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  1. #121
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    What I took away from the last two issues is that Bruce was never really broken and Bruce thinks Bane isn't smart. Which kind of defies a lot of what I thought King was trying to accomplish in this run. I wouldn't say it made the story better though. This run feels pointless now.

  2. #122

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    Maybe I'm wrong, but I have the feeling many writers are more interested to write great stories than write good stories; for example both Hickman's X-Men and King's Batman gave me this feeling.

  3. #123
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I have the feeling many writers are more interested to write great stories than write good stories; for example both Hickman's X-Men and King's Batman gave me this feeling.
    Do you mean you think they're shooting for more than they can accomplish and fall short?
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Batman definitely is NOT Gotham to me. He is actually not even a resident, since he lives in the suburbs rather than Gotham proper (or at least the manor was outside city limits post-COIE, I'm just assuming it still is). I have a big problem with Batman acting like the king of Gotham or like he owns it or gets to decide what other heroes work there, so he is definitely not the personification of the place to me, even if he is the most prominent vigilante.
    Oh, I was just making fun of Tom King. His run starts of with the I Am Gotham thing (though the title is obviously referencing Gotham and Gotham Girl, there's the allusion to Batman identifying with Gotham), in the last issue Catwoman says Gotham is hers, not Batman's. Playing on the whole bat/cat thing throughout King's run, I was making a joke about 'Batman is Gotham, Gotham is Catwoman's, therefore Batman belongs to Catwoman.'
    I don't really see Batman as the personification of Gotham either.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Do you mean you think they're shooting for more than they can accomplish and fall short?
    I don't want to speak for OP but, I think many writers approach these existing properties and instead of focusing on how they can write a good story within the existing properties and established universe, they are interested in making a grand, epic statement and world-redefining event, and this can sometimes lead to, say, the whole being 'appreciated' but the parts not working. This could be applicable to King, I don't think it is for Hickman's X-Men (at least I hope it doesn't turn out like that).

  6. #126

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    You explained perfectly what I mean.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 11-13-2019 at 04:27 AM.

  7. #127
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    King's not reaching high at all, which I think is a problem for many who are reading his run. For me personally, it doesn't matter. Snyder reached very high and his run was enjoyable, but in the end everything just snapped right back to the status quo again like always. Comics are about the journey, not the long-term effects.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  8. #128
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    King's not reaching high at all, which I think is a problem for many who are reading his run. For me personally, it doesn't matter. Snyder reached very high and his run was enjoyable, but in the end everything just snapped right back to the status quo again like always. Comics are about the journey, not the long-term effects.
    I think King's been more about the emotional high's then the story high's, although this whole storyline is big in a Morrison/Snyder-esque way.

  9. #129

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    King was aiming high in his own way, he wanted to forever change Batman with his run at least for a generation - the manner in which he thinks he can do this may set him up for failure but his intentions are there nonetheless.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think King's been more about the emotional high's then the story high's, although this whole storyline is big in a Morrison/Snyder-esque way.
    Since Morrison, each Batman writer has approached their run in a more "auteur" way, for better or worse. I liked Snyder okay but mostly thought it was juvenile and tryhard, although I think it aging nicely for me. I've enjoyed his run more on re-reads. There are certain things I don't like about his style, basically he's too pedantic, but with less of the New 52 context around it, and more of just as a Batman run, I like a lot of the ideas and contributions.

    The last three runs — Morrison, Snyder, King — have each taken places in separate universes, each starting with a somewhat clean slate from a soft reboot, which heightens the situation too. But really every long-tenured Batman writer has tried to leave their mark, they all have different approaches to that but usually their larger arc tends to be built around a proxy character.

    For King, that's Gotham Girl, and Catwoman, and Flashpoint Batman.
    For Snyder it was Duke, and Batman's narration
    For Morrison it was Damian and Talia
    For Greg Rucka it was Sasha Bordeaux, Jim Gordon, the GCPD, Renee Montoya, Two-Face, Batwoman
    For Doug Moench it was Batman's narration style, Lt. Kitch, Sarah Essen, Huntress

    Same with 'Tec

    For Chuck Dixon it was Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Oracle, Birds of Prey, Bane
    Steve Englehart is Silver and Dr Strange
    Denny O Neil is Batman's narration, Leslie Thompkins, Ra's al Ghul, Jean Paul Valley
    Last edited by gregpersons; 11-14-2019 at 03:00 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    Since Morrison, each Batman writer has approached their run in a more "auteur" way, for better or worse. I liked Snyder okay but mostly thought it was juvenile and tryhard, although I think it aging nicely for me. I've enjoyed his run more on re-reads. There are certain things I don't like about his style, basically he's too pedantic, but with less of the New 52 context around it, and more of just as a Batman run, I like a lot of the ideas and contributions.

    The last three runs — Morrison, Snyder, King — have each taken places in separate universes, each starting with a somewhat clean slate from a soft reboot, which heightens the situation too. But really every long-tenured Batman writer has tried to leave their mark, they all have different approaches to that but usually their larger arc tends to be built around a proxy character.

    For King, that's Gotham Girl, and Catwoman, and Flashpoint Batman.
    For Snyder it was Duke, and Batman's narration
    For Morrison it was Damian and Talia
    For Greg Rucka it was Sasha Bordeaux, Jim Gordon, the GCPD, Renee Montoya, Two-Face, Batwoman
    For Doug Moench it was Batman's narration style, Lt. Kitch, Sarah Essen, Jean Paul Valley, Huntress

    Same with 'Tec

    For Chuck Dixon it was Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Oracle, Birds of Prey, Bane
    Steve Englehart is Silver and Dr Strange
    Denny O Neil is Batman's narration, Leslie Thompkins, Ra's al Ghul
    Duke didn’t have much to do with Snyder’s run during the New52. He didn’t even show up until about half way through the run and really didn’t have much impact on anything.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think King's been more about the emotional high's then the story high's, although this whole storyline is big in a Morrison/Snyder-esque way.
    Maybe. The run hasn't been very emotional, for me, as much as it is about stuff like mental illness, especially PTSD but a little bit about DID as well. Not that Batman is being portrayed as mentally ill, because its just the opposite. I see the portrayal of Batman in the run as a kind of answer or response to how one can cope with mental stress by never giving up on yourself or your friends. Its simple and straightforward, but also very "Batman" to me. And its a lesson neither Bane or DadBats ever have learned. They only know manipulation and control, similar to most of Batman's villains.

    But anyway I also get the feeling that the run is just going to end in an unceremonious kind of way, giving people yet another reason to hate on King. The only real thing I am hoping will stick afterwards is that Batman and Catwoman will retain a good level of trust and closeness.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

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