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  1. #31
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Just a little nudge - whether or not PG is stronger than SM or SG is not relevant to the discussion, so let's not stray there, please
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    No!

    Actually PG is equal or stronger to CLARK!!
    I would say if you exclude H'EL,Superboy Prime,Kal Els father in Rebirth...
    PG is clearly the strongest living Kryptonian..

    https://www.cbr.com/things-power-gir...upergirl-cant/
    While that may sound strange, DC did sort of provide an indirect measure that might support it, in that her cousin, Kal-L has been for a while, though obviously not originally, portrayed as being considerably more powerful than the modern Kryptonians of DC's main universe. Until it came time to briefly punk him out to Superman Prime. And then back to form in Blackest Night. You might in that case suggest that she's on a par a bit below him, (also see Blackest Night where she gets beaten up by him, but manages to hold on to him and prevent him from escaping), and thus above the main Superman...but considering I've really never seen evidence of that, apart from maybe the nu52 Power Girl, especially in her Darkseid fight...for a few panels.

    I'd say it's better to just say she's on a par with SG, wherever that is. And the last fight she had with Diana has Diana herself at least suggesting that PG MIGHT be stronger and faster than she is...but then that famous scene with the Trinity arguing as to which one is faster between Diana and Superman has both Diana and Batman suggesting that while Superman is obviously faster than Diana in an Usain Bolt sort of way, Diana is faster in a Bruce Lee sort of way because of all her training and experience.

    Which does sort of suggest that PG MIGHT be stronger and faster than Diana too...in that sense. But only MIGHT, as Diana's words read like she herself was uncertain. And you notice who ultimately WON that fight. I would suggest that there's absolutely no question as to who the premiere comic book superheroine is, and that this issue of Simone's run showed how to handle having a near peer to Diana lose without totally disrespecting the other character.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    NO...

    Actually it would depends on the writer, but I remember that PG is (if you exclude Superboy Prime,H'EL, possible NEW52 FUTURE Superboy Versions, Supermans father etc.)
    the strongest normal Kryptonian and STRONGER than Clark.



    No....Simply No...





    PG is actually stronger than Diana and I remind that she PUNCHED DIANA to CANADA..



    WHEN? Can you give me the source?

    Last time I saw DIANA vs PG
    PG punched her to Canada..

    PG is clearly easy above her....
    Maybe read the full fight next time before you claim such ridiculous nonsense, Wonder Woman was not even injured from that punch and has easily won the fight as she started to use her skill:





    And punching someone to Canada would be no problem at all for Diana(Batman was like a sun dipped Kryptonian in that story, that's why he survived):


  4. #34
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel...Red Sonja? This list is a joke.
    Overall the list is about "more powerful" rather than physically stronger. The name suggest physically stronger though. :/

    10: Willow Rosenberg: she's literally a witch, not super strong, Kinda like Doctor Strange.
    9: America Chavez: debatable, this is one of those characters with certain weird abilities that WW doesn't have, but mostly just the same abilities.
    8: Scarlet Witch: again, a witch, not a physical powerhouse.
    7: Red Sonja/Witchblade: this entry is cheating since Red Sonja isn't the normal wielder.
    6: Angela: not an actual angel. Also since Aldrif Odinsdottir is the daughter of Freya, she's actually less powerful than Thor(whose mother is Gaia). She's a lot faster than Thor, but can't match his raw power.
    5: Power Girl: Kryptonian
    4: Starfire: both Koriand'r and Kommand'r are physically far less formidable than WW or a Kryptonian. It's kinda like the old Spiderman thing. Tamaranians are "super aliens", but not as super as Kryptonians.
    3: Big Barda: they've SHOWN this in the comics! brute physical strength is the ONLY way Barda can even nearly match WW.
    2: Phoenix: psi-witch
    1: Captain Marvel: If we're going with only current version.... about equal. As Binary Danvers was stupid powerful, but her regular form isn't as powerful. Binary was kinda like a Kryptonian under a blue sun. Danvers was supercharging her powers by siphoning energy from a star.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Maybe read the full fight next time before you claim such ridiculous nonsense, Wonder Woman was not even injured from that punch and has easily won the fight as she started to use her skill:





    And punching someone to Canada would be no problem at all for Diana(Batman was like a sun dipped Kryptonian in that story, that's why he survived):

    I would point out that it simply isn't true based on the art that Diana was uninjured, or even unimpressed. The whole fight was a nice story, showing Diana having to struggle to win, before recalling Black Canary's not entirely true advice about skill, (the thrust was that Canary was wrong with her idea that ONLY Diana could fight among the superpowered set, with Diana noting that PG can as well, but that she, Diana herself, is just better because of who she is and the life she's lived).

    But strictly on the OP, with respect to who is stronger between WW and PG...you just can't say. With respect to the Simone run issue, it at least allows for the possibility that PG was stronger at that point, but I think Simone's intent was simply to give PG and her fans some respect, and to give Diana a worthy opponent for an issue, rather than to clarify the OP question. It's possible, but probably not terribly relevant, and PG isn't part of the DCU at this time, so it's kind of pointless, especially given all the changes Diana's gone through since the last time the two character really met in continuity.

    Maybe if they ever bring PG back that question might get another look, but for now, WW's got the title for DC at least IMO.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I would point out that it simply isn't true based on the art that Diana was uninjured, or even unimpressed. The whole fight was a nice story, showing Diana having to struggle to win, before recalling Black Canary's not entirely true advice about skill, (the thrust was that Canary was wrong with her idea that ONLY Diana could fight among the superpowered set, with Diana noting that PG can as well, but that she, Diana herself, is just better because of who she is and the life she's lived).

    But strictly on the OP, with respect to who is stronger between WW and PG...you just can't say. With respect to the Simone run issue, it at least allows for the possibility that PG was stronger at that point, but I think Simone's intent was simply to give PG and her fans some respect, and to give Diana a worthy opponent for an issue, rather than to clarify the OP question. It's possible, but probably not terribly relevant, and PG isn't part of the DCU at this time, so it's kind of pointless, especially given all the changes Diana's gone through since the last time the two character really met in continuity.

    Maybe if they ever bring PG back that question might get another look, but for now, WW's got the title for DC at least IMO.
    That seems like a weird thing for Dinah to say given she has super powers herself and is considered one of the best martial artists in the DC universe.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That seems like a weird thing for Dinah to say given she has super powers herself and is considered one of the best martial artists in the DC universe.
    Well Dianah has powers, but she's not quite Super-powered.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Overall the list is about "more powerful" rather than physically stronger. The name suggest physically stronger though. :/

    10: Willow Rosenberg: she's literally a witch, not super strong, Kinda like Doctor Strange.
    9: America Chavez: debatable, this is one of those characters with certain weird abilities that WW doesn't have, but mostly just the same abilities.
    8: Scarlet Witch: again, a witch, not a physical powerhouse.
    7: Red Sonja/Witchblade: this entry is cheating since Red Sonja isn't the normal wielder.
    6: Angela: not an actual angel. Also since Aldrif Odinsdottir is the daughter of Freya, she's actually less powerful than Thor(whose mother is Gaia). She's a lot faster than Thor, but can't match his raw power.
    5: Power Girl: Kryptonian
    4: Starfire: both Koriand'r and Kommand'r are physically far less formidable than WW or a Kryptonian. It's kinda like the old Spiderman thing. Tamaranians are "super aliens", but not as super as Kryptonians.
    3: Big Barda: they've SHOWN this in the comics! brute physical strength is the ONLY way Barda can even nearly match WW.
    2: Phoenix: psi-witch
    1: Captain Marvel: If we're going with only current version.... about equal. As Binary Danvers was stupid powerful, but her regular form isn't as powerful. Binary was kinda like a Kryptonian under a blue sun. Danvers was supercharging her powers by siphoning energy from a star.
    If we go by feats. Binary carol is not on par with WW. Specially if that list is talking about overall catalogue of feats. Which means pre and post crisis feats count for Diana too. PG, like others already said, is not above Diana based on the last time they fought. Same with sg and barda based on their fights with Diana.

  9. #39
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    I think we have to accept that there is some knee-deep Wonder-resentment, out there. Just how it is.

    Even after seeing her made the daughter of ZEUS, some comic fans and, surprisingly, some some writers ..just won't accept that Diana is second-in-power, ONLY to Superman. That was established, way back in the Byrne run, ..and, as of the Jenkins film, it still stands, ..list or no list! Don't know why that's a hard pill to swallow...

    But swallow it, we must! It's an editorial mandate. No matter what you see or saw in some dumb, poorly edited comic story, ..Wondy is second to none, but, Big Blue.

    And that means just him! No, it doesn't mean Superman and the rest of the Kryptonians, ..none of whom are magically powered or the children of gods! Being from Krypton doesn't and, in my opinion, shouldn't, ..trump being powered by unquantifiable MAGIC. By that logic, Diana Themiscyra can be ninety-six on a walker ..and still beat the living hell out of Supergirl, Superhorse, Superintendent, Superfly ..and any other Kryptonians, who miraculously missed that big, falling rock sale, in the sky!I

    To be fair to the Superfans, ..it doesn't help that common superhedoes, and even some with no powers, are regularly shown pimp-slapping Greek gods, ..easy as you'd swat a gnat. If we see Darkseid straight up KILL Zeus, after Superman bats him around like a pingpong ball, what are we supposed to think? I'm sick of seeing writers and editors treat the Grek gods or anybody from the WW comics, like crap, in a story! I'm trying to be fair to the Superfans, but, let's also be clear that much of what has cued your opinions about Wonder Woman's power levels ..is atrociously sloppy editing.

    Wonder Woman, lackluster sales, lame stories and all, ..is still the BEAST.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-16-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That seems like a weird thing for Dinah to say given she has super powers herself and is considered one of the best martial artists in the DC universe.
    I should have added that she meant the top end, god-like powered ones.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Karen being more powerful than Kara does not make her more powerful than Clark. You've provided some good arguments for the former but nothing for the latter.
    PG and Superman of Earth 2 are usually seen as Pre-Crisis (Silver Age) Kryptonians and are therefore usually seen as been stronger than the Main-Earth Kryptonians.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I would point out that it simply isn't true based on the art that Diana was uninjured, or even unimpressed. The whole fight was a nice story, showing Diana having to struggle to win, before recalling Black Canary's not entirely true advice about skill, (the thrust was that Canary was wrong with her idea that ONLY Diana could fight among the superpowered set, with Diana noting that PG can as well, but that she, Diana herself, is just better because of who she is and the life she's lived).

    But strictly on the OP, with respect to who is stronger between WW and PG...you just can't say. With respect to the Simone run issue, it at least allows for the possibility that PG was stronger at that point, but I think Simone's intent was simply to give PG and her fans some respect, and to give Diana a worthy opponent for an issue, rather than to clarify the OP question. It's possible, but probably not terribly relevant, and PG isn't part of the DCU at this time, so it's kind of pointless, especially given all the changes Diana's gone through since the last time the two character really met in continuity.

    Maybe if they ever bring PG back that question might get another look, but for now, WW's got the title for DC at least IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    I think we have to accept that there is some knee-deep Wonder-resentment, out there. Just how it is.

    Even after seeing her made the daughter of ZEUS, some comic fans and, surprisingly, some some writers ..just won't accept that Diana is second-in-power, ONLY to Superman. That was established, way back in the Byrne run, ..and, as of the Jenkins film, it still stands, ..list or no list! Don't know why that's a hard pill to swallow...

    But swallow it, we must! It's an editorial mandate. No matter what you see or saw in some dumb, poorly edited comic story, ..Wondy is second to none, but, Big Blue.

    And that means just him! No, it doesn't mean Superman and the rest of the Kryptonians, ..none of whom are magically powered or the children of gods! Being from Krypton doesn't and, in my opinion, shouldn't, ..trump being powered by unquantifiable MAGIC. By that logic, Diana Themiscyra can be ninety-six on a walker ..and still beat the living hell out of Supergirl, Superhorse, Superintendent, Superfly ..and any other Kryptonians, who miraculously missed that big, falling rock sale, in the sky!I

    To be fair to the Superfans, ..it doesn't help that common superhedoes, and even some with no powers, are regularly shown pimp-slapping Greek gods, ..easy as you'd swat a gnat. If we see Darkseid straight up KILL Zeus, after Superman bats him around like a pingpong ball, what are we supposed to think? I'm sick of seeing writers and editors treat the Grek gods or anybody from the WW comics, like crap, in a story! I'm trying to be fair to the Superfans, but, let's also be clear that much of what has cued your opinions about Wonder Woman's power levels ..is atrociously sloppy editing.

    Wonder Woman, lackluster sales, lame stories and all, ..is still the BEAST.
    Wonder Woman does have a lot of haters and also those who would rather call themselves as "non-fans", wanting to place the Amazing Amazon Warrior Princess in the top 10, rather than at the top!!

    Wonder Woman did indeed look unimpressed and even bored (to me) while fighting PG. It seems she was just letting Karen go all out, while easily and without even thinking, blocking, dodging, parrying and thumping her. Yes, Diana won that fight, but in such a way shown to not upset PG fans.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing that really needs to figure out are the bullets. She is strong but should she die from bullets. She is able to survive tougher stuff things than bullets. How do you balance it out? I would go they can pierce. her but it's hard to actually kill her with them. I mean she does have a healing factor. If she can survive a punch from Superman or a few others. She should be able to counterblalance.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Wonder Woman does have a lot of haters and also those who would rather call themselves as "non-fans", wanting to place the Amazing Amazon Warrior Princess in the top 10, rather than at the top!!

    Wonder Woman did indeed look unimpressed and even bored (to me) while fighting PG. It seems she was just letting Karen go all out, while easily and without even thinking, blocking, dodging, parrying and thumping her. Yes, Diana won that fight, but in such a way shown to not upset PG fans.
    Except she didn't. The entire FIRST part of that fight showed a bloodied Diana very much losing, getting hit at will, while failing with her lasso trick, (which come to think about it has never actually worked on PG, even though Diana has gone to it twice that I know of), and generally NOT having an easy or fun time. Nor did it seem from either the art or Diana's inner monologue, which said she was trying and failing to beat PG based on sheer power. Diana only really started winning when she recalled (Simone's own) deal about Diana being that "only" top level superpowered hero who could fight. And yes, it was very nicely done, showing in the end who was tops, but also allowing a consolation prize of a good showing for a character who let's face it, rarely gets good showings, (and most of them come with strong caveats). That was in fact what I think should be the model for doing that sort of thing. It was even structured well enough for an issue with no real peril, giving Diana a...mild struggle before her inevitable victory, because hey, that ratchets up the tension at least a little bit if it looks like the...er, excuse the term, "face", looks to be losing early in the match before making the big comeback. If you have Diana walk all over whichever mind-controlled hero she's fighting that month from start to finish, why bother reading? I mean it might be fun once or twice, but there's a limit to how many squash matches you care to see.

    Bottom line is for DC, Diana is it. And Marvel or those others don't really matter since you can't legit compare them even to the extent you can with PG and Diana, and they haven't crossed paths in that manner very often.

    Though these days, Harley Quinn could probably beat Diana easily, do to the plot device of perceived popularity, (and I'm not convinced Harley's as popular as DC and WB think). Harley would come up with some sudden, never before seen superior to Batman and Diana fighting skills if it's a "serious" story, or a magic mallet or something if not, and just win. Well, maybe not, but I wouldn't be too surprised if that were to happen..
    Last edited by achilles; 11-23-2019 at 10:27 AM.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Though these days, Harley Quinn could probably beat Diana easily, do to the plot device of perceived popularity, (and I'm not convinced Harley's as popular as DC and WB think). Harley would come up with some sudden, never before seen superior to Batman and Diana fighting skills if it's a "serious" story, or a magic mallet or something if not, and just win. Well, maybe not, but I wouldn't be too surprised if that were to happen..
    Harley's already made a fool of Diana at least twice that I'm aware of.
    One was a jokey story where Harley caught her with knock-out gas and stole her costume. And then there was Heroes in Crisis where Harley outfought her enough to steal the Lasso.

    As cringey as it sounds.
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