Scorsese explains why he thinks Marvel movies aren't cinema

[Midvillian1322]

Except many people who like comics movies are much aware marvel movies are just the basic form of what comic movies can be.


Let's just say, Scorsese and his buddies can do more harm than rotten tomatoes.

Both statements are suspect. Depends what you mean by Many. If by Many you mean a insignificant number when compared to the MCU fan base, then sure


And people under a certain age who arent movie buffs dont give two shits what Coppola or Martin think about these films or even know anything about them. Then theres a bunch of people who respect them as directors but just think they are old dudes yelling to get off they're porch.

None of this gonna have any impact except maybe open a dialogue about Block Busters squeezing Smaller movies out. Which is what Martin is talking about he said he hasnt even seen most the Marvel movies. Hes just talking about big budget Block busters in general. Marvel just happens to be the biggest franchise out right now.

[Joker]

He was directly asked about MARVEL movies.

[Beaddle]

Both statements are suspect. Depends what you mean by Many. If by Many you mean a insignificant number

Well I guess it is easy to criticise the ''many'' people. who grew up in a era of no cinematic gigantic blockbusters movies or worse, Disney manufacturing products and pretending they are movies. Am glad, scorsese directly pointed that out. the soulless manufacturing aspect of marvel. I said it here until I was blue to the face but now that scorsese is saying it too, people are listening or are just having more confident to say it. these many people are now to thank for Joker's success. these are also the many people that never wanted Disney to buy fox.

And people under a certain age who arent movie buffs dont give two shits what Coppola or Martin think about these films or even know anything about them. Then theres a bunch of people who respect them as directors but just think they are old dudes yelling to get off they're porch.

People , Scorsese and his friends, who make movies criticising movies.lol , I have got to admit, that sound more interesting than critics today, Scorsese's criticism of marvel and is more thoughtful and sensible than these critics who are praising mcu because they are fun.

None of this gonna have any impact except maybe open a dialogue about Block Busters squeezing Smaller movies out. Which is what Martin is talking about he said he hasnt even seen most the Marvel movies. Hes just talking about big budget Block busters in general. Marvel just happens to be the biggest franchise out right

When scorsese won his Oscar, I wonder what he thought about Spielberg and Lucas giving him the award since these two men are the king of blockbusters and franchises. this was in 2009, so MCU was not around then. blockbusters are not bad, the concept is not evil but I think it is safe to say Marvel and Disney in particular have turned a lot of people off or now represent a major negative aspect of Blockbusters.

I will ask the OP, why is it only when Scorsese is saying this **** that everyone is now losing their minds.

[Beaddle]

He was directly asked about MARVEL movies.

I think he has a vendetta towards marvel. I have seen directors slam marvel in the past but Scorsese cannot just seem to shut up. It's been a month and he has talked about how he dislikes marvel like 4 times, even going as far as to do an OP-ED this week. If he has his way, he will ban marvel movies.

Of all his criticism, I think the one that matters most is when he called out how young people are getting indoctrinated with this gigantic marvel cinematic movies. thinking they are real cinema or the best of what superhero films can be when they are not and never will be as long as Disney continues to derail real marvel stories in marvel movies.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...cinema-1248997
Martin Scorsese Laments "Young People's" Understanding of Cinema, Shoots Down Question on Lack of Female Characters

[thwhtGuardian]

Well I guess it is easy to criticise the ''many'' people. who grew up in a era of no cinematic gigantic blockbusters movies or worse, Disney manufacturing products and pretending they are movies. Am glad, scorsese directly pointed that out. the soulless manufacturing aspect of marvel. I said it here until I was blue to the face but now that scorsese is saying it too, people are listening or are just having more confident to say it. I think this people are now to thank for Joker's success. these are also the many people that never wanted Disney to buy fox.



People , Scorsese and his friends, who make movies criticising movies.lol , I have got to admit, that sound more interesting than critics today, Scorsese has given 4 rants of his dislike for marvel and every one is more thoughtful and more sensible than these critics who are praising mcu because they are fun.


When scorsese won his Oscar, I wonder what he thought about Spielberg and Lucas giving him the award since these two men are the king of blockbusters and franchises. blockbusters are not bad, the concept is not bad but I think it is safe to say Marvel and Disney in particular have turned a lot of people off or now represent a major negative aspect of Blockbusters.

I will ask the OP, why is it only when Scorsese is saying this **** that everyone is now losing their minds.

And to that I'll say it's no different than how the studios have done genre films in the past. People like Westerns? Quick, make a ton! Teenagers are just eating up that slasher film? Let's flood the market! Actor X is America's sweet heart? Let's put out five movies with him in it!

It's the way it's always been from the very start and the reason why is simple: because it's a business where maximizing profits is key.

[Theleviathan]

Scorsese: "Marvel movies are cookie cutters stuffing the theater"

Scorsese: "People should come see my 142nd gangster movie starring the same actors in a world where women don't exist"

You want to know why theaters are packing their screens with popcorn blockbusters? Because that's the only thing people are willing to pay to see in a theater any more. Times change.

[CliffHanger2]

Funny thing Scorcese is blaming Marvel but it was Netflix who nixed an extended theater run for his new movie. A deal he agreed to.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

It’s not going to be popular on here, but he didn’t say anything wrong. It’s okay to like McDonald’s but don’t get mad when someone doesn’t want it because it’s fast food.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

What is funny is these old men playing gatekeepers to what "real cinema" is are all forgetting the directors of the 40's through the 60's probably said the same things about them when they were in their heyday in the 70's and 80's. I'm sure to them all the sex, graphic violence and swearing was not "real cinema" at the time either and they just thought it was shock for shock sake. In every aspect of entertainment there comes a time when your are just out of touch because of your age and that is what these cranky old men are. Out of touch.

Plus blockbusters are the only thing keeping theaters alive. That is just the stone cold truth. It is not like if the blockbusters went away all the theaters would suddenly being showing "real" cinema. They would close down. The whole reason he had to go to Netflix in the first place was because no studio would back the Irishman because they knew people don't go and pay 15-20 bucks for movies like that anymore in the theaters when they can just watch it at home

That’s not really true. Scorsese was loved early on with films like Mean Streets and Who’s that Knocking on My Door. Then some of his big classics came out like Taxi Driver, King of Comedy and Raging Bull.

Even peers like Coppola, their real problem wasn’t getting films accepted for artistic merit. It was that they were often pushing against studio sensibilities to get projects off the ground in their vision.

It was completely different than what Marvel filmmakers go through.

Theaters wouldn’t close down, they’ve existed long before block busters and some of the vacuum would be filed. They’d mahh KKG e less Monet, but realistically blockbusters put a stranglehold on films. Theaters make very little money on major Marvel releases the first month or so

[Michael Watkins]

what an out of touch snob

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Good Fellas was a masterpiece but Scorcese hasn't done anything "totally new and unexpected" for more than 30 years if ever. If he's going by that his own films don't fit the bill."Unameable places" Like where a car trunk? lol foh….

Casino was a just as good follow up, at worst slightly inferior. Gang’s of New York and Aviator we’re we’re totally different things. Wolf of Wall Street was unique and one of the best comedy style films in recent memory. The Departed, whole not my favorite film, was one of the best at what it did and was ballsier than 99% of films that come out.

Cape Fear came out right after Goodfellas.

Can’t really agree with that statement. I’m also leaving out a lot.

[Beaddle]

Funny thing Scorcese is blaming Marvel but it was Netflix who nixed an extended theater run for his new movie. A deal he agreed to.

if you want a scorsese Netflix fight, tell scorsese to take a dig at Spielberg but Spielberg is also one of his buddies, who thinks comic movies will fade into trash cans. these directors may have differences but superhero films are like a common enemy now.

[thwhtGuardian]

It’s not going to be popular on here, but he didn’t say anything wrong. It’s okay to like McDonald’s but don’t get mad when someone doesn’t want it because it’s fast food.

If all he was stating was a personal preference that'd be fine, I don't care for most of the Marvel movies myself, I only took issue with his assertion that movies like the Marvel films are squeezing out auteur film making and that there was once some golden age where the types of films he considers to be real art were the norm and that the Marvel movies wrecked it. Neither of those assertions are true, film has been dominated by bread and circus since the start and it always will be.

On top of that it's not as if the film industry would be in a better place with out block busters. For one there would be much fewer films out there if they had to have some intrinsic artistic merit and a unique exploration of the human experience because there are much fewer writers and directors who can make those types of films...and the audience for those films are smaller so there would be less money coming in which would mean fewer films produced.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

If all he was stating was a personal preference that'd be fine, I don't care for most of the Marvel movies myself, I only took issue with his assertion that movies like the Marvel films are squeezing out auteur film making and that there was once some golden age where the types of films he considers to be real art were the norm and that the Marvel movies wrecked it. Neither of those assertions are true, film has been dominated by bread and circus since the start and it always will be.

On top of that it's not as if the film industry would be in a better place with out block busters. For one there would be much fewer films out there if they had to have some intrinsic artistic merit and a unique exploration of the human experience because there are much fewer writers and directors who can make those types of films...and the audience for those films are smaller so there would be less money coming in which would mean fewer films produced.

Here’s where I disagree with Scorsese. It’s mot squarely on Marvel films. If it was just the 3-4 Marvel films a year that would be one thing. You then generally get a Star Wars film each year. Then Disney usually has one or two other major franchise releases whether it’s a live action remake or a new animated film. Okay now we are up to 7-8 films in a year. Then Warner Brother’s release a DC IP or two a year. Then filling out the remaining you have things like the Fantastic Beasts films, Fast and the Furious, maybe a Terminator or Bond film. Very quickly it adds up. Mostly Disney but the other major studios contribute and soon you are saturated with major and minor IP driven films throughout.

You think 15 years ago Scorsese would have go to Netflix to get something like Thr Irishman off the ground. Coppola still can’t get one of his passion projects going.

Film has never been dominated in this way by major IP driven blockbuster releases at this rate. There used to be a summer season and maybe a Christmas release. Then summer started trickling into May, then April, then March.

It’s very different than it was even when I was growing up (and I’m in my 20’s).

I also would very much disagree that there were fewer films. The concept of the big summer blockbuster didn’t even get off the ground until Jaws in 75. Plenty of films were being made. You really wouldn’t have gotten guys like Scorsese and Coppola at the rate they did. A guy like Lucas never would have got a film like the original Star Wars off the ground today. You never would have gotten the era before with guys like Kazan.

This era is very different. There were popular trends and genre films, but they were a piece of the pie, not the dough

[thwhtGuardian]

Here’s where I disagree with Scorsese. It’s mot squarely on Marvel films. If it was just the 3-4 Marvel films a year that would be one thing. You then generally get a Star Wars film each year. Then Disney usually has one or two other major franchise releases whether it’s a live action remake or a new animated film. Okay now we are up to 7-8 films in a year. Then Warner Brother’s release a DC IP or two a year. Then filling out the remaining you have things like the Fantastic Beasts films, Fast and the Furious, maybe a Terminator or Bond film. Very quickly it adds up. Mostly Disney but the other major studios contribute and soon you are saturated with major and minor IP driven films throughout.

You think 15 years ago Scorsese would have go to Netflix to get something like Thr Irishman off the ground. Coppola still can’t get one of his passion projects going.

Film has never been dominated in this way by major IP driven blockbuster releases at this rate. There used to be a summer season and maybe a Christmas release. Then summer started trickling into May, then April, then March.

It’s very different than it was even when I was growing up (and I’m in my 20’s).

I also would very much disagree that there were fewer films. The concept of the big summer blockbuster didn’t even get off the ground until Jaws in 75. Plenty of films were being made. You really wouldn’t have gotten guys like Scorsese and Coppola at the rate they did. A guy like Lucas never would have got a film like the original Star Wars off the ground today. You never would have gotten the era before with guys like Kazan.

This era is very different. There were popular trends and genre films, but they were a piece of the pie, not the dough

They're still just a piece of the pie, true, it's a larger slice than before but that's due to the increasingly competitive entertainment field in which film is only one player among many. There's increasingly more demands on the audience's entertainment dollar from streaming services(and there are almost more of those every day!) the quality of TV has gone up, and video games continue to grow as well, and with that competition it means studios are under a greater pressure to perform than before which means appealing to the largest number of people they can and playing it a bit safer.

But even with block busters taking up more of the screen there is still more than enough room for other films; it's like I said there are only so many auteur writers and directors so it's not like we'd have more of those types of films if there were less block busters.

And yes, I think that even 15 years ago Scorsese may have been turned down by a major studio...it's not that uncommon a thing to happen even for a guy like him. There are literally dozens of films he's wanted to make only to be turned down over the years of his career so rather than being a sign of doom that he has to go to a different platform to get his project financed it should rather be seen as a great sign because that other platform exists and can fund a film that wouldn't have other wise been made.

And auteur films really always have been a minority, that's a flat fact. Other than a very brief period from the late 60's to early 70's profit driven studio films have always been the norm and they have always chased what ever trend was hot in order to turn out the most profit possible.