How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Electricmastro]

That was a great one. While Jameson has historically been especially distrustful, if not flat-out hateful and slanderous, of Spider-Man and suspicious of (costumed) superhumans as a whole, he's at least principled enough not to get in bed with those who would trample on the civil and human rights of other people for the sake of an agenda.

Yeah, and now that I think about it more, J. Jonah Jameson's discriminatory attitude towards superpowered masked heroes (which is mainly Spider-Man, I know, but still extends towards the X-Men) has probably been more varied, consistently, and engagingly handled (complex even) in the writing than just about every other Earth-616 human that has discriminated towards heroes like the X-Men. And I'm not talking the obvious villains that are the leaders/masterminds behind conspiracies/organizations seeking to campaign against, enslave, or destroy mutants either, which felt tiresome to me after how often the way it was done after awhile. It's that characterizations like with Jameson's feel more refreshing, and perhaps even insightful, in getting to know how a person like him thinks, even when he's flat out wrong, but can help add more layers of worldbuilding which I think helps make the world of Marvel all the more interesting to explore and deserving of going back to. I've come to understand that Jameson is fearful, perhaps even too quick to be hateful, towards heroes like the X-Men, like he was talking about, but not on an inhuman level. He may get too arrogant and judgmental, but still has good intentions buried somewhere within him at the end of the day and desires for responsibility and humanity, which perhaps goes back to the solidarity you were talking about (X-Factor #217, 2011):

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah, and now that I think about it more, J. Jonah Jameson's discriminatory attitude towards superpowered masked heroes (which is mainly Spider-Man, I know, but still extends towards the X-Men) has probably been more varied, consistently, and engagingly handled (complex even) in the writing than just about every other Earth-616 human that has discriminated towards heroes like the X-Men. And I'm not talking the obvious villains that are the leaders/masterminds behind conspiracies/organizations seeking to campaign against, enslave, or destroy mutants either, which felt tiresome to me after how often the way it was done after awhile. It's that characterizations like with Jameson's feel more refreshing, and perhaps even insightful, in getting to know how a person like him thinks, even when he's flat out wrong, but can help add more layers of worldbuilding which I think helps make the world of Marvel all the more interesting to explore and deserving of going back to. I've come to understand that Jameson is fearful, perhaps even too quick to be hateful, towards heroes like the X-Men, like he was talking about, but not on an inhuman level. He may get too arrogant and judgmental, but still has good intentions buried somewhere within him at the end of the day and desires for responsibility and humanity, which perhaps goes back to the solidarity you were talking about (X-Factor #217, 2011):

I think the only one he actually hated was Spider-Man, even if he did project a lot of what he hated about Spider-Man onto other costumed superheroes, and while he might not be keen on just anyone putting on a costume and taking the law into their own hands because they've got superpowers, he's not exactly going to stand with people who are just plain bigots and who ironically (or hypocritically) hold themselves every bit as unaccountable for the harm they do and cause as they claim mutants are.

[Electricmastro]

I think the only one he actually hated was Spider-Man, even if he did project a lot of what he hated about Spider-Man onto other costumed superheroes, and while he might not be keen on just anyone putting on a costume and taking the law into their own hands because they've got superpowers, he's not exactly going to stand with people who are just plain bigots and who ironically (or hypocritically) hold themselves every bit as unaccountable for the harm they do and cause as they claim mutants are.

Him being fine with with others being afraid of the X-Men (and suggesting people should be afraid of them) probably speaks for itself as being telling, but yeah, if he's going to be hateful towards superheroes, whether it's Spider-Man, the X-Men, or anyone else, he at the very least expresses it in a way that doesn't have complete disregard for accountability, humanity, responsibility, and safety.

His hatred and attitude in general may roar like a fire, but at least he knows well enough how to cook with it in a way that doesn't burn people, at least the ones he deems to be innocent anyway, and isn't afraid to fully accept the responsibility in confronting his mistakes when he recognizes that he hurt someone he shouldn't have either.

[Electricmastro]

It is literally what Magneto wants to do, so its possible.

In thinking about it again, while I'm not saying Magneto started the fire of prejudice towards mutants (again, Otto Binder's article and other related literature may serve as unofficial explanations), that being said, there's surely a solid argument to be made in regards to him adding fuel to the fire of prejudice towards mutants, despite his best intentions. It's a responsibility he seemed to even admit to at court in X-Men #200 (1985), and very much suggests the idea that if he can take responsibility for the consequences of his actions, then everyone else should be able to as well.

[tuck frump]

Jameson as an enbodiement of the fair bigot myth never worked and was insulting. Off with his head.

[Londo Bellian]

You want everybody outside of mutantkind to die, you bloody-minded genocidal 4LW. Punyemas, every other post o'yers is dripping with murder.

[Agent Z]

Jameson as an enbodiement of the fair bigot myth never worked and was insulting. Off with his head.

He's not a bigot in any sense of the word. He's an ******* but bigotry is not one of his many flaws.

[Zelena]

He's not a bigot in any sense of the word. He's an ******* but bigotry is not one of his many flaws.

I see him more like a "reactionary" man: in his lifetime, super-heroes have appeared, his world has changed, he wouldn't want any of that, wanted his world the way it was before.
It's a general position, he is able to be fair when confronted with individual situations. He holds an historical grudge against Spiderman, though.

[BroHomo]

He's not a bigot in any sense of the word. He's an ******* but bigotry is not one of his many flaws.

Well Stan Lee says...

[Electricmastro]

He's not a bigot in any sense of the word. He's an ******* but bigotry is not one of his many flaws.

From what I understand, the word bigot means:

“a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.”

At any rate, if Jameson can, perhaps objectively, be classified as a bigot, like how BroHomo and Stan Lee were getting at, because of disagreeing with how Spider-Man operates, then that’s what he is for his opinion then. At the same time though, what I think sets him apart from the bigots behind Operation: Zero Tolerance, anti-mutant campaigns, or any leader of an organization that seeks to destroy mutants, is that Jameson, as crazy as he may get, isn’t crazy enough to trade away his humanity just to get Spider-Man, the X-Men, or any other masked heroes he perceives to be vigilantes off the streets.

He seems to be consistently be written as someone who hates Spider-Man, not for what he is or what he may associate with his personal background, but more so out of his opinionated point of view that, ironically, Spider-Man isn’t being responsible enough by being a masked vigilante operating outside of the law, and that Jameson holds him to an especially high standard too. Despite that though, he consistently holds his valued standard of accountability, humanity, and responsibility towards himself and to the public at large.

[PeterParked]

13%.

10char.

[djoki96]

From what I understand, the word bigot means:

“a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.”

At any rate, if Jameson can, perhaps objectively, be classified as a bigot, like how BroHomo and Stan Lee were getting at, because of disagreeing with how Spider-Man operates, then that’s what he is for his opinion then. At the same time though, what I think sets him apart from the bigots behind Operation: Zero Tolerance, anti-mutant campaigns, or any leader of an organization that seeks to destroy mutants, is that Jameson, as crazy as he may get, isn’t crazy enough to trade away his humanity just to get Spider-Man, the X-Men, or any other masked heroes he perceives to be vigilantes off the streets.

He seems to be consistently be written as someone who hates Spider-Man, not for what he is or what he may associate with his personal background, but more so out of his opinionated point of view that, ironically, Spider-Man isn’t being responsible enough by being a masked vigilante operating outside of the law, and that Jameson holds him to an especially high standard too. Despite that though, he consistently holds his valued standard of accountability, humanity, and responsibility towards himself and to the public at large.

Huh, so I'm a bigot. I have no tolerance for the intolerant or the intolerable.

[Electricmastro]

Huh, so I'm a bigot. I have no tolerance for the intolerant or the intolerable.

And that's just one basic definition, Oxford Learner's Dictionaries words it like this: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari.../english/bigot

"a person who has very strong, unreasonable beliefs or opinions about race, religion or politics and who will not listen to or accept the opinions of anyone who disagrees."

Cambridge Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/.../english/bigot

"a person who has strong, unreasonable ideas, esp. about race or religion, and who thinks anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong"

Many more variations I'm sure, but you get the idea.

[Electricmastro]

One could argue that mutants as a metaphor for minorities not only has become unnecessary, but outright detrimental to getting actual representation.

And as discussed previously, I think there's a solid argument to be made that Stan and Jack's genesis for the X-Men is rooted more in the effects of nuclear war than in minority prejudice. Not to say that ideas involving minority prejudice can't be incorporated into X-Men plots of course, but when it comes to differentiating between the mutants in X-Men and real life minorities, I think it's still important to keep in mind.

[BroHomo]

How would it be determinable

At any rate, if Jameson can, perhaps objectively, be classified as a bigot, like how BroHomo and Stan Lee were getting at, because of disagreeing with how Spider-Man operates, then that’s what he is for his opinion then. At the same time though, what I think sets him apart from the bigots behind Operation: Zero Tolerance, anti-mutant campaigns, or any leader of an organization that seeks to destroy mutants, is that Jameson, as crazy as he may get, isn’t crazy enough to trade away his humanity just to get Spider-Man, the X-Men, or any other masked heroes he perceives to be vigilantes off the streets.

that is something that you'd have to "admire"about JJ