CBR list on female heroes stronger than Diana

[achilles]

Harley's already made a fool of Diana at least twice that I'm aware of.
One was a jokey story where Harley caught her with knock-out gas and stole her costume. And then there was Heroes in Crisis where Harley outfought her enough to steal the Lasso.

As cringey as it sounds.

Sounds pretty cringeworthy to me, and it was in fact what I was referring to. Didn't know about the first though. I might mildly tolerate that, in one of Harley's jokey things, but in a "serious" book that's in continuity...er, no. At least, not for me. Diana is and should be tops in the DCU among all the female heroes and villains, (no, "Perpetua" is a plot device, not a character, and one that sounds like it was done by a five year old). And that's for history's sake, for what the character has meant to comic books over a very long time, how good the character inherently is, and many other reasons. No unpowered character should be able to do what few powered ones can. Hell, in that HIC thing AFAIK she had no real reason to be able to beat Batman, much less Diana. Unless she has a history of that sort of thing I don't know about.

[achilles]

One addendum to that PG/WW fight, with nothing to do with the OP really, just nice. If you look at the art carefully, you can see the artist based PG's moves on what seems to be a combo of boxing and Muay Thai. Which fits perfectly with her character, as would have things like Krav Maga or Kyokushin Karate. Nice bit of storytelling with that art. Though how a character like that could learn those martial arts is a bit puzzling, since sparring is required to be able to fight, and someone it would take someone like Diana to be able to survive sparring with someone that fast and strong, and invulnerable to boot---she'd just kill Black Canary say if she actually tried to spar with her. So...apart from Diana herself, who has a great story to explain that bit away, I don't see how the PG or SG or indeed SM types can actually learn to fight in the first place, much less maintain that ability without sparring at near full capacity. I can think of a few explanations since it doesn't seem to be a fitness or body conditioning thing, but I've never seen those things really explained, at least for PG, I don't know about SG. And no, while Wildcat could SHOW her how to punch, he could never teach her to box, if you catch the difference. Couldn't even do focus mitt drills with her without being killed.

[WonderLight789]

Except she didn't. The entire FIRST part of that fight showed a bloodied Diana very much losing, getting hit at will, while failing with her lasso trick, (which come to think about it has never actually worked on PG, even though Diana has gone to it twice that I know of), and generally NOT having an easy or fun time. Nor did it seem from either the art or Diana's inner monologue, which said she was trying and failing to beat PG based on sheer power. Diana only really started winning when she recalled (Simone's own) deal about Diana being that "only" top level superpowered hero who could fight. And yes, it was very nicely done, showing in the end who was tops, but also allowing a consolation prize of a good showing for a character who let's face it, rarely gets good showings, (and most of them come with strong caveats). That was in fact what I think should be the model for doing that sort of thing. It was even structured well enough for an issue with no real peril, giving Diana a...mild struggle before her inevitable victory, because hey, that ratchets up the tension at least a little bit if it looks like the...er, excuse the term, "face", looks to be losing early in the match before making the big comeback. If you have Diana walk all over whichever mind-controlled hero she's fighting that month from start to finish, why bother reading? I mean it might be fun once or twice, but there's a limit to how many squash matches you care to see.

Bottom line is for DC, Diana is it. And Marvel or those others don't really matter since you can't legit compare them even to the extent you can with PG and Diana, and they haven't crossed paths in that manner very often.

Though these days, Harley Quinn could probably beat Diana easily, do to the plot device of perceived popularity, (and I'm not convinced Harley's as popular as DC and WB think). Harley would come up with some sudden, never before seen superior to Batman and Diana fighting skills if it's a "serious" story, or a magic mallet or something if not, and just win. Well, maybe not, but I wouldn't be too surprised if that were to happen..

I don't think PG is more powerful than WW based on that fight. That fight showed them as power peers. While also showing Diana having better skills.

[achilles]

I don't think PG is more powerful than WW based on that fight. That fight showed them as power peers. While also showing Diana having better skills.

I agree that she's not. Having Diana speculate that she might be, based on some rather indirect language, (specifically Diana thought that PG is "at least as strong and as fast as I am"), was Simone being nice to PG fans. But then she seems very nice. I think the race is for the second most powerful/best fighter amongst the godlike set for the female heroes of DC, and just to be in the race was a nice thing for PG fans. Always give some victory, even minor, to the loser of those things is what I think. Even if its unrelated to the actual fight.

[Phoenixx9]

I agree that she's not. Having Diana speculate that she might be, based on some rather indirect language, (specifically Diana thought that PG is "at least as strong and as fast as I am"), was Simone being nice to PG fans. But then she seems very nice. I think the race is for the second most powerful/best fighter amongst the godlike set for the female heroes of DC, and just to be in the race was a nice thing for PG fans. Always give some victory, even minor, to the loser of those things is what I think. Even if its unrelated to the actual fight.

No she did not. I saw nothing to suggest that nor does it show Diana saying that. Also, PG was not mind controlled. She was fighting Diana and Diana took it easy on her so as to not hurt someone she considered a friend.

[achilles]

No she did not. I saw nothing to suggest that nor does it show Diana saying that. Also, PG was not mind controlled. She was fighting Diana and Diana took it easy on her so as to not hurt someone she considered a friend.

Er, she did say that. In the art not shown, which is the first two thirds of the book. And PG WAS mind controlled, though with the twist of magic. She was being magically mind controlled by some evil little god kids of Ares. Yes, Diana did simply end the fight with a headlock and the rather stereotypical "you're better than this" speech, though nicely it was tailored to PG's personality in this case. And that only happened after Diana realized the key to winning wasn't trying to overpower Kara, but to outfight her. Though...the sudden switch to such a degree was one of the things that didn't quite work for me. You don't go from, well let's face it, losing a fight, to suddenly winning because you suddenly understand you have to use your skill that you somehow haven't bothered to yet? I don't think it works that way. But the end of the fight was in character for both of them. Why did you think PG was fighting Diana, I wonder? It's not like she just would attack a respected peer because it's Monday. She had her reasons, (IIRC the magic worked by enhancing existing negative feelings, and it seems PG at least in that case had some...issues with Diana, which led to her mind being affected or something---she thought Diana was the bad guy). All of which happened in the art not posted, the first two acts. The third act has the big turnaround, and the relevant excerpts are what was posted, NOT the other stuff. But again, I don't think that one story tells anything about the OP, nor can you really find any other direct comparisons between them that do, as they rarely cross paths for whatever reason. At least not individually. I suppose you could compare their nu52 versions by comparing how each did against Darkseid, but that's weak IMO.

There was another case BTW, a bit earlier than that, Brave and the Bold...9(?) by Waid, the one where PG is AGAIN magically mind controlled into fighting Diana, (well, having her body controlled, not her mind, but functionally the same thing). Not much to say about that for the OP, since it was a case of a somewhat off-tempered but still rather normal for her PG catching a magic stone thrown at her and being taken over by the bad guy, who then uses PG to escape from Diana so as to murder Superman, (bad guy is Dr. Alchemy, who plans to turn the Fortress of solitude into Red Kryptonite, which somehow didn't effect PG though she had been shown to be hurt by it before...ahhh...

In that one, suddenly evil PG is shown suckerpunching Diana somewhat successfully in that by the time Diana dug herself out, PG was long gone on her murder mission. Bottom line is that Diana uses her jet to surprise evil PG and knock the stone out of her hand and restore good PG and stop the murder from happening. So...nothing to go on there. And that is AFAIK the only direct comparisons between Diana and PG.

Honestly, I think I'd much rather see PG as a more frequent guest character in Diana's book as a peer/friend; I think that would work rather well for PG, and Diana might get some nice stories out of it if nothing else. But PG as it is seems to barely know Diana, which is sad.

[marhawkman]

I don't think PG is more powerful than WW based on that fight. That fight showed them as power peers. While also showing Diana having better skills.

I kinda saw the ending as Diana memorizing PG's combat techniques and anticipating her moves.

[kjn]

No she did not. I saw nothing to suggest that nor does it show Diana saying that. Also, PG was not mind controlled. She was fighting Diana and Diana took it easy on her so as to not hurt someone she considered a friend.

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There is no mention of them going "easy" on each other. Diana might try to do so in the beginning, but Power Girl is all out from the start, and Diana's definitely not holding back by the end.

[AmiMizuno]

Okay when it comes to the their laser beam eyes. How resistant should Diana be?

[marhawkman]

Okay when it comes to the their laser beam eyes. How resistant should Diana be?

"Ow that hurts"? I can't really see a scenario where it's make sense for her to be able to take a punch, but not shrug off heat vision.

[achilles]

I kinda saw the ending as Diana memorizing PG's combat techniques and anticipating her moves.

Maybe. I'm still curious as to how someone like PG even got skills of her own at all without someone to spar and otherwise train with on her rough physical level. Diana has a good, classic explanation for HER skills, but PG has none for her own.

[achilles]

"Ow that hurts"? I can't really see a scenario where it's make sense for her to be able to take a punch, but not shrug off heat vision.

Possibly. Hard to say when you don't know how powerful heat vision ultimately is. The only thing there to note was that Diana bothered to take it on her bracelets, but then that's just decent sense if you happen to have them. And really, there's no sense to invulnerability as a power the way its shown, or in Diana's version that at least some times seems to have her vulnerable to bullets yet able to take punches from Supermen or Doomsdays...and no, the pointy bit thing just doesn't cut it as an explanation. Or why Kryptonians don't kill every squishy human they "save" by catching them when they fall from skyscrapers...into waiting arms harder than steel at usually full force of the fall. I'm going with a wizard doing it for these questions. Knowing said wizard might change his mind two issues down the road.

[AmiMizuno]

I agree. How can she survive a punch from Superman but not bullets? I feel there should be a balance. She should be resistant to bullets.

[Phoenixx9]

Er, she did say that. In the art not shown, which is the first two thirds of the book. And PG WAS mind controlled, though with the twist of magic. She was being magically mind controlled by some evil little god kids of Ares. Yes, Diana did simply end the fight with a headlock and the rather stereotypical "you're better than this" speech, though nicely it was tailored to PG's personality in this case. And that only happened after Diana realized the key to winning wasn't trying to overpower Kara, but to outfight her. Though...the sudden switch to such a degree was one of the things that didn't quite work for me. You don't go from, well let's face it, losing a fight, to suddenly winning because you suddenly understand you have to use your skill that you somehow haven't bothered to yet? I don't think it works that way. But the end of the fight was in character for both of them. Why did you think PG was fighting Diana, I wonder? It's not like she just would attack a respected peer because it's Monday. She had her reasons, (IIRC the magic worked by enhancing existing negative feelings, and it seems PG at least in that case had some...issues with Diana, which led to her mind being affected or something---she thought Diana was the bad guy). All of which happened in the art not posted, the first two acts. The third act has the big turnaround, and the relevant excerpts are what was posted, NOT the other stuff. But again, I don't think that one story tells anything about the OP, nor can you really find any other direct comparisons between them that do, as they rarely cross paths for whatever reason. At least not individually. I suppose you could compare their nu52 versions by comparing how each did against Darkseid, but that's weak IMO.

There was another case BTW, a bit earlier than that, Brave and the Bold...9(?) by Waid, the one where PG is AGAIN magically mind controlled into fighting Diana, (well, having her body controlled, not her mind, but functionally the same thing). Not much to say about that for the OP, since it was a case of a somewhat off-tempered but still rather normal for her PG catching a magic stone thrown at her and being taken over by the bad guy, who then uses PG to escape from Diana so as to murder Superman, (bad guy is Dr. Alchemy, who plans to turn the Fortress of solitude into Red Kryptonite, which somehow didn't effect PG though she had been shown to be hurt by it before...ahhh...

In that one, suddenly evil PG is shown suckerpunching Diana somewhat successfully in that by the time Diana dug herself out, PG was long gone on her murder mission. Bottom line is that Diana uses her jet to surprise evil PG and knock the stone out of her hand and restore good PG and stop the murder from happening. So...nothing to go on there. And that is AFAIK the only direct comparisons between Diana and PG.

Honestly, I think I'd much rather see PG as a more frequent guest character in Diana's book as a peer/friend; I think that would work rather well for PG, and Diana might get some nice stories out of it if nothing else. But PG as it is seems to barely know Diana, which is sad.

You are asking me what the writers had in mind? Wt? I don't know, lol!

As to PG, I do not think she has respect for Diana, or at least not enough. I have never seen her shown any respect. Pg thinks she is the biggest bossom, the biggest guns and strongest (fe)male. She gives no respect to her superior.

You keep making things up to make yourself right and targeting me to argue. I do not appreciate it at all, and I am calling you on it. I did not see Diana say PG was stronger nor any nonsense regarding mind controlled. I did not see Diana say PG was stronger nor any nonsense regarding mind controlled. Kara lost, simple as that.

[achilles]

You are asking me what the writers had in mind? Wt? I don't know, lol!

As to PG, I do not think she has respect for Diana, or at least not enough. I have never seen her shown any respect. Pg thinks she is the biggest bossom, the biggest guns and strongest (fe)male. She gives no respect to her superior.

You keep making things up to make yourself right and targeting me to argue. I do not appreciate it at all, and I am calling you on it. I did not see Diana say PG was stronger nor any nonsense regarding mind controlled. Kara lost, simple as that.

I'm not targeting you for anything. I responded to a post, and in a general sense (I wasn't just asking you that, but rather inviting general opinion), I don't pay attention to who posts, and in any case don't know you. Responding to this one, I might point out that I never said that Diana said that PG was stronger than she was, but that it can be interpreted that she implied that she herself didn't know, it was that close. Which BTW is in that above art, the bit where she says that PG is "at LEAST as strong and as fast as I am". Personally, I think she's a bit unsure, and a bit shocked at how strong PG was...I think Diana was guilty at the start of the thing of a bit of underestimating, and is acknowledging that, rather than giving any implications. But it is open to interpretation I suppose. Again, my take on the whole thing is it was interesting and fun, but nothing more; and it doesn't say anything really about the OP. Especially since it seems from the article that strength per say doesn't even have to be involved with some of the other characters. Honestly, I'm sure what they were going for there beyond the vs. thing, which I suppose IS the point, and if that's the case, you can say clearly that Diana won, and that's that. BTW, i made nothing up there, I have the issue in question and it's very well heavily read, so I'm not sure what you think I made up. I don't know, perhaps you simply haven't seen the whole thing?

Yes, PG probably has too little respect for Diana, but then that's a part of her character, flaw or no, and is one of the things that saves her from being bland. But normally she grows to respect those she gets to know...but from this and the few other one on one interactions the two have had, it seems they barely know one another, and I suspect there is an element of jealousy on PG's part as well, plus...she's never been known for being good with people, though one gets the impression she wishes she was...probably in part a thing that might make her jealous of Diana, who gets along with people much easier.

PG BTW doesn't "think she has the biggest..." in the sense of vanity, she's just acknowledging the in-universe joke that she does. Which...sad to say in this forum...sort of IS confirmed by Black Canary ironically in an observation TO Diana, who she says comes in second. It's just a joke that's probably harmed PG with DC more than helped her. Diana thankfully doesn't have to deal with that.