LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES issue #1 Preview/(spoiler) discussion

[Superlad93]

When he got aged up, they kept heroic, independent, and mature side of him. The side that makes him a good hero. But it feels like Bendis ditched the other parts him because Bendis mitook it for things that a character would only have as a child.

Your description of his other aspects is still a little vague for me, but I imagine it's pretty hard to articulate (or even fully extrapolate it from the context of him as a child) something that seems to be more of a general feeling that you got when you read the character. I get it. I was only asking just to see if it was something as easily explained and pointed to as the very clear dissonance between Bendis' writing of Damian vs how most others write him.

But, see, the point of why I brought up the idea of the context of age, people he's interacting with, and immediate situation is because all of that has been changed over, and if any truer structural critique can be leveled at Bendis' handling of Jon so far it's the lack/shortage (there's le of expressly character driven stories/issues or even moments with him in it. Structurally, it seems like it was a speed thing. The Legion book seems like where the bulk if not totality of his character work will be done by Bendis. It's where his interpersonal relationships (both platonic and (likely) romantic) as a teen will explored, and that, as we saw with just how much of 10 year old Jon is expressly defined by how he played off Damian, and will fill him out past being heroic, independent, mature, and kind as he is now. This is also the book where we're more on his Earth-3 back story, so that (thank goodness) fleshes what he was like in that context and how it translates to now. This is also the book where we seem to be getting more of what the Super Sons function like now to.

But speaking for myself, I thought the way that he was so unironically charmed (saying "that's cool" without a hint of sass or irony) by what amounts to a futuristic name tag was great, and also how he met everyone with an instant handshake and smile. Or the unguarded nature of him just admitting he was worried about how he was gonna retain all this new info (and if he'd be turned to ash in a time accident lol). There's also the charismatic smile he has on when he's saying his dad's best friend is his mom. Or even though he's freaking out pretty hard about possibly being in a bottle, he's still nice enough to say he'll be right back as he zips off. But then in totally understandable contrast, he keeps cutting everyone off mid sentence, and paying zero attention to the orientation he's supposed to go to because, like us, he's darting around and taking it all in and not really think everything through (example: the orientation would likely answer literally every question he has). I also liked how forceful he could get when he demanded they go back in time and save the planet before they calm him down a bit.

For me, so far at least, I'm getting this sense of natural charisma, earnestness, and a health bit of impulsiveness. That's what I'm personally getting so far. Personally, that doesn't really strike me how just any teen would act and react. There's a budding swagger and distinctiveness there that I hope is nurtured to grow.

Not in a way that puts him on the road to just being Clark Jr.

The old Conner vs Kon-El debate still going on today.

[HandofPrometheus]

It was an alright issue. Introductions could've been way better and the characters were meh. You can switch the dialogue with anyone and they will still sound the same. The art was nice and the colors were used good to make the designs feel unique.

Saturn Girl could literally telepathically link all the info Jon needs into his mind but whatever.

[Eto]

Great art!

[Eto]

It was an alright issue. Introductions could've been way better and the characters were meh. You can switch the dialogue with anyone and they will still sound the same.

You’ve pretty much summed up Bendis on team books. Lmao..

The art was nice and the colors were used good to make the designs feel unique.

Saturn Girl could literally telepathically link all the info Jon needs into his mind but whatever.[/QUOTE]

Lol

[Sam]

Yeah, bland vanilla team to match a bland vanilla Jon. All the dialogue was pretty much interchangeable and sounded more like Bendis than any particular character and the character moments he even tried to give Jon really made no sense in the context of the character. I mean, Jon has no reason to have any issues with bottles. He's had literally no exposure to the bottle city and he's never been trapped in one. Conner or Kara that could work with, but Jon? He's just another Superboy here. He's not Jon Kent. Freaking Bendis.

[manwhohaseverything]

Your description of his other aspects is still a little vague for me, but I imagine it's pretty hard to articulate (or even fully extrapolate it from the context of him as a child) something that seems to be more of a general feeling that you got when you read the character. I get it. I was only asking just to see if it was something as easily explained and pointed to as the very clear dissonance between Bendis' writing of Damian vs how most others write him.

But, see, the point of why I brought up the idea of the context of age, people he's interacting with, and immediate situation is because all of that has been changed over, and if any truer structural critique can be leveled at Bendis' handling of Jon so far it's the lack/shortage (there's le of expressly character driven stories/issues or even moments with him in it. Structurally, it seems like it was a speed thing. The Legion book seems like where the bulk if not totality of his character work will be done by Bendis. It's where his interpersonal relationships (both platonic and (likely) romantic) as a teen will explored, and that, as we saw with just how much of 10 year old Jon is expressly defined by how he played off Damian, and will fill him out past being heroic, independent, mature, and kind as he is now. This is also the book where we're more on his Earth-3 back story, so that (thank goodness) fleshes what he was like in that context and how it translates to now. This is also the book where we seem to be getting more of what the Super Sons function like now to.

But speaking for myself, I thought the way that he was so unironically charmed (saying "that's cool" without a hint of sass or irony) by what amounts to a futuristic name tag was great, and also how he met everyone with an instant handshake and smile. Or the unguarded nature of him just admitting he was worried about how he was gonna retain all this new info (and if he'd be turned to ash in a time accident lol). There's also the charismatic smile he has on when he's saying his dad's best friend is his mom. Or even though he's freaking out pretty hard about possibly being in a bottle, he's still nice enough to say he'll be right back as he zips off. But then in totally understandable contrast, he keeps cutting everyone off mid sentence, and paying zero attention to the orientation he's supposed to go to because, like us, he's darting around and taking it all in and not really think everything through (example: the orientation would likely answer literally every question he has). I also liked how forceful he could get when he demanded they go back in time and save the planet before they calm him down a bit.

For me, so far at least, I'm getting this sense of natural charisma, earnestness, and a health bit of impulsiveness. That's what I'm personally getting so far. Personally, that doesn't really strike me how just any teen would act and react. There's a budding swagger and distinctiveness there that I hope is nurtured to grow.

Healthy bits is ok. If jon was clark. But, he isn't. You are forgetting that jon had two roles he was also effectively modern day jimmy. He wonderous side was very much exaggerated . The kid was goofy. Everything about him was exaggerated like i said. Even taylor's grownup jon had it. He needs to either bring back stuff from previous runs. Or give him new quirks. Frankly, there is an energy that's missing.it's like this clark smiles when he saves the day jon doesn't just smile. He grins from ear to ear with eyes closed. It is goofy . It's outlandish. but very much effective .it is a clear distinction.
I know he writes spiderman. So, it shouldn't be to hard. When i think of grown up i think of essentially peter parker or wally west.not clark kent. Clark kent is secure and confident in himself. Jon ain't. He is emotive to the point of exaggeration. He should get into trouble and make faces to have fun.


As for him being defined by his relation with damian. Its true. But he had other dynamics with the titans, with his mom, his grandfather, alfred, with his friends.jon's friendship is just the more memorable one.

[Superlad93]

Everything about him was exaggerated like i said.

Because he was 10. Everything about the way a person acts is amplified when they're a child.

He needs to either bring back stuff from previous runs.

I have no issue with this. He'd just have to scale it to the appropriate context of a young man rather than a 10 year old child, so inherently it would change.

I know he writes spiderman. So, it shouldn't be to hard. When i think of grown up i think of essentially peter parker or wally west.

You mean like someone who isn't scared of breaking the tension by cracking a joke, someone doesn't always think before they leap? He's done that. I can list of insistence, but you're likely to dismiss them as I'm not clear on you're fairly vague criteria.

Jon ain't.

Wasn't. Jon wasn't always confident in himself...because he was 10, and had been a hero with powers for only about a year. It's context. There's an in story reason for why he's now more confident in himself.

[Superlad93]

I mean, Jon has no reason to have any issues with bottles. He's had literally no exposure to the bottle city and he's never been trapped in one. Conner or Kara that could work with, but Jon?

The implication very clearly being that Clark has shown him Kandor and told him about it. I mean, (I say this with respect) that's not totally unlike someone hearing from their parent about how, long ago, their people were sent to concentration camps, and ended up being killed in them. Then one day that same person finds himself in what looks a LOT like a concentration camp. Jon knows that a whole city of his people were shrunken, rendered totally helpless, and then killed under a bottle, and he just found himself in something that looks a lot like a bottle.

[manwhohaseverything]

Because he was 10. Everything about the way a person acts is amplified when they're a child.



I have no issue with this. He'd just have to scale it to the appropriate context of a young man rather than a 10 year old child, so inherently it would change.



You mean like someone who isn't scared of breaking the tension by cracking a joke, someone doesn't always think before they leap? He's done that. I can list of insistence, but you're likely to dismiss them as I'm not clear on you're fairly vague criteria.



Wasn't. Jon wasn't always confident in himself...because he was 10, and had been a hero with powers for only about a year. It's context. There's an in story reason for why he's now more confident in himself.

Why are you stuck on the age? I have seen peter parker make faces man.it's funny because the mask itself is used as an expressive tool for peter.
Not crack jokes essentially. Although he does that. But, he makes mistakes tries to sweep them under the carpet like.you know the classic oops! I effed up.

He likes his image as a sweet kid. But he is mischievous. He can do the superdickery thing. Jon would use his finger to stop damian from lifting weights. He would try to act cute so that the titans notice him. It worked starfire was allover him. Telling him how cute he is. Pulling his cheeks and hugging him.

[Superlad93]

nevermind 10ch

[Robanker]

There's a lot of promise here, so I'll give it an arc. While I dislike the idea that Earth got wrecked, I love that Jon's entire reaction is "let's comic book event this garbage and FIX IT." Will they actually be able to? I don't know. The notion that they're going to try and restore Earth's oceans with the trident (which likely isn't going to work) is cool, I actually love the idea of the overarching narrative to tie the run together being literally rebuilding Earth. That provides a really solid backbone on which to create arcs.

Sook's pencils are great as always. I know Arthur and Clark were at odds at times, but I do like the idea that Jon just assuming his dad got along with everyone because, well, he's Superman. Any arguments he would take like when Clark noted sometimes he wants to punch Bruce, but it's not often.

When Jon revealed Lois is Clark's best friend, it felt correct but I could faintly hear Superlad whisper "Jimmmyyyy!" from the world over.


It's a fine start. A lot of world building, and that's fine for a first issue or two, but by issue three I really hope this begins picking up some steam. Still, solid foundation.

[Tenzel Kim]

Wasn't. Jon wasn't always confident in himself...because he was 10, and had been a hero with powers for only about a year. It's context. There's an in story reason for why he's now more confident in himself.

Not replying to this quote in particular but all the comments about how much of what people are missing can be explained by the fact that he is no longer a kid anymore. Now, I actually agree with that to a certain extent, but that only goes to show why the aging was a bad idea in the first place. Jon as a kid was something unique in the DC Universe. Not quite Impulse goofy but still someone having fun and being a great opposite to a character like Damian in terms of personality. The two worked amazingly together and honestly Jon brought a brightness to any story he was in.

After the aging much of what made him an interesting new character in the DC Universe was removed and he became just another super character. I'm sure they could have kept some of that charm and I'm sure they will find a way to reincorporate some of what seems to have been lost in a new way, but it is just a shame that when you get a new character that actually feels unique they go and change him into something much less interesting.

Now, as for the first issue itself I have to say that I was a bit disappointed. I think they really needed to have made this a double size first issue as it never really got started.

[manwhohaseverything]

Making spiderman confident and stuff all the time would be a mistake. So, changing jon was a mistake. Plain and simple. If peter parker doesn't make mistakes and learns from them. How will people relate? Jon had relatable personality. He was like guys like dick, wally, peter. He wasn't like clark. Sure, he used Clark's troupes like glasses, superdickery, nice guy boyscout... Etc. But, jon was just using them. Unlike clark superheroics was fun time for jon with friends. It wasn't just responsibility that compelled him. It was mischief also. Clark kent isn't close to what a jon kent should be grown up. That is my opinion. Responsibility was thrust upon him like spidey and wally . He wasn't born great like clark. He had gotten his powers latter. He learned the secret of his parents. He learned to levitate for a while and was gifted the cape. He didn't always know he was son of superman. He was mentored by someone great similar to wally and dick.being goofy isn't a 10 year old thing. It's a human thing.



When i say emotive this what i mean. There was never a dull moment with jon kent. The older one is a basically a stiff farmboy stereotype.

[Sam]

The implication very clearly being that Clark has shown him Kandor and told him about it. I mean, (I say this with respect) that's not totally unlike someone hearing from their parent about how, long ago, their people were sent to concentration camps, and ended up being killed in them. Then one day that same person finds himself in what looks a LOT like a concentration camp. Jon knows that a whole city of his people were shrunken, rendered totally helpless, and then killed under a bottle, and he just found himself in something that looks a lot like a bottle.

That's a stretch. Well, it probably happened off screen is not a satisfying answer. We have to actually see these reactions a head of time for it to make sense with his character. Bendis does it because he wants to make Jon fit his vision, not because he actually understands or is building Jon's character.

Making spiderman confident and stuff all the time would be a mistake. So, changing jon was a mistake. Plain and simple. If peter parker doesn't make mistakes and learns from them. How will people relate? Jon had relatable personality. He was like guys like dick, wally, peter. He wasn't like clark. Sure, he used Clark's troupes like glasses, superdickery, nice guy boyscout... Etc. But, jon was just using them. Unlike clark superheroics was fun time for jon with friends. It wasn't just responsibility that compelled him. It was mischief also. Clark kent isn't close to what a jon kent should be grown up. That is my opinion. Responsibility was thrust upon him like spidey and wally . He wasn't born great like clark. He had gotten his powers latter. He learned the secret of his parents. He learned to levitate for a while and was gifted the cape. He didn't always know he was son of superman. He was mentored by someone great similar to wally and dick.being goofy isn't a 10 year old thing. It's a human thing.



When i say emotive this what i mean. There was never a dull moment with jon kent. The older one is a basically a stiff farmboy stereotype.

Yeah, he's basically being turned into a modern version of Pre-crisis Clark, which is really a disservice to his individual identity.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Mordru The Demon Gangster? GTFO LOL!

I decided to give this a fair shake despite my misgivings and Bendis did not disappoint. His voice and writing style just isn't made for team books. It never has been. I think a poster above pointed this out by saying the dialogue is interchangeable and repetitive. Each character has their own personality and this is conveyed by the dialogue written for them. Hard to do that successfully if everybody sounds the same.

Bendis also has an annoying habit of not being able to play in others sandboxes. He had to do a scorched earth with the Avengers in order to facilitate his run (his Avengers was never going to fail sale wise given the fact he had A listers in the cast and a murderer's row of top artists). He took over Iron-man by saying how great Tony was, did two arcs, then made Riri the focus as she is who he wanted to write and not Tony. The less said about his Moon Knight, the better.

The last thing the Legion needed was another reboot. What it needs is for someone to come in and finally build the damn house on the preexisting foundations instead of knocking it down all the time.

This isn't the world I knew, nor are these the characters I love. For those of you who do love this, I hope you have a fun ride. Sadly, this just isn't for me. So I'll be checking out.