Scorsese explains why he thinks Marvel movies aren't cinema

[luprki]

Scorsese just verbalize what other top filmmakers in the industry think of Kevin Feige and the MCU.
MCU is joke in Hollywood, as far as good cinema. They see the MCU as a product with zero artistic value.

[Beaddle]

Well before the MCU came along, comic book movies tried to be as dark and gritty as possible, but that was only because most of those directors hated comics .

They were trying to escape from Batman and Robin. The only dark and gritty comic movies were X-men and Batman. Spiderman was not dark and gritty but at the same time, Raimi did not make spiderman like a Disney kids entertainment.

X-Men and batman films post 2000 never fully distanced themselves from the source material, yes Singer and Nolan desliked comics but they took what they felt were the best part of the comics and put it front and centre, for instance in xmen case as a stand in for racism and discrimination or in batman case, tackling crime with little heavy VFX and comedy.

The Nolan Batman films were hailed at these amazing artistic achievements at the time, but nowadays I think most people recognize how over the top they were and they're mostly just a source of memes now,

Nolan films are still held High, its the shill media that wants to wipe it out. Please look at how they were trying to dismiss TDK as an Oscar contender in 2008 to favour Black Panther? its the same way they have tried to wipe out the earlier spiderman, blade and xmen movies.
I think its strange how the media and critics got so obsessed with making sure comic movies are light and funny.

I think most people recognize how over the top they were and they're mostly just a source of memes now, and DC's attempts to recreate that have not gone well, to say the least.

Another media propaganda but more proof the media wanted to wipe joker out. DC is doing well right now. Joker is Bank. Matt Reeves Batman would and should be great, Wonder Woman 2 would likely make people dislike captain marvel more.

Its pro Media Marvel spin that DC is not doing well. I would want to be DC now than marvel. at least DC is not 100% manufactured and they have other great movies that is not part of the DCU.

[Beaddle]

For Coppola, I'd also throw in Apocalypse Now as one of the greatest films.

As for Spielberg, him complaining about blockbusters is ironic considering he pretty much created the summer blockbuster with Jaws.

Spielberg did. that been said, Spielberg did not abuse it like Disney is doing. Also Spielberg made blockbuster movie art. Disney makes them soulless products. Spielberg directed all his blockbusters down to the very last film shot. Disney just hires people to bring their bad formala to life. there is no comparison to both.

Spielberg was good for the blockbuster genre, Marvel not so much.

[Beaddle]

James cameron and Martin Scorsese on Hugo's 3D Special Effects


It looks bad when you compare it to a scorsese movie with special effects masterminded by Cameron. another director who has criticised MCU movies.

Cameron is even worse. he said people need to get tired of mcu and avengers.

[Blind Wedjat]

Lol @ Scorsese accusing others of making remakes when a whole lot of his filmography is based on books and two of his films are remakes of Asian cinema classics.

Lol @ Scorsese talking about Marvel movies being audience tested when he recoloured the climax of Taxi Driver to avoid an X rating.

I think everyone can see that at this point Scorsese is just doing this (or is allowed to keep doing it) for press. I do believe he means what he says, but this is like the sixth time he's reiterated this point when he didn't need to. We got it the first time. He didn't need to write this op-ed because nobody cares what he has to say. And I mean that without it being an insult: Scorsese is (sadly) just not that relevant to this generation of moviegoers, with exception of maybe Wolf of Wall Street. It's obvious this thing became what it was and continued that way because Scorsese specifically mentioned the most popular movie franchise right now and kept going on about it. Had he only said this thing once or generally spoke about blockbuster films, this story would have died down after a week.

But this isn't about comparing MCU films to Scorsese or Scorsese-type films. This isn't about which is better. I don't even think that was the aim of his claim. Scorsese seems to think that the only films that will remain the conscious of the public because they are 'real cinema' are the kind of films he makes: gritty, realistic, intense dramas either based on real events or socially/politically/culturally relevant time periods. Of course that's nonsense. Star Wars isn't based on anything real or human aside from the concept of good vs evil, and it is a cinema classic. But one can look further at films like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Night of the Living Dead, and Dawn of the Dead, The Invisible Man, Frankenstein and other classic sci-fi and horror films of the 30s, 40s and 50s that at the time of their release were not seeing as real films, but had things to say about politics, race, gender, culture and made significant strides that other 'real films' did not, and have remained in public conscious for decades because of their popularity and genre of film they were based on, and are seen as classics of cinema. The best Marvel movies are no different from these, and someone as experienced and learned as Scorsese should know this.

But then again, the man said he hasn't seen them so...

[Beaddle]

This is one of the biggest marvel problems, there is no longer constructive criticism even with so called professional critics. for instance there are people out there have said black panther, thor ragnarok, captain marvel, age of ultron having dodgy cgi is a bad argument or an opinion with zero merit to it.does not happen with other comic book movies with the same problem.

it is this type of thinking that has made marvel a joke in artistic Hollywood while blockbusters like ET, Terminator 2, Star Wars OT have stood the test of time as legit classic blockbusters.

[Midvillian1322]

MCU Spiderman is terrible compared to the original Raimi trilogy.




People are too informed about star wars to buy into the Disney formula blockbuster machine. to an extent is the same with marvel. many people know this mcu movies are more Disney stories than marvel stories. Like I said, star wars was Lucas children.Lucas called them his kids. now they are slaves to disney like Lucas said. of course the Disney star wars is controversial just like slavery was 250 years ago

You claim the Oscar's are a joke and meaningless because Black Panther got a Nom but your crying about Joker needing to get one in another thread. It's clear things are only joke when they dont agree with you.

People are too informed too what? Endgame was just the biggest movie ever, people were in the theater crying and cheering. So stop projecting your hate onto other people.

Also CGI isnt a bad thing and outside of 2 scenes from Black Panther the MCU doesnt get hit for bad CGI. It's the opposite people go in expecting quality special effects.

Look Joker was great and was a big hit. If you want more dark gritty movies that have nothing to do with comics except for a couple superficial names thrown on it. Well I bet your gonna get it. Monkey see monkey do. But you not gonna convince the vast majority of people who loves the MCU and have made it the biggest franchise that they really dont. I'm still confused on what your excuse for how beloved the MCU Is by the masses is? Brainwashing? Its really not Disney is just inflating the numbers? Or something else. You just repeat the same baseless points about it not being real art and superficial because its colorful and fun and has too much cgi.

[luprki]

I think what Scorsese is saying is not controversial. He just saying the MCU has no artistic value, which is already well known. The MCU is just a series of dumb popcorn entertainment, that is not what he would call artistic nor cinematic. He wasn’t really saying anything bad about the MCU, he was just speaking fact.

[Jokerz79]

Scorsese just verbalize what other top filmmakers in the industry think of Kevin Feige and the MCU.
MCU is joke in Hollywood, as far as good cinema. They see the MCU as a product with zero artistic value.

Then why is Hollywood been trying to copy them for 10 years?

[Powerboy]

That has been the standard argument for MCU. they make money, they get good reviews but all of this is tainted and does not have any merit anymore. How long have critics protected MCU movies? their cinematic universe concept has been a goldmine but it has cost marvel quality, again, the question I have asked for the 500th time. Why hasn't this argument worked for Disney star wars and Disney MCU Spiderman, maybe you can tell us why since you are a mod for the Spiderman forums.

If you mean some argument that they make money and that's all that matters or that they are fun and that's all that matters, one factor is that, with most of these characters, there are no previous movie versions of any significance to compare them to. With Star Wars, you have the original trilogy and a lot of people don't like the current version for various reasons. A lot of people didn't like the prequels by comparison to the original trilogy. One reviewer back when "Phantom Menace" came out said that if it were truly Episode 1, it would probably be hailed as innovative but it's not really the original Star Wars movie. Likewise, with the MCU Spider-Man, we have two comparisons and the Raimi version is definitely superior, at least the first two.

But just saying that they are tainted in spite of good reviews and massive popularity because they don't work for you isn't much of any argument either. I'm not a big fan of Thor: Ragnarok" but I cannot deny that it was exactly what it set out to be, succeeded perfectly at it and got deserved great reviews and huge success at the box office. And I didn't even like it.

As long as it keeps working, they are not going to fix it.

[Theleviathan]

I think what Scorsese is saying is not controversial. He just saying the MCU has no artistic value, which is already well known. The MCU is just a series of dumb popcorn entertainment, that is not what he would call artistic nor cinematic. He wasn’t really saying anything bad about the MCU, he was just speaking fact.

Declaring artistic value is a matter of fact is a really silly point.

[Midvillian1322]

I love movies like Good Fellas, it's one of my favorites. But if you told me I had to write an essay about the Themes and deeper meanings of GoodFellas and Black Panther. The Essay on Black Panther is gonna be much longer. Very few film makers do Dialogue as well as Scorcese. But most his movies dont move me in some deep emotional way. I dont walk away from Goodfellas or The Departed with anything except the fact I was greatly entertained for the length of the movie. As far as his comments about Human beings relating to one another. I relate way more to a CGI character like Rocket then I do with the 20 Italian gangsters hes made movies about. Marvel is also giving Indie artists a chance to make blockbusters. Ryan coogler was making indie arthouse films. James Gunn was making small weird movies prior, Tika Waititi was making Indy films and staring in Green Lantern the poor guy. Marvel studios isnt some place Art goes to die it seems to be where young upcoming artist want to be. Those 3 directors were given 200m to go make a movie that is uniquely them. Now we got directors like Chloe Zhao making eternals, Cate shortland doing BLACK widow,and Destin Daniel creston doing Shang Chi. These aren't Michale Bay. Marvel either hiring unknown directors or upcoming indy director for most of they're movies. I dont see how that's bad for art.

[Beaddle]

You claim the Oscar's are a joke and meaningless because Black Panther got a Nom but your crying about Joker needing to get one in another thread. It's clear things are only joke when they dont agree with you.

People are too informed too what? Endgame was just the biggest movie ever, people were in the theater crying and cheering. So stop projecting your hate onto other people.

Also CGI isnt a bad thing and outside of 2 scenes from Black Panther the MCU doesnt get hit for bad CGI. It's the opposite people go in expecting quality special effects.

Look Joker was great and was a big hit. If you want more dark gritty movies that have nothing to do with comics except for a couple superficial names thrown on it. Well I bet your gonna get it. Monkey see monkey do. But you not gonna convince the vast majority of people who loves the MCU and have made it the biggest franchise that they really dont. I'm still confused on what your excuse for how beloved the MCU Is by the masses is? Brainwashing? Its really not Disney is just inflating the numbers? Or something else. You just repeat the same baseless points about it not being real art and superficial because its colorful and fun and has too much cgi.

Are we going back to the whole Oscar stuff? wait 3 months when JOKER gets the best picture nomination. oh and best actor for Phoenix, because it is only logical that most best picture nominees also had nominations in acting, writing, or directing and if you are a big budget movie like some blockbusters classics like Titanic, Avatar or LOTR , you better have a nomination in cinematography or visual effects. Black Panther failed in all these categories. so where did the best picture nomination come from? from a film making stand point it should be impossible. anyone who understands film making would agree with me and that includes the Oscars 90 years own history to back me up on how other categories leads to big one of best picture.

Logan was the best example the Oscar snobbed. However 95% of best picture winners also won for screenplay. 99% of best picture nominees are nominated for screenplays. this is factual Oscar statistics. screenplay are the best indicator or best picture wins.Scorsese;s departed won for screenplay and picture. Every High budget film best picture nominee won for VFX. Even Scorese's own Hugo and Cameron's Avatar and Titanic.
So how did black panther miss out on those categorises and still got best picture?

Sad you brought up the Oscars again, that is another thing MCU has destroyed with cinema when an undeserving marvel movie was nominated for best picture. Iger wanted to use black panther to start a race war with scorsese. he was smart enough not to respond.

it took socrsese years to win an oscar, decades. Goodfellas, taxi driver, raging bill, gangs of new York, the aviator. He was ignored. MCU did it less than 10 years with a movie of bad cgi and one dimensional screenplay all because Disney has influence so in a way, scorsese movies come out looking more real than marvel movies.

[PoorStudent]

Do you guys think any of the superhero directors match the artistic abilities of directors like Scorsese or Coppola?
They're mostly fun, action/adventure movies, not really much more then that. I think people are using black panther as a argument for marvel's artistic value, and I like black panther but the rhino and cg subway fight at the end kind of undermined whatever good Coogler did before that. I don't know of any director other then Nolan that is as respected as Scorsese or Coppola are. Even Phillips and Joker feel like Value Brand Taxi Driver.

[Beaddle]

If you mean some argument that they make money and that's all that matters or that they are fun and that's all that matters, one factor is that, with most of these characters, there are no previous movie versions of any significance to compare them to. With Star Wars, you have the original trilogy and a lot of people don't like the current version for various reasons. A lot of people didn't like the prequels by comparison to the original trilogy. One reviewer back when "Phantom Menace" came out said that if it were truly Episode 1, it would probably be hailed as innovative but it's not really the original Star Wars movie. Likewise, with the MCU Spider-Man, we have two comparisons and the Raimi version is definitely superior, at least the first two.

.

I 100% agree with you, Disney is having it though with star wars and spiderman because they are already established in films, it does not matter if not all their films were great. they are some good ones and that is enough to turn people off to how manufactured the new star wars and spiderman films are. I also think this is the reason the future marvel movies, xmen in particular will fail. No one is going to accept light headed cgi driven xmen comedy movies except the MCU fans.

I heard star wars 9 is now tracking for the lowest opening box office and Ms Kennedy is going to be fired from star wars. the rain Johnson trilogy won't happen. Sony has more spiderman fans than Disney does because more people adore the Toby Maguire films a lot more not to mention Into the spiderverse has managed to both destroy mcu spiderman and that darm awful animation he has on Disney Xd that kids don't even watch.

But just saying that they are tainted in spite of good reviews and massive popularity because they don't work for you isn't much of any argument either. I'm not a big fan of Thor: Ragnarok" but I cannot deny that it was exactly what it set out to be, succeeded perfectly at it and got deserved great reviews and huge success at the box office. And I didn't even like it

Perhaps the reason no one listens to critics anymore. Joker is not really fresh on RT but brainless popcorn movies like Endgame and captain marvel are all iron clad fresh.

me watching that video of cameron and scorsese talking about Hugo make me wonder how marvel still gets away with bizzare animated cgi. How can people be angry with Scorsese. Like the iron man 1 director said. scorsese has earned the rights to say what he wants.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/23/iron-...nema-10971775/

You gotta know **** is down when Jon Favreau gives scorsese support.