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  1. #16

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    This is some sort of trick. Some sort of clever trap I am ill prepared for! :P

    Nevertheless, I have a few things to add:

    1: I do actually think Surtur wins this fight. See my first post.

    2: Surtur is typically shown much larger then that one Hulk clip, yes, although it's hard to judge with certainty because his scale is sort of all over the place from scene to scene. I think he's bigger then Ghidorah for sure.

    3: Even if you give Rodan a pass on temperatures, the volcano was mostly a sheer force / shockwave / kinetic energy explosion thing. The lava wouldn't have bothered either of the alphas either.

    4: I have sooooo much to say about the nuke stuff but I'll let Tomzilla have a pass at that first seeing as he brought it up. I dont think the Superman analogy quite works though.

    5: You are asking specifically where I would put their damage output in terms of scaled events like city busting and whatever? Hmm. I'll have to think. Sharp seems to think (in a recent thread) that a character named Grougaloragran would have trouble hurting the top tier Titans, and Grou can reshape shorelines and get punted through mountains in his fights. Not to throw Sharp under the bus or anything here with the name drop- I've just never bothered to think of the damage scale in this way so I'm not sure how to respond.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 11-05-2019 at 01:58 PM.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  2. #17
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    *spits out bagel*

    ....wha... whaaa....
    Hey man, all I have is love for anyone on this board. Agreeing ALL the time would be boring. Agreeing some of the time makes it fun.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
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  3. #18
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    This is some sort of trick. Some sort of clever trap I am ill prepared for! :P

    Nevertheless, I have a few things to add:

    1: I do actually think Surtur wins this fight. See my first post.
    Yup, I know! Another reason why I really wasn't too concerned with arguing anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    2: Surtur is typically shown much larger then that one Hulk clip, yes, although it's hard to judge with certainty because his scale is sort of all over the place from scene to scene. I think he's bigger then Ghidorah for sure.
    That's my impression. How DARE Marvel and Waititi not consider how the scene will be used for Rumbles when they made it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    3: Even if you give Rodan a pass on temperatures, the volcano was mostly a sheer force / shockwave / kinetic energy explosion thing. The lava wouldn't have bothered either of the alphas either.
    I hear you - more on this in a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    4: I have sooooo much to say about the nuke stuff but I'll let Tomzilla have a pass at that first seeing as he brought it up. I dont think the Superman analogy quite works though.
    I'll wait for Tomzilla's reply to go into too much detail then as well. Short form, for movie makers, like for many people, "radiation" is the scary spooky damaging thing especially associated with nuclear explosions (or nuclear anything). If you ask most people what kills you from a nuclear bomb, they'd probably snap reply radiation. Directors are part of that, and moreover, they are writing for people who believe that. So a nuke is really just a thing that spits out a bunch of radiation. Even if radiation charged you up (which it explicitly does for Godzilla), you're probably not going to feel all that great from the heat and the concussion. But in any case, the fact that it DOES charge him up (and every other titan it's ever used against) kind of rules out it being a durability feat.

    Tying that to Superman - it's "yellow sun radiation" or "yellow sunlight" that charge him up. First off, that stuff wouldn't EXIST at the center of a sun. But no worries: being charged by the stuff doesn't really explain why that makes him suddenly immune to the fusion reactions going off constantly in his face, or the catastrophic forces of gravity involved.

    And yes, I know that I left "WTF is that energy you are talking about anyway?????" and "How does absorbing it charge him?" and "How does being closer for a short period of time boost him when living under it for decades sticks him at a pretty constant level?" kinds of things off my "this is really a stupid explanation for powers" list, but there's only so pedantic one can be at this hour.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    5: You are asking specifically where I would put their damage output in terms of scaled events like city busting and whatever? Hmm. I'll have to think. Sharp seems to think (in a recent thread) that a character named Grougaloragran would have trouble hurting the top tier Titans, and Grou can reshape shorelines and get punted through mountains in his fights. Not to throw Sharp under the bus or anything here with the name drop- I've just never bothered to think of the damage scale in this way so I'm not sure how to respond.
    Oh I hear you - it was a purely honest question so that we can debate the power they can output and tank, basically. I don't have a preconceived notion that I'm too stuck too. As of now, it's a biiiiiiiiiiit fluid, and they seem to come up pretty frequently in rumbles these days.
    Last edited by big_adventure; 11-05-2019 at 02:15 PM.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

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  4. #19
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I definitely argue against using the nuke for Zilla: it's like using a yellow sun as a durability feat for Superman. It explicitly powers him up and, further, it heals him.

    And again, in the posts above I said I'd be more than willing to stip to them being somewhere comfortably above city block busting levels of force. Just that they are nowhere close to, say, city busting. And Surtur is miles beyond that.
    Nuclear weapons energize Godzilla with its radiation. But there's still the enormous heat and destructive force, which Godzilla is durable enough to weather. That's what makes him incredibly durable. Even still, Godzilla's power to absorb radiation has his limits; too much radiation does have the unfortunate side effect of turning him into a ticking time bomb.

    The same applies to other Godzillas, by the way. Just because a Godzilla absorbs radiation doesn't mean they're completely immune to it. GMK Godzilla was severely injured by his own Atomic Breath; Heisei eventually died because he absorbed too much. This is why I would advise discounting a feat just because radiation is involved.


    With that said, Godzilla has another noteworthy durability feat: After crushing Ghidorah's chest in with a heavy stomp, Godzilla was exposed to a massive eruption of energy that left a huge crater. At ground zero of the blast, we see Godzilla left completely unscathed.


    I strongly suggest that you watch the scene from the movie again, and not just that one image. Surtur is multiple times as tall as the snow-capped mountains around Asgard-ville. Asgards' buildings don't go up to his knees or certainly not his waist. You are absolutely correct that they screwed up the scale in that one scene with Hulk on his forehead, but even as Hulk is jumping in toward Surtur, you see Hulk shrink to, relatively, nothing in scale to Surtur. They just made a scaling error there.
    I took your suggestion and watched the scene again. I will concede the scaling is off and Surtur is meant to be much larger than he's sometimes presented. However, I don't think Surtur is strong enough to physically overpower Ghidorah. Unless, of course, you can prove Surtur is strong enough to do just that.

    Keep in mind, I'm still leaning towards Surtur here, but it's not because of his inhuman strength. The key to his amazing power lies in his Twilight Sword, which is what destroyed Asgard.


    But here's a thought: What would happen if Ghidorah knocked off his crown?
    Click here to watch: GODZILLA vs. LEGION
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  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Hey man, all I have is love for anyone on this board. Agreeing ALL the time would be boring. Agreeing some of the time makes it fun.
    I'm just giving you a hard time :P

    Part of the reason I enjoy debating with you so much is because I know you have thick skin for opposing views and because you force me to really think about my position.

    *ahem* Thor still sux tho
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  6. #21

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    Ok, so I'm going to try and write out my general position on the nuke scene and why I feel so weird about it. There are several ways you can look at it.

    1: As Tomzilla says, the radiation charges him but it's just a fraction of the total ouch a nuke provides in the forms of kinetic force and heat. The fact that it gives him a boost at all means those other factors are trivially ignored by Big G. Like the nuke does so little damage to him that he is able to reap the full benefits of the tiny total energy released in the form of radiation.

    2: Potentially as Big says, Hollywood r dum and we shouldn't over think it. A kernel of truth here as well - it's like Pendaran says whenever somebody tries to provide calculations for Gladiator planet busting or whatever, "those sure are a lot of cool numbers that have nothing to do with comics".

    3: My personal favorite head canon interpretation of events that does its best to remain consistent with the MonsterVerse is thus: Nukes don't affect Godzilla much. Neither in the form of damage taken, nor in the form of potential snack quality. He doesn't get much of a boost and they don't hurt that bad.

    My reasoning is thus- we see him take megaton yield nukes on screen in Godzilla 2014. Right in the intro. Again in a canon comic, we see G walk off a nuke that kills a different Titan just fine. Lots of nukes have canon hit Godzilla and NOT made him go meltdown or Burning mode. Monarch thought he was gonna explode after Serizawas nuke. Why? Why didn't previous large yield nukes trigger a meltdown? Answer: Nukes just don't pack enough oomph to hurt him nor enough juice to charge him.

    What made Serizawas nuke trigger a different reaction? If anything, G was already super drained and on death's door trying to sleep off the oxygen destroyer. Seems like with his reserves near empty, this would be the LEAST likely time to trigger an overload compared to all his previous nuke exposures.

    The answer is Godzilla's house. The ancient temple was already leaking tremendous amounts of radiation. Enough to knock out electrical systems and kill a man in minutes. A quick Google of Roetgen exposure shows that Godzilla was already exposing himself to multiple Hiroshimas worth of radiation every hour before the nuke was even detonated. My best guess is that when Serizawa blew up G's "house", it cracked open the wellspring of power that was slow feeding Godzilla and allowed him to be exposed to the total quantity of radiation all at once instead of the drip feed that had been happening. It's like... the only way to make sense of the feat given the context of G's previous canon encounters with nuclear weapons.

    TL;DR - when the Nuke broke Godzilla's house he absorbed ALL the radiation the temple had to offer at once. It makes sense given other nukes haven't powered him.

    This is my personal favorite explanation but mileage MEGA might vary here :P

    Personally, I try to keep nukes out of Titan feat discussions altogether.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  7. #22
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    People are being so damn reasonable.

    OK...

    I lean towards the last line of what ARBY 2AM said above this: I try to keep nukes out of this, due to nukes... not remotely functioning like actual nuclear weapons in these scenes and events in this film. Even radiation doesn't function like this: nuclear radiation isn't going to interfere with radio waves, for example, but WATER sure as hell is going to block them completely after a very short distance, and STONE will do even more. And of course it's not just the nuke, or the radiation: something the size of Godzilla falling from great height isn't going to turn into a comet. Things do that when they hit the atmosphere ALREADY MOVING at thousands of meters per second velocities. Starting from zero wouldn't do it. And, if it DID, it would do the same thing to Ghidorah. And Ghidorah flies using wings. Said wings would have nothing to purchase with the density of air - and he doesn't have giant rocket engines mounted on his butt.

    It's almost like the screenwriters didn't care how we'd interpret these things, if it gave them some fan-pleasing visuals.

    Also, Godzilla has been hurt (slightly to massively) by things that are, on screen, nothing remotely on the order of a nuke's actual heat and concussion output. Not even CLOSE. In fact, he's GENERALLY hurt or killed by such things. So for me, the only way to explain it is that he's getting a LOT of oomph from the nuke's radiation, enough to let him ride out the damage of the nuke, OR you just have to admit that the filmaker decided to say "screw it, nobody cares about how radiation or nuclear weapon actually work, people want giant beastie fights, so let's make giant beastie fights (which they then screw up entirely with shaky-cam, hundreds of cuts, wayyyyyyyy to much blackness, showing people during the fights instead of the monsters, etc. but that's another story entirely).

    To point back to the "on screen scale" argument from before: it's true that, Buu, for example, doesn't explode the planet with each blast he hits Goku or Vegeta with. BUUUUUUUUT we know that Buu himself, and characters weaker than Buu, have exploded planets with similar, casual shots. Thus, Buu is a planet smasher, and people who can tank his hits are planet-smasher tankers. Here, Ghidorah has precisely zero feats for smashing a city with a single shot (or anything remotely close), so I'm super duper leery about handing over that power based on other things' durability feats that have lots of questions about them.

    tl;dr :

    If you go under the idea that Big G can no-sell nukes, you're saying that stuff Ghidorah does to him is way way way beyond "nuke" level. And that, to me, simply doesn't track with the stuff we see on-screen. And it also ignores the fact that Big G is flat-out amped by the radiation in the nukes, which may explain his ability to ignore everything else about them, la Superman stone cold chillin' like a villain inside a sun.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
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  8. #23
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post


    But here's a thought: What would happen if Ghidorah knocked off his crown?
    I forgot to answer this one:

    And the answer is... I don't know. I don't know if you even CAN knock it off once it's been charged, and Surtur is grown to his full form and size. The MCU Asgard departs pretty massively from myths. Hulk pounded on it several times, and didn't come visibly close to dislodging it. Hela, who presumably knows about it and how it works to some extent, given how she recognized Surtur immediately, didn't try to do so. We just don't have enough information.

    In any event, he isn't going to get close enough, given Surtur's trivial one-shot capability here and his massive reach advantage.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  9. #24

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    Ok, I've given it a lot of thought and here is my answer.

    Yes, I believe MonsterVerse Titans, especially the top alphas, are around city buster level if you were to try to place their feats into that sort of measurement scale. I also don't think you need to use the nuke feats from the MonsterVerse to show they operate at that level and up either. Nukes are generally "city busters" as well.

    Again, I don't think Godzilla/Ghidorah can blow up a city - they lack an attack that can cover that raw scale and distance - but I think they can survive a city busting attack and dish out pain to opponents who could also survive city busting attacks.

    My evidence:

    1: Rodan basically busts a city as the second thing he does on screen. Just by flying a few hundred meters above it. As in, he does MASSIVE structural damage on a wide scale to a city (Roofs are getting torn apart, people tossed hundreds of feet, entire city buses launched like toys through the air) when the city wasn't even his target. Later on he slams full speed, head on into Ghidorah and doesn't manage to hurt him.

    2: The volcano feat. Did some digging online and discovered that volcanoes dish out waaay more energy in their initial eruptions (not shield volcanoes - I'm talking St. Helens style) then a nuke produces. I'm not talking about the total energy released over days, I mean the initial boom alone. Rodan basically ignores this. Even if you dont want to use real life examples of eruptions, the scale of the volcano in movie is still "shockwaves from said eruption push around fishing boats kilometers away" level. Whats ALSO important to note here is that Rodan causes the eruption and releases himself. It's not like the volcano naturally erupts and he is freed. The thing gets set off from his struggle to respond to the ORCA. So... Rodan is literally in the "causes volcanic eruptions" tier based on strength alone as a side effect of his struggles. It's a very good feat.

    3: Godzilla literally creates a tsunami just because he decides to haul ass swimming. I dont mean he causes a big wave because of splashing... I mean a proper tsunami complete with the ocean draining effect to precede the event. He killed thousands of people and swamped a decent portion of a city because he swam fast. Again, this is an unintended side effect of his actions and not something he was actively bothering to accomplish. Another quick google confirms that nukes don't put out nearly as much energy as a naturally occurring tsunami, not even the smaller ones.

    4: The male MUTO is probably the smallest and weakest Titan we have seen except for perhaps Mothra. Yet even in its smaller weaker larval form, it was creating earthquakes that were detectable hundreds of miles away and making nuclear engineers consider shutting down powerplants for fear of associated damage. I can't recall what number on the Richter scale these earthquakes get, but again Google confirms most earthquakes put out a lot more energy then most nukes. Other Titans in KoTM are cited as triggering earthquakes after Ghidorah wakes them up. Fun fact: male MUTO also carried a nuclear sub a hundred miles or so as strength feat that puts Aquamans to shame.

    5: Miscellaneous scaled events round! Stuff thats impressive and shows scale but is harder to judge.

    A: MUTO create EMP pulses that span multiple miles.
    B: Ghidorah and Godzilla create a city spanning shockwave by tackling each other.
    C: Godzilla's drop from low orbit creates a bigger city spanning shockwave.
    D: Godzilla is HUUURT but survives the Oxygen Destroyer which has an area of effect measurable in miles and does.... whatever it does to Oxygen in it's simple and complex forms.
    E: Mothra parts the clouds in an instant and creates a shockwave that disturbs the ocean a kilometer or more away just by showing up.
    F: Ghidorahs biology is dumping out enough power to generate hurricanes just by being alive. His canon Monarch file says it's a combo of his wings flapping and an electrical transmission of energy from his body to the atmosphere that creates a storm system. Even small hurricanes generate way more energy then a nuke during their lifetimes and he is literally powering one.
    G: The Titan's were reversing global warming and seeding life to the planet in the post credits scene of KoTM.

    Phew! Did I put anybody to sleep yet?? :P

    Its for all these reasons I believe a mid to high tier Titan is somewhere beyond Nuke level and therefore around or slightly beyond "city buster" level.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  10. #25
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Ok, I've given it a lot of thought and here is my answer.

    Yes, I believe MonsterVerse Titans, especially the top alphas, are around city buster level if you were to try to place their feats into that sort of measurement scale. I also don't think you need to use the nuke feats from the MonsterVerse to show they operate at that level and up either. Nukes are generally "city busters" as well.

    Again, I don't think Godzilla/Ghidorah can blow up a city - they lack an attack that can cover that raw scale and distance - but I think they can survive a city busting attack and dish out pain to opponents who could also survive city busting attacks.

    My evidence:

    1: Rodan basically busts a city as the second thing he does on screen. Just by flying a few hundred meters above it. As in, he does MASSIVE structural damage on a wide scale to a city (Roofs are getting torn apart, people tossed hundreds of feet, entire city buses launched like toys through the air) when the city wasn't even his target. Later on he slams full speed, head on into Ghidorah and doesn't manage to hurt him.

    2: The volcano feat. Did some digging online and discovered that volcanoes dish out waaay more energy in their initial eruptions (not shield volcanoes - I'm talking St. Helens style) then a nuke produces. I'm not talking about the total energy released over days, I mean the initial boom alone. Rodan basically ignores this. Even if you dont want to use real life examples of eruptions, the scale of the volcano in movie is still "shockwaves from said eruption push around fishing boats kilometers away" level. Whats ALSO important to note here is that Rodan causes the eruption and releases himself. It's not like the volcano naturally erupts and he is freed. The thing gets set off from his struggle to respond to the ORCA. So... Rodan is literally in the "causes volcanic eruptions" tier based on strength alone as a side effect of his struggles. It's a very good feat.

    3: Godzilla literally creates a tsunami just because he decides to haul ass swimming. I dont mean he causes a big wave because of splashing... I mean a proper tsunami complete with the ocean draining effect to precede the event. He killed thousands of people and swamped a decent portion of a city because he swam fast. Again, this is an unintended side effect of his actions and not something he was actively bothering to accomplish. Another quick google confirms that nukes don't put out nearly as much energy as a naturally occurring tsunami, not even the smaller ones.

    4: The male MUTO is probably the smallest and weakest Titan we have seen except for perhaps Mothra. Yet even in its smaller weaker larval form, it was creating earthquakes that were detectable hundreds of miles away and making nuclear engineers consider shutting down powerplants for fear of associated damage. I can't recall what number on the Richter scale these earthquakes get, but again Google confirms most earthquakes put out a lot more energy then most nukes. Other Titans in KoTM are cited as triggering earthquakes after Ghidorah wakes them up. Fun fact: male MUTO also carried a nuclear sub a hundred miles or so as strength feat that puts Aquamans to shame.

    5: Miscellaneous scaled events round! Stuff thats impressive and shows scale but is harder to judge.

    A: MUTO create EMP pulses that span multiple miles.
    B: Ghidorah and Godzilla create a city spanning shockwave by tackling each other.
    C: Godzilla's drop from low orbit creates a bigger city spanning shockwave.
    D: Godzilla is HUUURT but survives the Oxygen Destroyer which has an area of effect measurable in miles and does.... whatever it does to Oxygen in it's simple and complex forms.
    E: Mothra parts the clouds in an instant and creates a shockwave that disturbs the ocean a kilometer or more away just by showing up.
    F: Ghidorahs biology is dumping out enough power to generate hurricanes just by being alive. His canon Monarch file says it's a combo of his wings flapping and an electrical transmission of energy from his body to the atmosphere that creates a storm system. Even small hurricanes generate way more energy then a nuke during their lifetimes and he is literally powering one.
    G: The Titan's were reversing global warming and seeding life to the planet in the post credits scene of KoTM.

    Phew! Did I put anybody to sleep yet?? :P

    Its for all these reasons I believe a mid to high tier Titan is somewhere beyond Nuke level and therefore around or slightly beyond "city buster" level.
    I'll have to watch the film again to comment on some of these things.

    Outside of that, I'll just say that not all earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanos are built the same. Also, Zilla swimming fast to create a tsunami completely ignores how tsunamis are formed and what they are.

    Here are some wave details, I'm both decently proficient in ocean dynamics and a surfer with 30 years of travelling the earth looking for waves under my belt, so, while this is a summary, it's accurate enough.

    To whit: a normal wave is caused by wind blowing across the top of the water over a certain distance for a certain period of time. The longer the distance where the wind applies (called the "fetch") the better established the wave will be. In this case, the period of the wave (the time from peak to peak) will be longer. Imagine that each wave is actually a big cylinder of water circulating around a center point. The longer the period, the larger the cylinder, effectively. This is why a 2 meter swell with 14 second periods will break on shore or reef with massively more height, shape and power than a 2 meter swell with a 10 second period - there is MUCH more water moving in that cylinder. It will also break in deeper water, or be affected, for good or bad, more by deeper subsurface features (reefs, canyons, sandbars, etc.) because the cylinder is bigger - you are moving water much deeper.

    You can also create a wave by displacement, of course: boats, loch ness monsters, Godzillas, etc., create waves like this. There is a pressure wave off their leading edges, as the non-compressible liquid is pushed out of the way by the moving thing. Such waves are much much weaker and less developed then good, long fetch groundswell. Even Godzilla doesn't move water from the surface down to 300 meters, like a 4m swell with 19 second period would. Such waves move anywhere from 5kmh to 50kmh through the open ocean - longer period swells move faster, it's just physics.

    And EVERY wave hitting the shore has the effect of the water pulling back as the wave stands up to topple. Got to the beach and watch it.

    A tsunami has nothing at all to do with this method of wave construction. Tsunamis are generally caused by undersea earthquakes. What happens is that one plate moves or slips. This causes a relatively instant displacement of say a few dozen CM, over a long area, hundreds or thousands of meters. The fact that it is sooooooo fast, and that water, as a liquid, doesn't compress, means that there is a pulse of energy in the water that may only be 10cm in height, but which is moving at hundreds or thousands of meters per SECOND.

    This causes some intense and cool and totally-non-movie-like effects: in the deep ocean, a 5 meter windswell will rock an aircraft carrier, and can swamp smaller boats if storm winds are around to cause the faces to break. In the open ocean, a tsunami that would smash a coastline would be nearly totally imperceptible to a person on a boat. You MIGHT hear or feel a slight vibration as it passed.

    Basically, jumping right back in, you simply can't cause a tsunami by a creature that small (relatively) moving at the speeds that creature is shown to move at. You could cause a pretty decent bit of displacement chop. There's a reason that massive cruise ships and aircraft carriers (vessels which easily displace "one Godzilla" or so) don't cause hazardous surf conditions around the world - they don't even make waves that are noticeable on shore. That's just not how physics works.

    Now, if big G could move at hypersonic speeds or something, that's perhaps another story. But if he can do that, he should have blitzed, no?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  11. #26

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    1: I had no idea you were a surfer! My personal sport for recreation and fun is snow boarding. Totally different sort of water I ride ;P

    2: I feel like you are getting waaay to hung up on the physics of that one feat. In this thread alone you have argued that we shouldn't look at movie nukes like real ones because Hollywood is silly and movies are silly and made comments like "How dare the MCU not take Rumbles into account!" in regards to Surturs inconsistencies, buuuut for whatever reason... you have decided that we should hyper analyze tsunami physics and plausibility instead of just accepting the feat the way it was clearly intended: A show of Godzilla's sheer scale and strength put into terms we can understand and perceive in shorthand. "Dude causes tsunamis accidently" would be a fine feat in comics but you are holding it to a very different standard here for some reason.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  12. #27
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    1: I had no idea you were a surfer! My personal sport for recreation and fun is snow boarding. Totally different sort of water I ride ;P

    2: I feel like you are getting waaay to hung up on the physics of that one feat. In this thread alone you have argued that we shouldn't look at movie nukes like real ones because Hollywood is silly and movies are silly and made comments like "How dare the MCU not take Rumbles into account!" in regards to Surturs inconsistencies, buuuut for whatever reason... you have decided that we should hyper analyze tsunami physics and plausibility instead of just accepting the feat the way it was clearly intended: A show of Godzilla's sheer scale and strength put into terms we can understand and perceive in shorthand. "Dude causes tsunamis accidentqally" would be a fine feat in comics but you are holding it to a very different standard here for some reason.
    I snowboard, too - and ski - and climb!

    The point I'm trying to make here is that we are granting a ton despite the basis simply not acting like the things they are purported to be.

    In comics, we have lots and lots of feats for the things acting somewhat like what they should act like. And then we throw things out that DON'T act like them, or we asterisk the feat more or less.

    Here, there are no things that act like the things they purport to be. So granting some second or third degree related thing credit based on the interpretation of the first thing knocks the whole thing out of whack.

    Just to run the line here for you: Godzilla, if we take his "nuke" feats at face value AND choose the interpretation that some people would like to take, can literally no-sell the physical damage from a very close range nuke. Which means that pretty much any titan can CASUALLY deal shots that are WAY WAY WAY beyond nuke. But we don't see that. In fact, we see a lot of things that would seem to directly contradict that.

    Tsunamis don't come from a thing that swims and moves not all that fast, and isn't all that big. So using "he accidentally made a tsunami" as a feat means that we are allowing that his displacement feat accidentally is billions of times stronger then when he actually tries to hit something. He also has been swimming around the world for years, even makes the occasional really fast gesture, but never causes a tsunami then.

    We also have things like Mothra's webbing holding a titan to a building. And said Titan can't break free easily. Meaning that a building was somehow sufficient to resist the force of a casual city buster. It's not like these guys have so many feats that we can easily throw out one of the 4 that we don't like.

    I don't know. I'm not trying to be physics pedantic here: that's pretty ridiculous, I get that. I just can't really get behind giving the equivalence to actual reality to the highest of the high end stuff based on what some idiot humans in the movie say, when everything else about the feats and situations don't remotely behave like what that would be.

    Let's say I made a movie, and presented Acid Immune Woman in it. In my obligatory "Imma show how badass my hero/ine is" scene, I have some liquid fall on her. Someone screams "Oh noooooooooooooozzzzzz that's concentrated hydrofloric acid!" But Acid Immune Woman just stands there, hand on her hips, and smiles, saying "I got this." But... her clothes don't burn, the area she is standing in is fine, even her pet hamster Gotterdamerung is just just peachy. We'd question the feat, right? And we'd question whether other feats that are based on that feat were valid and presentable.

    That's basically it. It's just difficult to wrap my head around "Ghidorah punches thousands of times harder than a nuke" but maybe that's just me.

    It probably is. Thinking further on it, it's probably just me angry about the crappy fight scenes in the movie. I wanna see the cut that actually shows the monsters fighting and not the humans acting like bitches. I wanna see the scene where Godzilla punches Ghidorah and the shockwave knocks over skyscrapers.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

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