View Poll Results: Burn the witch?

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  • She must face her crimes.

    45 60.00%
  • I forgive her for her mass genocide.

    30 40.00%
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Thats way too much of a risk and I dont see how Xavier could have forseen it. Roughly 200 mutants left and many of whom were being killed off nearly had mutantkind extinct. It makes more sense that M-Day was an unexpected wrench thrown at his plans, not something he helped orchestrate or blindly stood by and let happen
    Comic books are always just one pre-cog or time-traveler away from knowing how things will play out.

    Look at Cable and his "the Phoenix will save everyone" in X-Sanction!

  2. #77
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    LOL, I missed all the hate-Wanda stuff in the last few years. One "pretender" line and Hickman revives it all again.

    But as to the question, sure, why not? It's better than her not being used at all, which is what's happening now and what happened for so many years after "House of M."

    Of course if Hickman were writing it, he'd probably mistakenly think that House of M was in character, rather than examining the really interesting things about the Avengers and mutants: Wanda and Pietro were open, public mutants when the X-Men all had secret identities; her house was burned down in the anti-mutant hate spree of the '80s, and in general, the X-Men have led privileged and pampered lives compared to people like Wanda who actually had the guts to fight for mutant representation in the wider world. (Remember when the Sentinels needed to kidnap a female mutant and they told Wanda they chose her because, as an Avenger, she was easier to find than Jean Grey?)

    Now, obviously, nothing Wanda ever said or did before House of M implied that she was a self-hating mutant, so it's obvious she was being mind-controlled when she said "No more mutants" and the only reason the X-Men can't accept that is that they are bigoted against non-X-mutants.

    The explanation that Doom did it makes more sense than the idea that Wanda could have done it, but as pointed out, it still doesn't make much sense and Doom was probably lying because he (mistakenly) thought she did it. So a good story would reveal who really was responsible for the Decimation and examine the different ways in which someone can fight for mutant rights, whether on a public-facing team like Wanda, or in masks like the early X-Men.

    But Hickman, as I said, would probably not get that; as his Avengers run shows, he has no interest in the classic Avengers characters, so he might actually believe that "No more mutants" was something Wanda did (whereas he would know that killing Xavier, say, would never be something Scott would do in-character). Still, I'd be fine at this point with such a story because the undeserved hate heaped on Wanda would simply reinforce why her fans like her so much; she's easy to misunderstand, and that makes her fans feel like they "get" her in a way that many comics readers don't.

    Also Wiccan and Speed have never been officially classified as mutants. Tom Brevoort has repeatedly said they're not officially mutants, probably because he wants his office to have dibs on them much like he has dibs on Wanda and Pietro (even when no one is using them, like now).

  3. #78
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Children's Crusade settled this I thought.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Children's Crusade settled this I thought.
    Apparently that was your first mistake.

    (all in jest, btw)

  5. #80
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    PIETRO: "M-Day? I've never heard of her."
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin Richards
    Fragile creatures, we are taught to fear the Reaper!
    Ever running, we are dead before we meet Her!
    Quote Originally Posted by Valeria Richards
    Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper!
    Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Children's Crusade settled this I thought.
    It probably would have on its own (despite the absurdity of Doom claiming credit for M-Day) if Wanda hadn't gone into the Uncanny Avengers ongoing, which appeared to try to get sales largely on the basis of trolling X-Men fans as much as possible. Which is why the first issue had Wanda - one page, mind you, after she was weeping at Xavier's grave and full of remorse for what she helped set in motion - tell Rogue that the X-Men suck and don't understand Xavier's dream and why was it so important to have more mutants born anyway?

    The fact that the comic was trying to set up a literally murderous hate between Wanda and the only mutant who was actually nice to her in Children's Crusade (where Rogue told her that Scott and the others would all come around and forgive her) was just icing on the cake.

    I don't blame people for feeling mad at the characters like Wanda and Havok who were being used to troll them, I blame the Avengers office for using her to troll X-fans instead of trying to re-integrate her onto the Avengers after she hadn't been in any comics at all for so many years.

  7. #82
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    They have no jurisdiction over her.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    They have no jurisdiction over her.
    Does anyone really think the Avengers wouldn't give her up to the X-Men in a heartbeat? We're talking about the same "friends" who let Magneto take her away after her breakdown and then, when that blew up in their face, acted like she was a monster best forgotten. (My favorite part of Children's Crusade is that when Billy hears about M-Day, his first instinct, as it would be about any hero in this universe, is to assume that she must have been mind-controlled - and all the other Avengers are like, no, we were there, she's evil.) And let's not forget that they haven't even thought to invite her back on the team. They'd send her to Krakoa instantly and she'd be lucky if anyone besides Billy and Pietro showed up as a character witness.

    More seriously, if there was a story like this, they'd probably handle it the way Children's Crusade handled it when Scott (inexplicably) demands Wanda come with him instead of trying to re-power the mutants. She'd say, no, I'm going with them, don't fight over me, and the trial would take place.

  9. #84
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    We dlreally don't need a "no more krakoa" moment
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    ...so are you saying that Wanda is homo novissima then? Get her Moira X!
    If this is the case, throw her into the sun.

  11. #86
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    Also, I've always thought that if the Avengers office had given up its hold on Wanda and allowed the X-Men to do a "trial of Wanda Maximoff" story back when HoM was still a fresh wound, the character would be a lot better off today. The X-books have never treated Wanda particularly unsympathetically when she actually appears in them (even Bendis portrayed her quite sympathetically when the Uncanny Avengers team showed up in "All-New X-Men"). But instead she wasn't in comics at all and the X-books were mandated to show as much horror resulting from the Decimation as possible, so there literally were no comics where she was portrayed as her usual heroic self except in a few of the flashback comics Jeff Parker wrote like "X-Men First Class" and "Mystic Arcana."

    No matter how bad the comics are treating a favorite character there's just nothing worse than not being used at all. Even becoming a villain is better.

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Also, I've always thought that if the Avengers office had given up its hold on Wanda and allowed the X-Men to do a "trial of Wanda Maximoff" story back when HoM was still a fresh wound, the character would be a lot better off today. The X-books have never treated Wanda particularly unsympathetically when she actually appears in them (even Bendis portrayed her quite sympathetically when the Uncanny Avengers team showed up in "All-New X-Men"). But instead she wasn't in comics at all and the X-books were mandated to show as much horror resulting from the Decimation as possible, so there literally were no comics where she was portrayed as her usual heroic self except in a few of the flashback comics Jeff Parker wrote like "X-Men First Class" and "Mystic Arcana."

    No matter how bad the comics are treating a favorite character there's just nothing worse than not being used at all. Even becoming a villain is better.
    IA. It was a disservice to the character and X-Fans to provide no resolution to this for years and when they did, it felt very unsatisfactory

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Does anyone really think the Avengers wouldn't give her up to the X-Men in a heartbeat?
    Because they wouldn't, since thankfully most of the time they're not written like they're characters in an X-Men revenge fic.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    Because they wouldn't, since thankfully most of the time they're not written like they're characters in an X-Men revenge fic.
    As the symbol of the destruction of the Old School Avengers and the dawn of incessant internecine events and constant feuding with the other franchises, I say chuck her and Pietro to the X-Men, but dibs on Billy and Tommy.

    There’s plenty of good hills for the non-X/non-Spider characters to die on now that the X-Books and Marvel are reconciled, Wanda should never be one of them

  15. #90
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Wanda already has empathy. When she did what she did, she was in the middle of a psychotic break and has since gotten better. There's nothing Jean can do for her now
    Where was her empathy in Uncanny Avengers? Her primary concern in that was making sure everyone knew she was the real victim and her secondary concern was getting rofessional creep Wonder Man's D.

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