LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES issue #1 Preview/(spoiler) discussion

[Stick Figure]

Seeing all the characters together makes all the costume redesigns work I think. Everyone looks distinct. The art is spectacular! Bendis makes the characters actually feel like young people. That’s always been something Bendis does well to me. Really a solid issue.

Best “Super” costume I’ve seen.

[Blue22]

In the spirit of fairness and my love for what Jon Kent once was, I'm gonna give this a chance. I'm... actually gonna need to give it at least three or four issues because so far I'm not liking this but (in fairness) not much has actually happened.

Trying to keep an open mind here but I'm not impressed by this first issue at all. Even the art, I feel, wasn't anything to write home about. And I gotta agree with those who've said Bendis doesn't really....get Jon. That was obvious in Superman but I was hoping it would change in Legion since he's the one in the spotlight. But alas. Looks like stock teenage personality is what we're getting.

He doesn't misunderstand Jon as insultingly bad as he does Damian. But it still make for a very uninteresting character.

[Superlad93]

Liked it a lot.

Was kind of scared that Bendis would be too slow to get to anything outside of Jon's orientation and overall first day things, and I was also a little scared of how long it would take to get to some stuff about other members. The opening scene literally address both issues on page one. The world is alive and already fully formed before we get there, and we're joining it already in progress.

I feel like Jon's voice here was maybe the most natural genuine its been since he's gotten back. And I think that's primarily do to him being the one learning here. Wasn't much of that going on from issues 7 to 15. It's a whole lot easier to get into a character's head when you're learning with them and reacting with them. I liked the subtle stuff like him being so excited that he cuts off Rokk saying hello, and he's so freaked about what happened to the Earth that he's not even hearing what people are trying to say around him. I also dug the running gag about him not going to orientation or even acknowledging that there is an orientation because he's still taking everything in. And the line about his parents was cute.

I also dug how there's a genuine sense of excitement with everyone in the Legion. They're all just as nervous as Jon, and some don't even follow protocol. This is very, very clearly year one/freshmen year for everyone (outside of maybe the OG 3 I guess). They talk over each other, their unsure sometimes, and they outright make mistakes in and out of battle. I don't need to be told they're new. It's illustrated very clearly with them as a collective.

That said, I'm really looking forward to cutting down the group size a bit and sectioning them off into subplots. Apparently that'll happen very early on. The voices do get lost in the shuffle a bit --even though it still works since it's characterization of the collective--so I'd like something more manageable to get to know some people in smaller waves.

And Ryan Sook is absolutely crushing it here. So distinctly modern and slick. I know a lot of people who are gonna vibe with this book's style and feel hard.

[Korath]

I'm really pumped for this ! I like the settings, and the characters so far. bendis is hitting the ground running, and I think it works well. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to know who the current President of the UP is however. Any idea ?

[manwhohaseverything]

I'm really pumped for this ! I like the settings, and the characters so far. bendis is hitting the ground running, and I think it works well. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to know who the current President of the UP is however. Any idea ?

Wasn't it supposed to be kara?

[Superlad93]

And I gotta agree with those who've said Bendis doesn't really....get Jon. That was obvious in Superman but I was hoping it would change in Legion since he's the one in the spotlight. But alas. Looks like stock teenage personality is what we're getting.

Can you pin-point more specifically what you mean?

I'm just having a hard understanding. I mean, unlike, say, Bendis' grasp of Damian where it's pretty clear he's not adhering to clear verbal tics and the distinctive "melody" of how he talks. I'm in agreement.

[Superlad93]

Wasn't it supposed to be kara?

No. Kara was president within the relatively near future. Like 20 or 30 years in the future of the current time.

[manwhohaseverything]

Can you pin-point more specifically what you mean?

I'm just having a hard understanding. I mean, unlike, say, Bendis' grasp of Damian where it's pretty clear he's not adhering to clear verbal tics and the distinctive "melody" of how he talks. I'm in agreement.

His writing of jon is uninspiring. Jon had an energy, quickness and personality to him you know. He was like a ball of sunshine. Very expressive. It might feel exaggerated but it was always very reflective. There wasn't much of a dull moment with jon kent. He would always be messing with something.

[Blue22]

His writing of jon is uninspiring. Jon had an energy, quickness and personality to him you know. He was like a ball of sunshine. Very expressive. It might feel exaggerated but it was always very reflective. There wasn't much of a dull moment with jon kent. He would always be messing with something.

At the expense of going on another tangent about this (that even I'm tired of lol)

You pretty much got it. It's subtle but there was always this extra bit of quirkiness, inquisitiveness, and heart that Jon had, that we him apart from your standard kid character. A lot of the traits that made him a fun child character are kinda lost when he's aged up, and not replaced with anything, making him into this "Average Joe" kind of teen character.

Like...kid Jon was still very much his father's child, but he still had that extra kick to him that helped him stand out (in addition to his age). Teen Jon...hasn't had any of that from the moment he came into the picture. There's no energy. There's no spark. He's just...young Clark. It's like...one character is French Vanilla ice cream with a bunch of toppings...and the other is just plain vanilla. Not unlikable but not comparable to what's right next to it.

[Superlad93]

At the expense of going on another tangent about this (that even I'm tired of lol)

You pretty much got it. It's subtle but there was always this extra bit of quirkiness, inquisitiveness, and heart that Jon had, that we him apart from your standard kid character. A lot of the traits that made him a fun child character are kinda lost when he's aged up, and not replaced with anything, making him into this "Average Joe" kind of teen character.

Like...kid Jon was still very much his father's child, but he still had that extra kick to him that helped him stand out (in addition to his age). Teen Jon...hasn't had any of that from the moment he came into the picture. There's no energy. There's no spark. He's just...young Clark. It's like...one character is French Vanilla ice cream with a bunch of toppings...and the other is just plain vanilla. Not unlikable but not comparable to what's right next to it.

His writing of jon is uninspiring. Jon had an energy, quickness and personality to him you know. He was like a ball of sunshine. Very expressive. It might feel exaggerated but it was always very reflective. There wasn't much of a dull moment with jon kent. He would always be messing with something.

I was expecting something more specific and pin-pointed.

I just sort of shutter when "out of character" is thrown around in a situation like this where a character is aged from 10 to 17. Because, yes, this isn't how Jon would act.....if he were 10 and with Damian (with whom he acted in a manner unlike any other relationship he had). But he's not 10 anymore, and he's meeting new people. So now a new filter for how he carries himself inherently has to change. Even the way he interacts with Damian himself is subject to change by virtue of him not being a child anymore.

Like, I wouldn't want to see any teen or adult version of Jon get into anything similar to the petty fist fights with any version of Damian like 10 year old Jon did. I wouldn't imagine he'd throw as many putdowns or "I'm super and you're not" pranks Damian's way either. That sh!t is cute when you're like 10 or something. But you just look like a dick if you're doing that at 17, you know what I mean? And, again, he's just not going to do that with other people in the first place. New dynamics with new people are being formed. The context of his age and the people he's interacting with has changed and thus how his character is expressed changes too.

And I tend to find that any form of inquisitiveness (outside Jurgens' Lois and Clark because there Jon's inquisitiveness was more of a hardwired character trait than later) was more do to the fact that he was always the new kid in the room and was happy and receptive to learning new things. That's in part why I wanted to note that this issue finally put him back in that position, and, I feel, it really got me back into his head unlike the issues of Superman before this. He's quick to movement and question things, and he's delightfully out of his depth but still geared up to go.

[Blue22]

I mean...him still doing a lot of that at would, at the very least, make him more interesting than the slice of wonder bread that he is now xD

Like...if you're gonna unnecessarily age the character up (and yes it was unnecessary. He could have been in the Legion as a kid. Or the Legion books could have been about a Jon from a time where he was older while he's still a kid back in the main time) and change him to reflect that new age, don't just take away all the quirks he had as a kid and leave him with nothing. That's not maturing him (especially for a character who was already pretty damn mature for his age) that's just making him a dull recreation of his father.

A GREAT example of an aged up character who's changed but still just as awesome as they were as a child: Franklin Richards. Or any of the original Teen Titans. Though that's mostly because we had a long time to get to know those characters and watch them grow (though Franklin's case is a little...odd). Something that we should have gotten with Jon.

[Superlad93]

don't just take away all the quirks he had as a kid and leave him with nothing.

What's the list of quirks that's not directly linked to him being a child though? I still haven't gotten a clear read on that from what're trying to argue.

What I'm getting a sense of is that the main issue (as I'm understanding it) is the fact that he's no longer a 10 year old kid, with a 10 year old kid's personality. That's sounds like a big fat "well duh", but I bring it up because I'm noticing that it extended to what some readers expected for his personality. That was a very specific flavor for the books, and replacing that for the story of a Simba-like tale of succession and coming of age is hard to swallow especially when so much was built under the context of him being 10, fairly normal in disposition (as in, his scope of reference is comparable to that of a child his age), and having powers.

[manwhohaseverything]

I was expecting something more specific and pin-pointed.

I just sort of shutter when "out of character" is thrown around in a situation like this where a character is aged from 10 to 17. Because, yes, this isn't how Jon would act.....if he were 10 and with Damian (with whom he acted in a manner unlike any other relationship he had). But he's not 10 anymore, and he's meeting new people. So now a new filter for how he carries himself inherently has to change. Even the way he interacts with Damian himself is subject to change by virtue of him not being a child anymore.

Like, I wouldn't want to see any teen or adult version of Jon get into anything similar to the petty fist fights with any version of Damian like 10 year old Jon did. I wouldn't imagine he'd throw as many putdowns or "I'm super and you're not" pranks Damian's way either. That sh!t is cute when you're like 10 or something. But you just look like a dick if you're doing that at 17, you know what I mean? And, again, he's just not going to do that with other people in the first place. New dynamics with new people are being formed. The context of his age and the people he's interacting with has changed and thus how his character is expressed changes too.

And I tend to find that any form of inquisitiveness (outside Jurgens' Lois and Clark because there Jon's inquisitiveness was more of a hardwired character trait than later) was more do to the fact that he was always the new kid in the room and was happy and receptive to learning new things. That's in part why I wanted to note that this issue finally put him back in that position, and, I feel, it really got me back into his head unlike the issues of Superman before this. He's quick to movement and question things, and he's delightfully out of his depth but still geared up to go.

He was meeting the titans or batman or everyother character he met the first time too. He is not 10 in dceased too. Jon is very expressive in that as well. He would hug people, goof of(in the start and moment with lois swearing). Tom taylor had no problem with older jon. He didn't come of bland. He basically sat beside damian when bruce died with out a word. It was subtle gesture . The character had an energy that was different from clarks.i know, i shouldn't compare writers. snyder made character do things play the gitar or play catch in the stratosphere with clark. He did it all in one page. He also did the father son superman punch.



Bendis just writes him blandly. Have him make a face or jump around or something. Jon is a dynamic character. He is like the tim drake robin in tas.One of my favourite moments with Clark in tas was with tim. Jon had the agility and energy of a robin which is missing. Also, the stubborn mischievous streak.
To quote "batman-shmatman! I got this down. Or not!"


It's not about pettiness though. Jon inherently loves to poke damian. Because it's fun and it's something they do. The standard batman/superman relation is Batman broods and clark laugh sometimes subtly pokes fun. Clark and damian are that with out the nuances. I mean it in a good way. Damian and jon bicker and bicker and bicker... Its just what they do and they have the energy to do it. Jon never backs down.he even does the superdickery thing.

[Superlad93]

New interview

https://nerdist.com/article/legion-o...ichael-bendis/

Some (likely) Jon related 5G stuff in here.

Bendis: "It was pretty exciting and the story that I’ve told in Superman is the same story I pitched to Dan Didio the first time we met each other. That Jon would become the Superboy of the Legion. He was deeply excited and had a bunch of editorial scenarios for him, which I wasn’t even aware of, which meant we got to plan this whole year. Major movies don’t get to plan a whole year around what they’re going to do and design it! We were able to do that. And it was so smart of DC to really plan and design each character and make multiple choices and think about it.”

The major "editorial scenarios for him" seems to sync with Bendis other quote from a recent interview where he says

"I got to tell you, I'm very proud; I actually first got to pitch this to [DC Comics Co-Publisher, Dan Didio] the first time we met each other just to see if we were going to do this. He was talking about something that he wanted and I mentioned, "I don't even know if the pieces line up with this, this, and this but if it's [Jon Kent] who gets to go, you still get your Superman book but you have Superboy teed up for a completely original journey as a hero that's different than his father's and then they have to deal with it as father and son too." That's unique and everyone got real excited about it."

Seems to continue to indicate that the rumors of Jon becoming Superman are likely. And it also seems to further imply that this was an idea that was being worked on before Bendis even got here.

Also “Not only do I have a timeline that is reflective of the 1000 year time gap, but I also have one that’s reflective of the timeline that Dan Didio recently shared with everyone. So, look for more of that as time goes on. In this first issue I think you get a sense of the scope of it."

I think we're going to be looking back to issue 2 of Millennium with Booster Gold's museum as one of the biggest signs of all of the coming timeline stuff.

[Blue22]

What's the list of quirks that's not directly linked to him being a child though? I still haven't gotten a clear read on that from what're trying to argue.

What I'm getting a sense of is that the main issue (as I'm understanding it) is the fact that he's no longer a 10 year old kid, with a 10 year old kid's personality. That's sounds like a big fat "well duh", but I bring it up because I'm noticing that it extended to what some readers expected for his personality. That was a very specific flavor for the books, and replacing that for the story of a Simba-like tale of succession and coming of age is hard to swallow especially when so much was built under the context of him being 10, fairly normal in disposition (as in, his scope of reference is comparable to that of a child his age), and having powers.

Except he didn't need to be a ten year old for a lot of the energy and charm to follow over. Part of why I liked Jon so much was because he wasn't the average "tagalong kid" trope. He was a kid who was a lot more intelligent, and even mature, than a lot of other characters his age, while still knowing how to be a normal kid. He knew how to be that bright, quirky, energetic, and youthful kid; while also being heroic, independent, and mature but without steering into the bratty territory that even kid characters like Damian have been in before. And he didn't start out that way. When he first came around he pretty much was that generic kid character. But, in a very short time, he grew into being more than that. Especially when Super Sons came around.

When he got aged up, they kept heroic, independent, and mature side of him. The side that makes him a good hero. But it feels like Bendis ditched the other parts him because Bendis mitook it for things that a character would only have as a child.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to Jon being in the Legion, growing up and having enough agency to function in a series by himself (If you read my post in the Super Family thread, you'd know I like the idea of his story being a coming of age one) but...not like this. Not in a way that feels like they just wanted to skip seven years of growth just to rush to him being damn near an adult. Not in a way that confuses the things that made him fun and unique for things that can only be present in a character when they're a child. Not in a way that puts him on the road to just being Clark Jr.