Scorsese explains why he thinks Marvel movies aren't cinema

[Beaddle]

It’s a movie about stuff MCU and superhero stories are incapable of dealing with: aging and death.

Many marvel stories covers aging and death. the only trouble is Marvel Studios would never tell these stories in their movies.

[Jokerz79]

I saw Irishman over the weekend. And I gotta say it’s truly a masterpiece and the best movie of the year.

It’s a movie about stuff MCU and superhero stories are incapable of dealing with: aging and death.

Didn't see Endgame?

[Kirby101]

Didn't see Endgame?

Or Thor Dark World, or Winter Soldier, or GOTG or Dr Strange or.....

[Beaddle]

Lou Ferrigno, Original Hulk gives his take on the issues with marvel films, he is not directly responding to scorsese but he put out this comment around the time scorsese was blowing up marvel and many were weighing in. Lou has said the same thing many have echoed is the main drawbacks on marvel.

uk.ign.com/articles/2019/11/17/lou-ferrigno-disappointed-with-hulk-in-avengers-endgame-mark-ruffalo-bruce-banner-disney
“What’s happening is that the first two Hulk movies, the CGI was improving, but the last one, Endgame, I was disappointed," Ferrigno said. "Because the Hulk needs to be hideous, he needs to be a creature." Endgame was too “extreme with the spaceships, the shooting, the outer space.”

Can't say I am surprised about this anymore. I have said that countless times. MCU needs to ground things more. if mcu wants to be over the top, they should make good marvel animations and give their live action film more realism. Disney should now know this better with Lion King. Scorsese calling them theme parks is not just something he invented. MCU being over the top and loud with their cgi and action harms their movies. its truly extreme to the point of bombastic.

“We need good stories," he added. "Good elements, good messages about life. Because when you see the [original Hulk] series, even like The Twilight Zone, the original Twilight Zone, you learn something from every episode."

This is the biggest thing MCU needs to take away going forward from this backlash. RevolutionaryJack looks like Lou agrees with you. we should learn something from MCU movies, it does not have to be death or ageing but we need to start looking beyond the fun with MCU movies. if MCU has done this from Phase 2, we would not be having this conversation with scorsese and even past Marvel alumnis like Lou and Dafoe, who can spot what is missing from this current marvel era.

[Beaddle]

Didn't see Endgame?

Or Thor Dark World, or Winter Soldier, or GOTG or Dr Strange or.....

Many saw all those movies but they don't seem to hold any weight. The best marvel film to highlight ageing and death that sticks with you in a real sense of the act is Logan since the movie set the tone specifically for those subjects and Logan being a mature film helps a lot to understand that theme.

these mcu movies is still more about the fun, Disney kid-friendly entertainment and the theme park feels. the rollercoster of their extreme spectacles. I will advise Scorsese to watch Logan but I will have to tell him it is not really a marvel movie.

This was one of the problems with marvel films, Marvel can have it both ways and it is hard to balance both for a live action film. this is why Pixar is amazing but marvel being like Pixar is not the best. Marvel can't sell the idea that comic films are nothing more than slapstick light-hearted entertainment with no real depth or life meaning and turn around and say we should buy the human themes in their films of ageing and death when the barely set the tone and strong narrative of that kind of story telling.

Aviator is the most fun Scorsese film I have seen, still light years about MCU definition of fun.

[Kirby101]

Sorry, the Hulk TV show was mostly boring. I don't need the MCU to be an Afternoon Special. The only backlash is a few posters who don't like superhero movies. The general public continues to love these movies.

[CliffHanger2]

We don't need to go to the movies to learn about ageing and death. Yes ppl like to go to the movies to have fun.

[lowfyr]

Funny that Lou Ferrigno complains About Endgame being too "extreme with the spaceships, the shooting, the outer space". I still remember watching his two Hercules movies. Compared to that Endgame was tame. Doesn't help that he thinks that there is only one Version of the character.


Perhaps they should do an adaption of the immortal Hulk or the ultimate version. But I think than he would complain, that they made "his" Hulk too dark^^

[CliffHanger2]

Funny that Lou Ferrigno complains About Endgame being too "extreme with the spaceships, the shooting, the outer space". I still remember watching his two Hercules movies. Compared to that Endgame was tame. Doesn't help that he thinks that there is only one Version of the character.


Perhaps they should do an adaption of the immortal Hulk or the ultimate version. But I think than he would complain, that they made "his" Hulk too dark^^

Hypocritcal, contradictory criticism seem to be a thing with the MCU critics of late.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Didn't see Endgame?

I did see it. And it’s not a convincing movie about death and aging. A movie where characters die and come back which ends in a battle where just one guy dies is not a honest movie about death, aging, regret.

[Agent Z]

Or Thor Dark World, or Winter Soldier, or GOTG or Dr Strange or.....

How was Thor: The Dark World About aging and death? Or did you mean Ragnarok?

[Beaddle]

The posters in this thread don't even dislike superhero movies, they prefer DC and hate Marvel getting the attention they want their franchise to get. The same people that clung to the Rotten Tomatoes is working with Disney to keep DC down conspiracists.

the only comic film I like this year is Joker. I did not love endgame, shazam, far from home or dark phoenix. Yes, Joker may be a DC film but Joker works because Joker is the only movie that does not feel formulaic, manufactured or trying to follow a boring formula.

its no longer about Marvel vs DC, it has not being for a long time. it is now more about independent director-writer films vs manufactured cooperate movies with no art or substance. I personally like any comic film that was more independently done marvel or dc regardless. MCU was a new wave, it was not like what marvel or DC had in the past, not sure this new wave has been good for the genre in the long run.

It truly really is not about marvel vs DC. William Dafoe was in a Sony marvel film, James mangold made a fox marvel film, Todd Philips made a DC film not tied to the DCU and all 3 men have said, their own comic movies are different from the MCU as a response to Scorsese proving further it is not marvel hate and DC love.

The same people that clung to the Rotten Tomatoes

I dived into Scorsese's past, turns out he dislikes rotten tomatoes as much as MCU movies. Once again, Scorsese shows he is boss when it comes to understanding films and criticism of films

working with Disney to keep DC down conspiracists.

The neutral professional critics are baffled that Joker has such a low RT score, Scorsese ended the RT debate long before they took a life of its own. RT has not helped cinema.I have said that already and am glad Scorsese see things as such. Its irrelevant what scorsese said about marvel in relations to RT as scorsese does not take Rotten tomatoes seriously like marvel does.


https://www.indiewire.com/2018/04/ma...re-1201958988/
Martin Scorsese Slams Rotten Tomatoes and CinemaScore: ‘They Reinforce the Idea Every Image Is There to be Instantly Judged’


Honestly, Scorsese is truly from a different era. he is the embodiment of everything that is against cinema that was supposed to be working for today's blockbusters like marvel and star wars.

[luprki]

I don’t even know what this Scorsese controversy is about. The MCU was never intended to be cinema, it’s intention is to be dumb popcorn entertainment to sell merchandise and comic books. I don’t understand how anyone can argue the MCU and many recent Disney movies is cinema. Disney makes brand movies, they don’t make cinema.
Saying the MCU is not cinema is not an insult to the MCU, it’s the reality. Even the other major studios don’t make a lot of cinema. Most of the cinema these days come from small independent studios.
The Scorsese comments is really a non issue.

[Beaddle]

I don’t even know what this Scorsese controversy is about. The MCU was never intended to be cinema, it’s intention is to be dumb popcorn entertainment to sell merchandise and comic books. .

I never needed movies to sell me comic books, I could separate books from films, the movies has never impacted how I feel about the books. if I was been brutally honest most and if not all the comic movies are not as good as the source material.
At least Scorsese did not shit on comic books, he shitted on their movies, most comic movies today are just fluff take on their material.

[luprki]

It should be noted that Scorsese wasn’t talking about comic book movies in general. He singled out Marvel (MCU) as not being cinema. Does this mean he thinks other CBM’s are cinematic?
I think the answer is “yes”. It’s Marvel in particular he doesn’t like and I agree.