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  1. #91
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It's not even just the fans of the more classic characters. There are four other generations of characters, many of whom are being neglected by management, who may now have to make room for a fifth nobody was asking for. It's excess. We already have fandom divisions between the various characters that already exist and not enough publishing material to put them in.
    You would have thought by now DC would have realized that creating new generations would only create more problems, since Clark and Bruce are never going to reach middle age and another reboot(s) will push their ages back yet again.
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  2. #92
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    You would have thought by now DC would have realized that creating new generations would only create more problems, since Clark and Bruce are never going to reach middle age and another reboot(s) will push their ages back yet again.
    Well this is the same crew that says Dick Grayson makes Bruce too old while at the same time keeping Tim's generation in continuity and then giving him a 13 year old son on top of that, so clearly they are operating on a different wavelength than the rest of us.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Lol nobody was asking for Jon Kent to be aged up and replace his father. Even most Jon Kent fans are not happy with Bendis now.

    Fans have been clamoring for the return of the likes of Wally West and Cassandra Cain, and more attention paid to the likes of John Stewart, and to cure Dick Grayson of the Ric Grayson BS. There isn't any indication that this will benefit any of them or other characters in similar situations.

    Spoken exactly how I referred. There's plenty of people interested in Jon Kent being aged up and replacing his father. You just refuse to accept those people interested in it because they contradict with classic fan mentality. This goes exactly back to my original statement.

    it's just that threads like this and rebirth leans towards the classic fan viewpoint who often believe their viewpoint is universal, even when tons of evidence clearly points otherwise.
    With that said, almost everything that's been discussed about regarding 5g has been rumors or in the brainstorming stages. So to automatically assume 5g will not benefit any of the characters listed when there's very little concrete information about 5g makes no sense. For example, people keep harping about Jon Kent. But reports also indicate that Val Zod was supposed to make a major return in 2020, which is the same time 5g is supposed to be debut. This likely means that Jon Kent will be sharing the mantle once 5g goes.
    This is due to the combination of bendis stated he had plans for val zod and dan didio during san diego comic con stated val zod would be coming in a big way in 2020.

    So ultimately, no one really knows what's truly going to happen with 5g. Just rumors.

  4. #94
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Spoken exactly how I referred. There's plenty of people interested in Jon Kent being aged up and replacing his father. You just refuse to accept those people interested in it because they contradict with classic fan mentality. This goes exactly back to my original statement.
    Plenty of people? I doubt 10% of the readership would be okay with Jon replacing Clark (and I'm being generous with that percentage). In other mediums, it would be about zero, which is why it will never happen. But if you have any evidence to back up your viewpoint, I would love to hear it.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Plenty of people? I doubt 10% of the readership would be okay with Jon replacing Clark (and I'm being generous with that percentage). In other mediums, it would be about zero, which is why it will never happen. But if you have any evidence to back up your viewpoint, I would love to hear it.

    Seeing as there have been people in the 5g threads, and in the superman forums who clearly expressed interested in the concepts of 5g, the evidence is already there. Though if you were fully interest, you only need to go to a website that doesn't primarily cater to the classic readership audience like The Mary Sue to see further proof. So unless you have proof of individuals who are interested in 5g are also somehow saying they aren't interested in Jon replacing Clark, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

    In other mediums, they don't have much progress to begin with, hence the entire point of bringing 5g so that they could allow these stories to unfold in other mediums. As mentioned in the previous thread, 5g is DC's ANAD, and IMO is largely being used to allow these stories to be unfolded in different mediums.

    Using my previous example of Val Zod, Michael B Jordan was being considered to be the next Superman, and his pitch was either to use Calvin Ellis or Val Zod. That would mean in the main stream medium, if Michael B Jordan is selected (which I think he eventually will as his popularity continues to rise and DC uses his coattails to bring excitement back to Superman.) That would cause Val Zod or Calvin Ellis to replace Clark. Yet both characters have very few storylines from the comics that could be used for interpretation. So unless they wrote content from scratch, there isn't much room to play with.

    So ultimately, 5g is there to allow stories so that Val Zod or Jon COULD replace Clark in different mediums.

  6. #96
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Spoken exactly how I referred. There's plenty of people interested in Jon Kent being aged up and replacing his father. You just refuse to accept those people interested in it because they contradict with classic fan mentality. This goes exactly back to my original statement..
    Where is the evidence to back this up? At least on here, it seems like a lot of Jon Kent fans (so NOT just those with a classic mentality) aren't loving what Bendis did with him. And that's just the Jon fans, before we add in the Clark fans.

    How is sharing the mantle between two characters (before we even get into the real one) good for the brand when it dilutes it? What is good about adding Luke Fox as Batman when we've already had 2-3 replacement Batman stories in recent runs? And the initiative in Marvel wasn't permanent, was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Using my previous example of Val Zod, Michael B Jordan was being considered to be the next Superman, and his pitch was either to use Calvin Ellis or Val Zod. That would mean in the main stream medium, if Michael B Jordan is selected (which I think he eventually will as his popularity continues to rise and DC uses his coattails to bring excitement back to Superman.) That would cause Val Zod or Calvin Ellis to replace Clark. Yet both characters have very few storylines from the comics that could be used for interpretation. So unless they wrote content from scratch, there isn't much room to play with.
    And yet now there are rumors of David Corenswet being the new Clark. Where does that enter into things? Clark may not be replaced, we may have gotten a Multiverse team up with Calvin Ellis.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 12-05-2019 at 01:45 PM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    And yet now there are rumors of David Corenswet being the new Clark.
    Good Grief. First Ezra Miller as Flash, then Robert Pattinson as Batman, and now this. If they're just going to pull random actors off the street to play superheroes, why not cast Johnny Galecki as Green Lantern!!!

  8. #98
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Good Grief. First Ezra Miller as Flash, then Robert Pattinson as Batman, and now this. If they're just going to pull random actors off the street to play superheroes, why not cast Johnny Galecki as Green Lantern!!!
    I think he looks the part at least *shrug*. I'm frankly just happy we're getting any rumors and action.

    Pattinson will be fine. Anyone who doubts him should see the Lighthouse. He was fucking awesome in that.

    And somewhat related, at least from a statement by Michael B. Jordan in the Superman forum, it looked like he was always approached to play Clark. He himself suggested Calvin Ellis instead to avoid some of the scrutiny. I don't know if Ellis was ever considered by WB.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Where is the evidence to back this up? At least on here, it seems like a lot of Jon Kent fans (so NOT just those with a classic mentality) aren't loving what Bendis did with him. And that's just the Jon fans, before we add in the Clark fans.

    I've already discussed this with Detective.

    Seeing as there have been people in the 5g threads, and in the superman forums who clearly expressed interested in the concepts of 5g, the evidence is already there. Though if you were fully interest, you only need to go to a website that doesn't primarily cater to the classic readership audience like The Mary Sue to see further proof. So unless you have proof of individuals who are interested in 5g are also somehow saying they aren't interested in Jon replacing Clark, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
    Plus just because they are a fan of Jon Kent doesn't mean they aren't a classic fan, as Jon Kent doesn't impede with what Superman can do. Just like there is plenty of classic fans who enjoy Damien. Damien is robin, and therefore adds to the dynamic of batman no different than Dick or Jason before. But now that Jon is taking over Clark's role, that's where the issue lies, because now the primary mantle holder isn't Clark Kent, it's Jon Kent.

    How is sharing the mantle between two characters (before we even get into the real one) good for the brand when it dilutes it? What is good about adding Luke Fox as Batman when we've already had 2-3 replacement Batman stories in recent runs? And the initiative in Marvel wasn't permanent, was it?
    You mean besides the fact that adding Luke into the most popular mantle in DC comics brings a POC into the spotlight of the DC?
    I can list plenty of reasons why ANAD and possibly 5g are fantastic methods, but we won't see eye to eye because our difference of perspective. You seeing sharing the mantle as diluting it, which is often a classic fan viewpoint. I seeing sharing the mantle as improving the brand and making it more encompassing, such as Miles Morales. In regards to Marvel's Initiative, some of the characters were permanent. Ms.Marvel Nova, and Spider Man to name a couple, while others either had a different mantle to begin with like Ironheart, or transitioned from the mantle into their own characters like Valkyrie and Brawn.

    Ultimately, I'm 95% sure very few if any is expecting all of the changes to stick. The majority of characters presented will be given their chance to shine for 2-5 years, and then transition into their own mantle as the classic characters return.

    So really, it just depends upon where your perspective lies. Classic Fans won't enjoy it, though they'd enjoy an original satellite version of JLA. While those who focus on diversity or new readers are excited for what 5g would bring, but would mostly hate a original satellite version of JLA. Which points to the division in fandom that clearly already exist, it's just currently ignored because classic fans have largely been the primary group catered to and thus get to ignore the complaints and issues of those who look for diversity or new readers.
    Last edited by leo619; 12-05-2019 at 03:25 PM.

  10. #100
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Nobody ever wants to see their favorite replaced...
    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Plus just because they are a fan of Jon Kent doesn't mean they aren't a classic fan, as Jon Kent doesn't impede with what Superman can do. Just like there is plenty of classic fans who enjoy Damien. Damien is robin, and therefore adds to the dynamic of batman no different than Dick or Jason before. But now that Jon is taking over Clark's role, that's where the issue lies, because now the primary mantle holder isn't Clark Kent, it's Jon Kent..
    Well, conceptually of course Jon Kent shouldn't impede what Superman would do. That would've been a prime way of making fans dislike him.

    Damian is as far from a "classic" character as I can think of. At least in the sense you generally seem to prefer.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Nobody ever wants to see their favorite replaced...
    Oh no doubt, but the dispute was never about if classic fans had a right to be upset about the upcoming 5g. It was about clarifying that there are already divisions within the comic book demographic, which this thread clearly indicate, and that these divisions and disputes are often ignored when the subject cater towards the classic fan demographic, such as the constant attempts of trying to apply a classic fan mentality as the universal opinion.

    Well, conceptually of course Jon Kent shouldn't impede what Superman would do. That would've been a prime way of making fans dislike him.

    Damian is as far from a "classic" character as I can think of. At least in the sense you generally seem to prefer.
    Wait what? I never said Damian or Jon was a classic character. I stated that classic fans can and often do enjoy them, partially because they do not impede on Clark and Bruce being Batman and Superman.

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Wait what? I never said Damian or Jon was a classic character. I stated that classic fans can and often do enjoy them, partially because they do not impede on Clark and Bruce being Batman and Superman.
    Damian has disrupted Tim Drake more than anyone else, though. Its not just how they impact Bruce and Clark. To a lesser extent, Jon disrupted Kon. There have also been fans of Chris Kent who would have preferred he got attention instead of Jon being invented.

    Does any of this conform to a classic fan mentality?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Good Grief. First Ezra Miller as Flash, then Robert Pattinson as Batman, and now this. If they're just going to pull random actors off the street to play superheroes, why not cast Johnny Galecki as Green Lantern!!!
    The first Superman film actor was a "random actor off the street".

  14. #104
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    So rather it goes to 5g to support the individuals looking for diverse rendition of characters versus Rebirth attempts of reaching out to classic readers, there's going to be issues. One side will get what they want, while the other will complain on the internet. The only difference is that new readers/readers who's looking for diverse representation doesn't pretend the other side is nonexistent.
    Great. So now I'm pushed to pretend these comics are non existent. Smh.

    To everyone else.

    Y'know. I actually WANT some diversity, but every initiative where the plan is "Oooh I know!" instead of using EXISTING characters from all walks of life get this "WE'LL CHANGE THE ALREADY POPULAR CHARACTERS TO BE THAT REPRESENTATION!"
    I hope dies. Its lazy, and especially the way DC works.... only weakens the fanbase

    Spit on that idea, and death to that idea.

    There are so many better options.


    The first Superman film actor was a "random actor off the street".
    Hahaha, now THATS a goddamn lie. Christopher Reeve graduated from Julliard, Played on Broadway in the 70s when that MEANT something more being a youtube start does today, and allegedly had some
    mad love thing going on with Hepburn. iirc he had a couple movies before superman as well.... He really wasn't a random. Lets be fully honest and informed about this stuff.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 12-06-2019 at 08:07 AM.
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  15. #105
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    He was also Benny on LOVE OF LIFE (that might not mean anything to you, but it meant everything to my mother, bless her soul).
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