films are basically like Hallmark Channel Christmas movies for a broader audience but mostly for guys. To put it in 1980s teen film terms, they are Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, not the Breakfast Club.

See I hate when People say that. Two easiest example from the MCU of Deeper themes is Guardians of the Galaxy and Black Panther. Both have run of the mill surface themes Gotg has family and Friendship etc.. and Black Panther Opression and Isloationism. But none of those are the core of those movies . Guardians is about Abuse and Trauma and how it shapes us. Groots the only one exempt because we dont know his childhood but even supporting chatacters like Yondu and Mantis even apply. Drax also was an adult when his trauma happened so hes an outlier since its childhood trauma for most every other character. Black panther at its core is about Killmonger and Tchalla. Killmonger being a stand in for the African Ameican experience and Tchalla for Black excellence. Ive mentioned this mutiple times on this thread so I wont waste anyones time elaborating further without cause.

Defiently plenty of the MCU movies arent made with deep philosophic themes underlining the narratives but even the ones that dont Work because instead of getting you invested in the Plot they get you infested in the Hero. Which is smart cause now they know if they make a reasonably well made movie your willing to take that ride becuase you love Thor or Ironman or Antman... whoever you name it. Which in of itself is Art and not easy. But painting the entire MCU with a broad brush is silly. Also Hallmark movies are cheap and poorly acted. Even Scorsese admitted these movies are well Made. That comparison isnt fair.