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  1. #556
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    https://variety.com/2019/film/news/l...mpression=true

    Apparently an independent theater had such good business with Irishman that it’s no longer seeking a buyer. So what else does Scorsese need to do again?

  2. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    https://variety.com/2019/film/news/l...mpression=true

    Apparently an independent theater had such good business with Irishman that it’s no longer seeking a buyer. So what else does Scorsese need to do again?
    Doesn't that just prove that the MCU isn't destroying other films chances in indie theaters? Otherwise I am not sure what you are trying to prove with that.

  3. #558
    BANNED Hulkverine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    https://variety.com/2019/film/news/l...mpression=true

    Apparently an independent theater had such good business with Irishman that it’s no longer seeking a buyer. So what else does Scorsese need to do again?
    He needs to make as many movies as he can while he can, because I ****ing love Scorsese flicks.

  4. #559
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    Doesn't that just prove that the MCU isn't destroying other films chances in indie theaters? Otherwise I am not sure what you are trying to prove with that.
    Frankly, I'm not really sure what the whole thing is about or trying to prove anymore. Somebody expressed an opinion about something, however accurate its points were or where not, and it's become a point to prove or disprove that the MCU series is good or bad.
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  5. #560
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Frankly, I'm not really sure what the whole thing is about or trying to prove anymore. Somebody expressed an opinion about something, however accurate its points were or where not, and it's become a point to prove or disprove that the MCU series is good or bad.
    On the mild side, it's people saying the MCU occupies too much theater space and limits other movies. On the other extreme, it's people saying something focused on maximum commercial success doesn't count as art at all.

    To use an old argument that Scorsese also used, there are sequels and there are remakes. "The Empire Strikes Back" was a sequel. "Smokey and the Bandit 2" is allegedly a sequel but is really a remake. "It worked once. Let's do the same plot again and make more money". I would argue that the MCU is both depending on the movie and what part of the movie. They'll take a risk like "Winter Soldier", probably the MCU movie most compared to a DCEU movie. But they'll give up on doing justice to a story by doing the death of an entire species as almost slapstick comedy rather than risk another Thor movie that doesn't bring in every possible dollar.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  6. #561
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    On the mild side, it's people saying the MCU occupies too much theater space and limits other movies. On the other extreme, it's people saying something focused on maximum commercial success doesn't count as art at all.
    I think the former is an interesting thing to consider (although I think the various Hollywood brass, not Marvel, would be the ones to blame; Marvel Studios just does their job and does it well). I think the latter has no basis in reality; all film is art, the question is what case can be made for it being good or bad art, and IMHO, the MCU has examples of both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    To use an old argument that Scorsese also used, there are sequels and there are remakes. "The Empire Strikes Back" was a sequel. "Smokey and the Bandit 2" is allegedly a sequel but is really a remake. "It worked once. Let's do the same plot again and make more money".
    That can be dicey. I think Jurassic World edges close to a remake, given that it doesn't do that much with the differences from itself and the original (love that movie, mind you, but still). Conversely, I do not get the whole Force Awakens is just a New Hope remake, since for all the parallels (which a feature of how this movie series works, anyways), the new characters have new motivations, which I think push the story in new directions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I would argue that the MCU is both depending on the movie and what part of the movie. They'll take a risk like "Winter Soldier", probably the MCU movie most compared to a DCEU movie. But they'll give up on doing justice to a story by doing the death of an entire species as almost slapstick comedy rather than risk another Thor movie that doesn't bring in every possible dollar.
    I think everything's case-by-case and not all risks are equal. IMHO, time will tell which installments of the MCU are more then the sum of their parts and which are just a diversion/building block in the mega-series.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #562
    Mighty Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    On the mild side, it's people saying the MCU occupies too much theater space and limits other movies. On the other extreme, it's people saying something focused on maximum commercial success doesn't count as art at all.
    .
    Didn't Tarentino say Disney were telling theatres not to play hateful8 for star wars 7? There was also a controversy this year that some theatres only played captain marvel for the first week. if Disney starts buying theatres to play their movies alone, it will not be surprising.


    To use an old argument that Scorsese also used, there are sequels and there are remakes. "The Empire Strikes Back" was a sequel. "Smokey and the Bandit 2" is allegedly a sequel but is really a remake. "It worked once. Let's do the same plot again and make more money".
    Ironic Godfather had sequels and Goodfellas didn't. Did not stop Coppela in joining Scorsese's saying MCU is not cinema. its not the sequels and remakes that is the problem, its the structure that has been put in place with these sequel and remakes.
    They'll take a risk like "Winter Soldier", probably the MCU movie most compared to a DCEU movie. But they'll give up on doing justice to a story by doing the death of an entire species as almost slapstick comedy rather than risk another Thor movie that doesn't bring in every possible dollar.
    I still can't believe some say winter solider was a risk as an MCU movie. if it was DC (not DCEU) or X-Men, it would not be called a risk. what this highlight is MCU drew a basic line in the genre, Most of their movies never crosses the line of slaspstick light fun comedy or the usual action packed movies so winter solider feels like a rare in the MCU even with the predictable spy story and some questionable technical choices like Cinematography, other movies like Thor 3, Antman, Avengers make ups what defines mcu movies, this is what scorsese must have picked on when he started questioning the content of their films in his first MCU rant.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 11-23-2019 at 04:27 AM.

  8. #563
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I think the former is an interesting thing to consider (although I think the various Hollywood brass, not Marvel, would be the ones to blame; Marvel Studios just does their job and does it well). I think the latter has no basis in reality; all film is art, the question is what case can be made for it being good or bad art, and IMHO, the MCU has examples of both.



    That can be dicey. I think Jurassic World edges close to a remake, given that it doesn't do that much with the differences from itself and the original (love that movie, mind you, but still). Conversely, I do not get the whole Force Awakens is just a New Hope remake, since for all the parallels (which a feature of how this movie series works, anyways), the new characters have new motivations, which I think push the story in new directions.



    I think everything's case-by-case and not all risks are equal. IMHO, time will tell which installments of the MCU are more then the sum of their parts and which are just a diversion/building block in the mega-series.
    Another factor is the innovation of a series of movies all in the same setting but with different characters and situations (as opposed to the James Bond movies with the same character and situations).

    In other words, if there was no MCU but just a movie called "Iron-Man" and two sequels, the end, there would be no real criticism. Even if they later did a Captain America movie and sequels, there would be no criticism of this nature. Even if they dropped a cameo by one of the characters into a movie of the other character, no big deal. Even if they stopped at Avengers, there wouldn't be too much whining.

    It seems like the "not art" argument amounts to nothing more than: There are a lot of them and most of them are very similar.

    Well, okay, had there been 22 Smokey and the Bandit movies, I suppose people would start saying the same thing but, even then, only if they kept making a fortune instead of fading more with each movie. You could say similar things about horror movies that ran over a dozen installments. The only difference is they had no significant impact on theaters in terms of other movies.

    Then again, the accusation is absurd to begin with. Of course there are similarities. There can't help but be similarities between movies in a series. Yet the story was also progressing toward a grand conclusion. Now, one could say that it's like, say, Buffy. The grand conclusion of season one is done and the Big Bad defeated. But there will be a new story arc next season. In that respect, it's like a television show but on a grand budget in the theater. Except, on a television show, you don't normally kill off your biggest draw, your main character, and another main character and turn another out to pasture and have another most likely retire. But they eliminated Stark, Cap, Natasha and Barton very likely. Most of what goes from here will be the hope that new characters will be accepted and popular.

    Eventually, this particular phenomenon, the MCU, will fade. Nothing lasts forever. I suspect that, when it does, for the naysayers, it will be like the old baseball joke about the guy who goes to see games and does nothing but complain. A team wins ten games in a row. "It's a fluke". They win 50 games in a row. "It won't last". A hundred games. "You just wait and see". Finally, after winning 122 games, they finally lose one. "See? I told you they were losers".

    Even after it's over, I suspect the superhero genre in cinema will go on for some time. Like the western, it will take a major cultural shift in our interests or a generation for whom CGI is old news.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  9. #564
    Mighty Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Director of Joker gives his take on Scorsese, he echos what James Mangold and William Dafoe said about his own comic movies.

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertain...riticism.html/


    ''My only issue with what he said — and I have no issue with anything he ever says, I literally worship the man — is that he’s lumping a lot of movies into one thing, and I think that’s a tough thing to do. I think if we lumped in gangster movies and put in Goodfellas and Casino with some shit that’s not quite the same


    What I know is a lot of great artists work on those movies, not just directors but actors and craftspeople. So I didn’t love that [Scorsese] lumped a whole group. It seemed rather reductive. But I do know what he was meaning. Really, what he’s talking about is exhibition. He’s talking about how they take over the theaters, the multiplexes, the screening spaces, and it does [not] really leave room for some of the other stuff. The only issue is movie studios are going to make whatever movies people show up to. In a weird way, the audience holds the power.''…



    While I agree with most of scorsese comments, I feel more for Philips, I don't like how other comic movies that has nothing to do with the MCU are becoming collateral damage. Philips is right, you can't lump every comic movie together as you can't lump every gangsta flicks together. Scorsese needs to watch comic movies that are have nothing to do with MCU.

  10. #565
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    Scorsese needs to watch more comic movies period if he's going to judge objectively. Ppl have explained over and over again how all MCU movies aren't the same. And the idea that MCU movies are pushing out other types of movies has been disproven a couple of times. But now that "other comic movies are becoming collateral damage." his comments might be a problem..

  11. #566
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Director of Joker gives his take on Scorsese, he echos what James Mangold and William Dafoe said about his own comic movies.

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertain...riticism.html/


    ''My only issue with what he said — and I have no issue with anything he ever says, I literally worship the man — is that he’s lumping a lot of movies into one thing, and I think that’s a tough thing to do. I think if we lumped in gangster movies and put in Goodfellas and Casino with some shit that’s not quite the same


    What I know is a lot of great artists work on those movies, not just directors but actors and craftspeople. So I didn’t love that [Scorsese] lumped a whole group. It seemed rather reductive. But I do know what he was meaning. Really, what he’s talking about is exhibition. He’s talking about how they take over the theaters, the multiplexes, the screening spaces, and it does [not] really leave room for some of the other stuff. The only issue is movie studios are going to make whatever movies people show up to. In a weird way, the audience holds the power.''…



    While I agree with most of scorsese comments, I feel more for Philips, I don't like how other comic movies that has nothing to do with the MCU are becoming collateral damage. Philips is right, you can't lump every comic movie together as you can't lump every gangsta flicks together. Scorsese needs to watch comic movies that are have nothing to do with MCU.
    I suspect he's also saying that you can't just lump every MCU movie together. You can't lump Winter Soldier in and judge it by Thor Ragnorak or judge Black Panther as if it were Ant-Man and so on.

    Then you've got movies outside the MCU like "Man of Steel" and "B v S" which, whatever their failings, were trying to say something about human nature. You certainly cannot fairly dismiss "Wonder Woman" by just tossing it in with the worst of the MCU movies.

    So I do think the biggest issue for most of these people is the sheer amount of theater space that gets taken up by MCU movies. But Philips rightly makes the point that studios are going to gear toward movies that people go see the most. The audience ultimately has the power based on the movies they choose to see. It's not like these other movies have no availability to see. If these other movies were packed and people turned away, they'd make more of them and give them more theater space.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  12. #567
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I am looking for all the Comic Book movies that are currently squeezing out everything else. Right now there is only Joker, which even the comic movie haters seem to like. The next one doesn't come out until next year (Birds of Prey).
    So where are these theaters that aren't showing legitimate cinema because they are filled with Comic Book movies?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  13. #568
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I am looking for all the Comic Book movies that are currently squeezing out everything else. Right now there is only Joker, which even the comic movie haters seem to like. The next one doesn't come out until next year (Birds of Prey).
    So where are these theaters that aren't showing legitimate cinema because they are filled with Comic Book movies?
    There's a local "Folks On A Budget..." theater that runs Marvel films until they fall over.

    I saw The Lighthouse there just fine.

    It's an almost completely unfounded assertion.

  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I am looking for all the Comic Book movies that are currently squeezing out everything else. Right now there is only Joker, which even the comic movie haters seem to like. The next one doesn't come out until next year (Birds of Prey).
    So where are these theaters that aren't showing legitimate cinema because they are filled with Comic Book movies?
    I do get the idea that it's not just comic book movies, but blockbusters in general; the comic book movie MCU series is getting pointed to as a notable example of the blockbuster. That said, while I can see the point that the corporations can and/have used the blockbuster popularity to leverage things in their favor, I do keep track of stuff that comes out, and this idea that non-blockbusters can't make it doesn't really fit at all. At least in my tow, there's quite a mix of stuff.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
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  15. #570
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    I saw Irishman over the weekend. And I gotta say it’s truly a masterpiece and the best movie of the year.

    It’s a movie about stuff MCU and superhero stories are incapable of dealing with: aging and death.

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