Superman vs Supreme

[The Dog]

Doesn't PC Superman basically have the power of "I can do anything if I put 'Super' in front of it" as well as getting whatever superpower needed for the story?

[big_adventure]

Alright, I'll ask: then what exactly is Pre-COIE Earth-1 Superman's top speed?

To try to quantify it a bit, based on board standards...

We generally consider PC Supes to be blitz-level fast on Post Crisis Wally West. And, as you've been here for a while, you know just how damn fast that is.

Pre-Crisis DC stuff was incredibly silly.

[big_adventure]

Doesn't PC Superman basically have the power of "I can do anything if I put 'Super' in front of it" as well as getting whatever superpower needed for the story?

Be careful, or you'll find yourself married to a gorilla.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

To try to quantify it a bit, based on board standards...

We generally consider PC Supes to be blitz-level fast on Post Crisis Wally West. And, as you've been here for a while, you know just how damn fast that is.

Pre-Crisis DC stuff was incredibly silly.

Yeah. Why though?
Apparently the flying past the bonds of infinity ro wtv require a specific build-up. That also sounds like travel speed anyway.

That flying to another planet to observe events in the past. Um.. travel speed to get to the planet, I'd think. Any time frame given on gathering those resources to huid the telescope?

[The Arbiter]

Yeah. Why though?
Apparently the flying past the bonds of infinity ro wtv require a specific build-up. That also sounds like travel speed anyway.

That flying to another planet to observe events in the past. Um.. travel speed to get to the planet, I'd think. Any time frame given on gathering those resources to huid the telescope?

Whole thing happened in the space of a single evening. Like he arrived back on Earth the same day he left and the sun hadn't started to get dark or anything.

[Nik Hasta]

There was also the Metallo heart surgery feat. I think I have the rough beats of it:

- Metallo shoots laser at Superman that will make their hearts switch places, thus killing man and infecting him with Green K.
- While the beam is in flight, Superman flies from the US to the North pole.
- He enters the city of Kandor and finds someone who had just died in a car crash.
- Superman removes the heart and places it in lead box.
- Superman exits Kandor, flies back from the North pole to the US and takes up his original position. At some point along the route, he picks up some green paint.
- Beam hits the box, switching the Green K heart and the Kandorian heart. Supes hides box and paints self green.
- Metallo notices nothing and thinks he's dead.

Now that's not quite speedgod Wally levels but it is very quick, multiple trips between countries, basic heart surgery, stopping to get green paint on the time it takes a beam to go like two metres or something.

That's pretty massively FTL.

[Nik Hasta]

Also, I'd disagree strongly on PC Superman being faster than Wally at his peak. Wally even had a story where he was so fast he was invisible to the explicitly Pre Crisis Justice League including Superman.

[Pendaran]

Also, I'd disagree strongly on PC Superman being faster than Wally at his peak. Wally even had a story where he was so fast he was invisible to the explicitly Pre Crisis Justice League including Superman.

Yyyeaah, but that was the story where he was also effing up the Anti Monitor. Sooo.. grain of salt, there.

[Nik Hasta]

Yyyeaah, but that was the story where he was also effing up the Anti Monitor. Sooo.. grain of salt, there.

Grain of salt granted.

To take a more solid example, barring unquantifiable stuff like the bonds of infinity feat I talked about earlier, I can't think of a PC Superman that is equal to the Flash versus the Turtle bombs plot or Flash in JLE being on two teams in two fights on different continents at the same time and seeing himself through a portal.

Speed god Wally is mad ridiculous is more my point.

[Pendaran]

Grain of salt granted.

To take a more solid example, barring unquantifiable stuff like the bonds of infinity feat I talked about earlier, I can't think of a PC Superman that is equal to the Flash versus the Turtle bombs plot or Flash in JLE being on two teams in two fights on different continents at the same time and seeing himself through a portal.

Speed god Wally is mad ridiculous is more my point.

He is, buuut.. to elaborate on a performance noted here for PC Supes and to add one of my own, from a previous thread noodling these things:

Superman superspeed building an interstellar telescope (dude is pretty clearly implied as having left the solar system) from straight up nothing but raw building materials, that he first has to harvest, down to creating the glass for its lenses, such that it will let him film the images on the light waves of an already extinguished oil fire is pretty good for being beyond him. Said telescope being advanced enough to pick up, in detail no less, images on/as light waves.

Beyond that...

Okay.. I'm trying to figure out how to give scans for this one that explain wtf is going on, but also don't break scan limits..

So, World's Finest Comics 198. A huge group of robots called the Anachronids enter mainline reality, zipping around at crazy ftl and as a result causing various time breaches for there being so many of them doing so at once. The Guardians of Oa proclaim that the only way to fix this is for Superman and the Flash to run a counter clockwise path around the very edges (the perimeter, as noted in comic, as far as the add on here of it not being like they could just fly right through) of the milky way and Andromeda galaxies to retrace the steps of the robots but in the opposite direction in a sort of weird gigantic circle to undo this stuff (... it's the Silver Age, just roll with it). They give Flash a thing that will let him have a runway to run on while doing this.

So the Flash and Superman have a race to run around the outer edge of two galaxies, while doing this, they straight up head off several groups of the robots, and physically catch some of them, having fights with them while the robots are fighting and moving so fast they just look like these blurs mostly. You might say "well, that doesn't mean they were fighting at the speeds they were flying!" except that the comic makes an explicit point of that if the robots ever slow down to less than crazy ftl, they disintegrate. They specifically can't operate below ftl.

It's a bemusingly wacky showing for everyone involved and also so silver age nonsense that honestly I'm not sure any 3 scans from it would make sense ;p

World's Finest Comics 198, you can check it out for yourself.

I suppose the argument could be made that Flash and Supes haven't done multi galaxy traversing by the time they start getting into the first bout of robot fights? Here is the thing. The robots already have, that's why the two have to fly/run in this weird opposite path across the edge two galaxies to sort of reverse retrace their steps. That's how fast this whole thing is going at. They nevertheless get into explicit superspeed fights with the robots just fine.

[Nik Hasta]

Gotta love the Silver Age. XD Only thing that matches that would be Wally racing instantaneous teleportation across the galaxy and he was amped for that.

Or maybe the whole outrunning the Zeta Beams thing which was... I recall last time it came up it was pretty ridiculous.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Also, I'd disagree strongly on PC Superman being faster than Wally at his peak. Wally even had a story where he was so fast he was invisible to the explicitly Pre Crisis Justice League including Superman.

That's the story that got me reading Flash comics from the beginning. It was so ridiculous I had to know the story behind it.

Was that Metallo laser an actual laser? If yes, it's pretty insane.

[Cronus]

He is, buuut.. to elaborate on a performance noted here for PC Supes and to add one of my own, from a previous thread noodling these things:

Superman superspeed building an interstellar telescope (dude is pretty clearly implied as having left the solar system) from straight up nothing but raw building materials, that he first has to harvest, down to creating the glass for its lenses, such that it will let him film the images on the light waves of an already extinguished oil fire is pretty good for being beyond him. Said telescope being advanced enough to pick up, in detail no less, images on/as light waves.

Beyond that...

Okay.. I'm trying to figure out how to give scans for this one that explain wtf is going on, but also don't break scan limits..

So, World's Finest Comics 198. A huge group of robots called the Anachronids enter mainline reality, zipping around at crazy ftl and as a result causing various time breaches for there being so many of them doing so at once. The Guardians of Oa proclaim that the only way to fix this is for Superman and the Flash to run a counter clockwise path around the very edges (the perimeter, as noted in comic, as far as the add on here of it not being like they could just fly right through) of the milky way and Andromeda galaxies to retrace the steps of the robots but in the opposite direction in a sort of weird gigantic circle to undo this stuff (... it's the Silver Age, just roll with it). They give Flash a thing that will let him have a runway to run on while doing this.

So the Flash and Superman have a race to run around the outer edge of two galaxies, while doing this, they straight up head off several groups of the robots, and physically catch some of them, having fights with them while the robots are fighting and moving so fast they just look like these blurs mostly. You might say "well, that doesn't mean they were fighting at the speeds they were flying!" except that the comic makes an explicit point of that if the robots ever slow down to less than crazy ftl, they disintegrate. They specifically can't operate below ftl.

It's a bemusingly wacky showing for everyone involved and also so silver age nonsense that honestly I'm not sure any 3 scans from it would make sense ;p

World's Finest Comics 198, you can check it out for yourself.

I suppose the argument could be made that Flash and Supes haven't done multi galaxy traversing by the time they start getting into the first bout of robot fights? Here is the thing. The robots already have, that's why the two have to fly/run in this weird opposite path across the edge two galaxies to sort of reverse retrace their steps. That's how fast this whole thing is going at. They nevertheless get into explicit superspeed fights with the robots just fine.

It's a fun book. I love the old pre crisis Clark vs Barry races.