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  1. #541
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I guess our list of films that aren't cinema now include Oscar winners. So cinema is only what a few people with contrarian views say it is.
    Okay, glad we leared that up.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  2. #542
    Brandy and Coke DT Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I guess our list of films that aren't cinema now include Oscar winners. So cinema is only what a few people with contrarian views say it is.
    Okay, glad we leared that up.
    It’s amazingly helpful. I’d have never known some of my favorite movies weren’t worth a damn if it weren’t for these true Scotsmen.

  3. #543
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I guess our list of films that aren't cinema now include Oscar winners. So cinema is only what a few people with contrarian views say it is.
    Okay, glad we leared that up.
    A lot of Oscar bait and winners are not cinema, especially in recent years. Many of us don’t even know or care what film won best picture. Oscar is not the judge on what’s cinema and what’s not cinema. As for the MCU, it’s not cinema, it’s a two hour commercial with the same formula in every movie.
    DC can make JL at the same time they can make the Joker and TDK.
    FoXMen can make The X-Men at the same time they can make Deadpool and Logan.
    We don’t see this kind of diverse formulas from the MCU.

  4. #544
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Thank you for making my point for me.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  5. #545
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    We all know the Oscar are bullsh**, but that doesn’t make Scorsese wrong.
    Last edited by luprki; 11-21-2019 at 03:21 PM.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    We all know the Oscar are bullsh**, but that doesn’t make Scorsese wrong.
    IIRC, people were making the point that MCU were not cinema because they were applying for the Oscars and obviously fall short, unworthy of such a lofty award. So what pray tell makes something cinema?

    Or are we gonna go the 'True Scotsman' route?

  7. #547
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    IIRC, people were making the point that MCU were not cinema because they were applying for the Oscars and obviously fall short, unworthy of such a lofty award. So what pray tell makes something cinema?

    Or are we gonna go the 'True Scotsman' route?
    We have been going that route for almost 40 pages.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #548
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    IIRC, people were making the point that MCU were not cinema because they were applying for the Oscars and obviously fall short, unworthy of such a lofty award. So what pray tell makes something cinema?
    The argument was that the MCU were being held to unfairly high standards. I said that the MCU were getting airs and trying to campaign for Oscars and so on. So they were trying to be something more than dumb entertainment. If the MCU truly had pride in their stuff they wouldn’t bother about awards and so on of be so thin skinned when Scorsese called them out.

    Scorsese for instance when he won for The Departed still casually deprecated that movie as a commercial gig he made to fund more personal stuff and in his acceptance speech he said, “it’s the first movie of mine with a plot”. So it’s not like he had illusions about it.

    There are a handful of great films that won best picture. The last time was the 90s with unforgiven, Schindler’s List, and Silence of the Lambs. Since then it’s been mediocre stuff with some decent but not great films (Titanic, The Departed, Spotlight, Moonlight, The Hurt locker) winning in between.

    All I am saying is that the MCU probably can buy a best picture Oscar. I mean Weinstein was the king of doing that with mediocre unworthy films like Shakespeare in love. But it wouldn’t prove anything in terms of superheroes being cinema or being art and so on.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    A lot of Oscar bait and winners are not cinema, especially in recent years. Many of us don’t even know or care what film won best picture. Oscar is not the judge on what’s cinema and what’s not cinema. As for the MCU, it’s not cinema, it’s a two hour commercial with the same formula in every movie.
    DC can make JL at the same time they can make the Joker and TDK.
    FoXMen can make The X-Men at the same time they can make Deadpool and Logan.
    We don’t see this kind of diverse formulas from the MCU.
    Speaking towards diverse films, you act as if there's no difference between Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Guardians, Ant-man, etc, even though they all keep to different genres.

    So their sin is serial fiction?

  10. #550
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    This is a pretty interesting and nuanced video on the Scorsese and Marvel thing. Neutral on the whole.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...se-marvel-feud


    Interestingly I re-read Scorsese’s article and I noticed something people haven’t picked up. There are three hot links to articles. Not sure if this was chosen by Scorsese, interns on his staff, or NYT editors. Either case Scorsese’s office would have had to approve it.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/b...-industry.html
    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a2...an-bankruptcy/
    https://screenrant.com/avengers-endg...urs-reactions/

    Those articles allude to stuff like changing theatres, the running time of Endgame being decided based on audience reactions. And how much of a risk Iron Man 1 was. The focus on Endgame suggests that was one of the movies Scorsese had seen.

    It comes in the boldes part of this paragraph:
    They are sequels in name but they are remakes in spirit, and everything in them is officially sanctioned because it can’t really be any other way. That’s the nature of modern film franchises: market-researched, audience-tested, vetted, modified, revetted and remodified until they’re ready for consumption.

  11. #551
    BANNED Hulkverine's Avatar
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    It’s really not up to me to judge Scorsese for having an opinion. It isn’t an opinion I share, but it’s understandable that he would view it this way.

    I binge MCU movies on the reg, and I also binge Scorcese movies.

    Art is subjective, we don’t need to like the same stuff.

    All that said, it is most certainly clear that he’s never watched an entire Marvel film. I also highly doubt he knows much of comic books in general.

  12. #552
    Mighty Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkverine View Post
    It’s really not up to me to judge Scorsese for having an opinion. It isn’t an opinion I share, but it’s understandable that he would view it this way.

    I binge MCU movies on the reg, and I also binge Scorcese movies.

    Art is subjective, we don’t need to like the same stuff.

    All that said, it is most certainly clear that he’s never watched an entire Marvel film. I also highly doubt he knows much of comic books in general.
    Scorsese objectivity has a good point about Marvel movies. He did tell us the reason why he found it hard to get into marvel films, its was quite articulate.

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Scorsese objectivity has a good point about Marvel movies. He did tell us the reason why he found it hard to get into marvel films, its was quite articulate.
    Personally I don’t think he made any good points, I read the piece. He admits straight away that he hasn’t even seen a single film all the way through. Marty is awesome, but that immediately disqualifies his opinion to me.

    Of course he’s Scorsese and I’m just some dude on a message board, but he did seem a little bitter and out of touch.

  14. #554
    Mighty Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkverine View Post
    Personally I don’t think he made any good points, .
    Its understandable that those who love and adore MCU movies would think he did not make a good point. I think he did. I have been saying the same thing for a while and I read marvel comics and I like some marvel movies from the Spiderman, X-men and blade franchise. this current mcu cinematic movies just have to much downgrade for the genre.

    I read the piece. He admits straight away that he hasn’t even seen a single film all the way through. Marty is awesome, but that immediately disqualifies his opinion to me.
    He tried watching one and was turned off, but did he really loose much? MCU movies are not that diverse in style, if you seen one, you have seen the rest technically.


    Of course he’s Scorsese and I’m just some dude on a message board, but he did seem a little bitter and out of touch.
    I don't think he was out of touch, if he was, he won't have triggered everyone.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 11-22-2019 at 04:07 AM.

  15. #555
    BANNED Hulkverine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Its understandable that those who love and adore MCU movies would think he did not make a good point. I think he did. I have been saying the same thing for a while and I read marvel comics and I like some marvel movies from the Spiderman, X-men and blade franchise. this current mcu cinematic movies just have to much downgrade for the genre.



    He tried watching one and was turned off, but did he really loose much? MCU movies are not that diverse in style, if you seen one, you have seen the rest technically.



    I don't think he was out of touch, if he was, he won't have triggered everyone.
    You lost me. Happy Friday tho, have a good weekend

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