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  1. #1
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Default Surtur (MCU) Vs King Ghidorah (Godzilla: King of the Monsters)

    Giant Surtur from the end of Thor: Ragnarok takes on King Ghidorah from the recent King of the Monsters movie.

    How goes it?

  2. #2

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    G is a seriously tough monster but I can't imagine he wins this fight.

    If Surtur is throwing out island busting attacks, that should be enough to 10 count the guy or flat out vaporize him.
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  3. #3
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    It could very well end similarly to how Burning Godzilla all but crippled Ghidorah. Only instead of stomping on Ghidorah, it's Surtur burying the Twilight Sword deep in Ghidorah's chest and unleashing hell. I don't think it'd be enough to kill the alien hydra, but it'd be enough to hinder him. Considering how Surtur's sword instantly disintegrated Hela on contact and then proceeded to demolish Asgard, I'd say that's a likely conclusion.

    With that said, Ghidorah's faster, more mobile, and might be able to restrain Surtur long enough to siphon his power. It's a race to see who hits who first as both titans possess strength/firepower that outperform their respective durabilities.
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  4. #4
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I don't think that Ghidorah has close to the firepower needed to hurt Surtur. Ghidorah isn't even close to city-busting levels - he's like a city-block-buster. Surtur laughs at that.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I don't think that Ghidorah has close to the firepower needed to hurt Surtur. Ghidorah isn't even close to city-busting levels - he's like a city-block-buster. Surtur laughs at that.
    I mean, that's totally not true based on his feats. He can one shot KO a creature who is fine sitting within an erupting volcano that was sending out kilometer wide shockwaves.

    Scale =/= oomph. At least not always. Just because the city didn't blow up every time he fired a blast doesn't mean his blasts don't pack a much bigger wallop then a few city blocks.
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  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan are demonstrably higher than city-block level. King Ghidorah either a) overpowered them or b) killed them outright.
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  7. #7
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hellís Brigade's Avatar
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    I mean, that’s like saying Surtur is a wimp because he a) lost to a near featless Odin off screen, and b) got rocked back by a single Hulk punch.

    I feel King Ghidorah hits hella harder then a Hulk punch myself.
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  8. #8
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I mean, that's totally not true based on his feats. He can one shot KO a creature who is fine sitting within an erupting volcano that was sending out kilometer wide shockwaves.

    Scale =/= oomph. At least not always. Just because the city didn't blow up every time he fired a blast doesn't mean his blasts don't pack a much bigger wallop then a few city blocks.
    So where would you place him? It seems like love for the KoM movie is pretty inflationary with the capacities of the beasties involved. None of Zilla or the others did anything like hitting hard enough to waste entirely even a few city blocks. The alleged cat 5 hurricane didn't stop planes flying through them, and it DEFINITELY had nothing like the effect of randomly generating massive storms from nothing would do to the surface of the earth.

    This isn't even getting into how much bigger Surtur was then they are. He's large enough to grab a couple of heads and just rip them apart. He was TOWERING over Asgard's castle, a building in itself that is pretty ridiculously massive.

    I enjoyed KoM to some extent as well, but it seems like we are giving these beasties a lot of capabilities that they simply haven't shown.
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  9. #9
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan are demonstrably higher than city-block level. King Ghidorah either a) overpowered them or b) killed them outright.
    When you say the thing that I've bolded above, it kind of feels like you are mis-using this word. Demonstrably would mean that you can, you know, demonstrate this. Something that, unless I'm mistaken (and being fair, I've only seen each film once), you just can't do.

    Please, show me ONE instance of any of the three of them obliterating completely a "standard" city block - you know, a Manhattan sized one. Not "smashed through." Not "knocked over a bunch of" - completely busted.

    And I'm willing to stip to THAT level of force or power just fine, even higher! But nothing REMOTELY close to city busting, given that they never do anything remotely on that level, and nothing even in their presentation is at that level. And Surtur is pretty well beyond that.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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  10. #10
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    For clarification, my argument contends that Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, and King Ghidorah are demonstrably more durable than city-block level attacks.

    Godzilla withstood multiple nuclear explosions, two of which were point-blank. Rodan, after living in molten lava, emerged out of an erupting volcano.

    Ghidorah's attacks either incapacitated or wounded Godzilla and Rodan. That proves two things: 1) Godzilla and Rodan are durable enough to withstand city-block busting attacks and 2) Ghidorah's attacks are clearly higher because they wounded the former.


    Also, Surtur's size has been greatly exaggerated.

    https://imgur.com/Eiqn2aW

    When we compare Hulk's 2.5-meter height to Surtur, it's plainly obvious Surtur is neither large enough nor strong enough to physically manhandle Ghidorah.
    Click here to watch: GODZILLA vs. LEGION
    An otherworldly threat descends upon the Earth and only a beast of legend possesses the power to stop it. Who will win in this clash of titans: King of the Monsters or Queen of the Swarm?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    When you say the thing that I've bolded above, it kind of feels like you are mis-using this word. Demonstrably would mean that you can, you know, demonstrate this. Something that, unless I'm mistaken (and being fair, I've only seen each film once), you just can't do.

    Please, show me ONE instance of any of the three of them obliterating completely a "standard" city block - you know, a Manhattan sized one. Not "smashed through." Not "knocked over a bunch of" - completely busted.

    And I'm willing to stip to THAT level of force or power just fine, even higher! But nothing REMOTELY close to city busting, given that they never do anything remotely on that level, and nothing even in their presentation is at that level. And Surtur is pretty well beyond that.
    Again, you seem pretty intent on scale of effect being the most important factor. Rodan (and others) have feats that put their durability at well beyond "city block" damage levels. Like massively beyond - but Ghidorah does them up fine.

    In comics, we see Surfer survive supernova etc etc so we know how tough Odin's attacks are when he one shots the guy even though that particular attack from Odin didn't mess up a city block worth of space. Make sense?

    Rodan no-sells volcano eruptions (which DO include scale of effect on screen) so we know how potent Ghidorahs attack is, just like Odin and Surfer.

    Similarly, Godzilla was dropped at altitudes great enough to cause the fireball effect and the impact created a city spanning shockwave. His 100k ton frame would have created an impact with huge energy involved. While badly hurt, he was still conscious. Ghidorah knocks him over and makes him scream in pain from single bursts. 3 shots at once temporarily rag doll him and the AoE created visible harm.

    Titans have on screen examples of creating or ignoring just about every natural disaster known to man (tsunami's, earthquakes, hurricanes and volcanic eruptions) but none of these things are more then either a mild annoyance or a side effect of them doing a thing. They are stupid strong and stupid durable but despite that, Ghidorah manhandles the best of them just fine.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 11-05-2019 at 12:02 PM.
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  12. #12
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    What the diggity dag nabbit is happening here. Do I need to bust out Sir Cthulhu Attenborough to narrate this ?
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  13. #13
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    For clarification, my argument contends that Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, and King Ghidorah are demonstrably more durable than city-block level attacks.

    Godzilla withstood multiple nuclear explosions, two of which were point-blank. Rodan, after living in molten lava, emerged out of an erupting volcano.

    Ghidorah's attacks either incapacitated or wounded Godzilla and Rodan. That proves two things: 1) Godzilla and Rodan are durable enough to withstand city-block busting attacks and 2) Ghidorah's attacks are clearly higher because they wounded the former.
    I definitely argue against using the nuke for Zilla: it's like using a yellow sun as a durability feat for Superman. It explicitly powers him up and, further, it heals him.

    And again, in the posts above I said I'd be more than willing to stip to them being somewhere comfortably above city block busting levels of force. Just that they are nowhere close to, say, city busting. And Surtur is miles beyond that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    Also, Surtur's size has been greatly exaggerated.

    https://imgur.com/Eiqn2aW

    When we compare Hulk's 2.5-meter height to Surtur, it's plainly obvious Surtur is neither large enough nor strong enough to physically manhandle Ghidorah.
    I strongly suggest that you watch the scene from the movie again, and not just that one image. Surtur is multiple times as tall as the snow-capped mountains around Asgard-ville. Asgards' buildings don't go up to his knees or certainly not his waist. You are absolutely correct that they screwed up the scale in that one scene with Hulk on his forehead, but even as Hulk is jumping in toward Surtur, you see Hulk shrink to, relatively, nothing in scale to Surtur. They just made a scaling error there.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Again, you seem pretty intent on scale of effect being the most important factor. Rodan (and others) have feats that put their durability at well beyond "city block" damage levels. Like massively beyond - but Ghidorah does them up fine.

    In comics, we see Surfer survive supernova etc etc so we know how tough Odin's attacks are when he one shots the guy even though that particular attack from Odin didn't mess up a city block worth of space. Make sense?

    Rodan no-sells volcano eruptions (which DO include scale of effect on screen) so we know how potent Ghidorahs attack is, just like Odin and Surfer.

    Similarly, Godzilla was dropped at altitudes great enough to cause the fireball effect and the impact created a city spanning shockwave. His 100k ton frame would have created an impact with huge energy involved. While badly hurt, he was still conscious. Ghidorah knocks him over and makes him scream in pain from single bursts. 3 shots at once temporarily rag doll him and the AoE created visible harm.

    Titans have on screen examples of creating or ignoring just about every natural disaster known to man (tsunami's, earthquakes, hurricanes and volcanic eruptions) but none of these things are more then either a mild annoyance or a side effect of them doing a thing. They are stupid strong and stupid durable but despite that, Ghidorah manhandles the best of them just fine.
    That was very well presented and... there is no real need to argue any of it.

    Again, I said straight up that I'd be more than happy to agree that they are above city block busting levels of force - comfortably above such levels!

    I asked you to try to qualify more precisely than that just how hard they hit, which will give us a range on how hard they CAN BE hit. You don't need to prove city block busting. I didn't ask you to. I mentioned that it's never "demonstrated" hence not eligible for the word "demonstrable," but also never really tried to argue that they are not stronger than that. Yes, I did say that they are closer to city block busting than city busting, but that's not something that I think any of you are trying to argue against, are you?

    Also, like the Zilla/nuke thing, I got the impression that Rodan was a creature of fire and volcanoes, hence him comfortably no-selling the volcano. Kind of like the MUTOs and radiation, Godzilla with - nobody possibly knows why - nuclear explosions that don't behave remotely like nuclear explosions, Superman with sun, etc. I'm pretty leery with using that as a starting point.

    When the beasties fight, we see them punching and biting and wrestling. Those attacks don't really behave like city-busters. The impact of Godzilla hitting the ground, the impact that really messed him up, categorically did NOT bust a city. Which makes it MASSIVELY less than what Surtur can dish, what we see him dish on-screen.
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  14. #14
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    What the diggity dag nabbit is happening here. Do I need to bust out Sir Cthulhu Attenborough to narrate this ?
    You really don't need to, but why wouldn't you?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    That was very well presented and... there is no real need to argue any of it.
    *spits out bagel*

    ....wha... whaaa....
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