CBR list on female heroes stronger than Diana

[DochaDocha]

Bullets and bracelets didn't power scale through time as other Silver Age heroes' powers did. In 1945, blocking bullets with bracelets was probably extremely cool; I don't know, I wasn't around back then. By 1965, guns weren't nearly as ominous as the sci-fi and fantasy threats heroes were facing.

Decades later, creators were faced with a dilemma: if a thug tried to shoot WW or hit her with a pointy object, how should she address it? All of the other flying bricks just had to stand their ground and let the objects bounce off them harmlessly, but WW? You either observe the tradition or make her generic. I don't think either answer is completely correct without adding a lot of context to it, e.g. she does the brick routine unless the object can hurt the most powerful beings, she uses her bracelets because she can or she wants to prevent richocheting that could hurt bystanders, etc. I think the movie looked cooler for having the bullet-blocking scenes, but that makes her seem less powerful than other flying bricks.

In short, it's a strange Catch-22. It's like the stuff that looks cooler makes her seem less powerful, and the only way to manage both is if you do a lot of explaining, which could bog down a TV show or movie.

[Gaelforce]

Bullets and bracelets didn't power scale through time as other Silver Age heroes' powers did. In 1945, blocking bullets with bracelets was probably extremely cool; I don't know, I wasn't around back then. By 1965, guns weren't nearly as ominous as the sci-fi and fantasy threats heroes were facing.

Decades later, creators were faced with a dilemma: if a thug tried to shoot WW or hit her with a pointy object, how should she address it? All of the other flying bricks just had to stand their ground and let the objects bounce off them harmlessly, but WW? You either observe the tradition or make her generic. I don't think either answer is completely correct without adding a lot of context to it, e.g. she does the brick routine unless the object can hurt the most powerful beings, she uses her bracelets because she can or she wants to prevent richocheting that could hurt bystanders, etc. I think the movie looked cooler for having the bullet-blocking scenes, but that makes her seem less powerful than other flying bricks.

In short, it's a strange Catch-22. It's like the stuff that looks cooler makes her seem less powerful, and the only way to manage both is if you do a lot of explaining, which could bog down a TV show or movie.

Worse is that it's not just flying bricks - Aquaman and Batman are both bulletproof these days.

If a normal guy wearing armor is bulletproof, why isn't Diana? (or why isn't she wearing armor?)

[kjn]

In short, it's a strange Catch-22. It's like the stuff that looks cooler makes her seem less powerful, and the only way to manage both is if you do a lot of explaining, which could bog down a TV show or movie.

The movie showed one great bullets-and-bracelets move that really could have been emphaised more, when she deflects the bullet back onto Ludendorff's pistol. Do that type of stunt on a semi-regular basis, and bullets and bracelets starts to look like a power move again.

[BiteTheBullet]

Actually, about that part about big screen Diana...I don't recall if she was shown clearly flying or not, anyone know?

My thoughts about the issue of making Diana best at everything; strongest, most powerful, best fighter, wisest? Consider Godzilla. And Ghidorah. Who is more powerful? Well, the basic plot for mostly all of their screen fights is that Ghidorah kicks Godzilla's butt until the big G gets his inevitable power up to beat Ghidorah at the end. Or, Godzilla needs help from other monsters to win. But...is isn't Ghidorah who is "King of the Monsters", and Godzilla always does manage to pull off the win. It's an acknowledgment that having the hero...just blitz over everything and everyone because they are so flawless...actually makes for a pretty boring story, and a pretty boring character. Even when you know who's going to win, it's a pretty good idea to make the hero have to struggle a bit to at least make you think she might be in trouble.

She has yet to fly under her own power in any of her appearances in the DCEU. She has at best, hovered, and even that was somewhat ambiguous in her own movie. She is shown to be super leaping, possibly flying at the end of her movie, but this is just another ambiguous scene that can divide people one way or another.

If she can fly, then why hasn't she shown this ability in all the other movies she has been in? Why is this still a question to fans after all this time? Why and how does Cyborg fly before Wondy can, given that she has done this under her own power for the past 35 years or so? The only exceptions being the DCEU, her own animated movie, the first part of Justice League in the nu52 reboot and the can she/can't she dilemma that some of the comics writers throw to us only to show her flying many issues later.

Again, Wonder Woman gets shafted in the powers that have been given to her, probably because they think she will outshine Superman and the other manly Superhero's in her 'class'. Seems that Shazam had no problem flying!!

[WonderLight789]

Yeah, slightly less raw power, but better armaments and skills. I mean, it's not they could say she's got the best weapons, fighting abilities, AND power and not expect fan backlash.

But it's not like all fans and creators have the same vision for exactly how powerful WW should be. Some fans don't like the idea of bullets bouncing off her face. Other fans argue that the fact that she would otherwise have to use her bracelets to block bullets would necessarily drop her down a tier from the other flying bricks. In my book WW definitely flies, but some creators have decided they don't like that aesthetic. I don't think Patty Jenkins and (certainly not) Zack Snyder should have the final say on whether WW can fly, but I also wouldn't argue that their decision to keep her mostly earthbound isn't totally out of left field, either.

I think once you go beyond a certain point, such as having characters who can pull planets off their orbits, you're going to get a lot of disagreement on how powerful exactly these characters should be.

The thing is, Power level is not a problem for other characters. Superman more often than not is portrayed almost like a Jesús figure. He constantly shows great power. And that didn't stop him from having great stories. So it should be the same for Diana. She was created to be a powerhouse. She should be in the same class as superman and other heavy hitters.

[WonderLight789]

Actually, about that part about big screen Diana...I don't recall if she was shown clearly flying or not, anyone know?

My thoughts about the issue of making Diana best at everything; strongest, most powerful, best fighter, wisest? Consider Godzilla. And Ghidorah. Who is more powerful? Well, the basic plot for mostly all of their screen fights is that Ghidorah kicks Godzilla's butt until the big G gets his inevitable power up to beat Ghidorah at the end. Or, Godzilla needs help from other monsters to win. But...is isn't Ghidorah who is "King of the Monsters", and Godzilla always does manage to pull off the win. It's an acknowledgment that having the hero...just blitz over everything and everyone because they are so flawless...actually makes for a pretty boring story, and a pretty boring character. Even when you know who's going to win, it's a pretty good idea to make the hero have to struggle a bit to at least make you think she might be in trouble.

I think most people would be a bit bored by that. It's why OP characters are always a bit harder to write, and why Superman, (and other Kryptonians), were given silly nonsensical weaknesses like Kryptonite or red suns. Probably also why they went with the bracelets and bullets thing for Diana; it made her more interesting to give readers at least a bit of reason to be afraid for her with the understanding that she wasn't bullet proof, and that she needed skill. Not to mention its a cool visual.

In my oponion, if superman and other Kryptonians can still be shown as very powerful beings, then Diana should also be shown that way. She should be in their power class. She is meant to be. And with good writing. Power level shouldn't be a problem.

[achilles]

In my oponion, if superman and other Kryptonians can still be shown as very powerful beings, then Diana should also be shown that way. She should be in their power class. She is meant to be. And with good writing. Power level shouldn't be a problem.

Not saying she's not, but you notice that Kryptonians have all those special weaknesses and don't have her fighting skill.

[WonderLight789]

Not saying she's not, but you notice that Kryptonians have all those special weaknesses and don't have her fighting skill.

Well, one could say that bullets is also a dumb weakness. There is no reason to hide from powerhouses or create silly weaknesses. There is no reason why Diana can't be both, very powerful and skilled. I mean, she is supposed to be both. You just need to have the writing skills to know how to approach very powerful characters. I think fans just want to see Diana get her due. I haven't felt any excitement in a Wonder Woman story for a while. I had big hopes for gww, and it was another disappointment. I hope Orlando can change that. I have enjoyed his work so far.

[hgzip]

Not saying she's not, but you notice that Kryptonians have all those special weaknesses and don't have her fighting skill.

Initially (under Marston), Diana also had special weaknesses, that seem to have been dropped or forgotten over time. She could be knocked out with Chloroform, or by being hit on the head. This plot device was frequently used by Marston to get Diana into bondage, and/or for the evil guy to steal her lasso. Which brings up the next weakness: if her hands (actually her bracelets) where chained by a man, she lost her super-strength. This is sometimes generalized to say that if she is bound in any way by a man, she loses her strength. When she was tied up with her lasso, she didn't lose her strength; but the lasso is indestructible, so she couldn't break it to free herself - even with super-strength. Fortunately, tying each other up was a favorite game(!!!) of the Amazons on Paradise Island, and Diana is quite adept at wriggling out of bondage, even without using her strength.

The 'bound by a man' thing silently went away after the Perez reboot. However, I think I noticed a hidden reference in the novelization of the movie: During the final fight with Ares, he wraps her up with the tracks of a tank that was destroyed earlier. The novel says here that she suddenly feels weak, and is unable to break the tracks. This is not explained, but I assumed it's due to being bound by a man (well, a male god).

I suppose tying her up with her lasso would still work - it's still indestructible. However, she is so strong and fast now that it would be hard for most bad guys to get the drop on her and tie her up.

Another weakness of Diana (at least when Gail Simone writes her) is her compassion. When the evil guy threatens innocents, Diana is willing to sacrifice herself, or let the bad guy get away, to save them. This happened in a fight with the monster Genocide, or in the 'Gothamazon' story in Sensation Comics. Of course, you expect a certain amount of compassion and self-sacrifice from a superhero, but Gail makes it sound like a specific weakness that is targeted by the bad guys.

Well, one could say that bullets is also a dumb weakness.

Marston defined Wonder Woman as 'having the strength of Superman', so I feel that she should have gotten power upgrades over time, in the same way as Superman did. Which means she should be bulletproof by now. I can't really understand what Marston thought when he invented 'bullets and bracelets'. (I know that his girlfriend/mistress Olive Byrne always wore two large bracelets, and that he modeled Diana after her.) Even his target audience back then should have been able to ask 'what happens if the bad guy shoots her in the back?' Maybe the bad guys were not as ruthless back then... they also didn't use four-letter words

[Agent Z]

Considering how poorly Golden Age writing has aged, I don't see why current WW stories have to follow it. No one's arguing to bring back the Green Lantern weakness to yellow.

[WonderLight789]

Considering how poorly Golden Age writing has aged, I don't see why current WW stories have to follow it. No one's arguing to bring back the Green Lantern weakness to yellow.

But I think here is something that should make the bell ring for all of us. The writing in some of the Golden Age stories, is better than the last 2 runs we had. The best GA stories showed a far more active, powerful Diana, with a far more lively and also sassy personality. It says a lot, when the writing from the 40s( with flaws and all) has more to offer than what the more recent runs had in store.

[AmiMizuno]

She still isn’t bulletproof. She can still be shoot out. All heroes have weakness. With Diana her emotions should be enough or other magical weapons. I feel unlike Superman bullets shouldn’t bounce off her. They can go through her but don’t kill her. Rucka we saw that

[DochaDocha]

Even his target audience back then should have been able to ask 'what happens if the bad guy shoots her in the back?'

Same thing that happens when every other hero is targeted from behind: the shot never connects, for one reason or another.

Usually, the heroes are so hyper-aware that they always know where the enemies are and bad guys can't sneak up on them.

[SiegePerilous02]

Considering how poorly Golden Age writing has aged, I don't see why current WW stories have to follow it. No one's arguing to bring back the Green Lantern weakness to yellow.

GL fans don't really have to argue about it, since it was still canon last I checked. They just addressed the reasoning behind it and moved on from it.

Wonder Woman just keeps getting stuff rebooted away from her, which reinforces her franchise's lack of stability.

[AmiMizuno]

However, many themes are still the same. The most important is to bot lose sight of the character. Which is what Dc has done. They forget who Diana is.