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  1. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The thing is, most mutants don't have dangerous powers. The vast majority are actually people like Beak. Of course these are superhero comics so the narratives focus on those with skills that are interesting in fighting.
    The problem remains that ANY person who's X-gene manifest or is born with them, could have these dangerous powers.
    And then it only takes one to abuse said powers or be unable to controll them, that the fear of mutants gains an uncomfortable understandable point.

    There is no freak accident involving cosmic radiation or lab experiments gone wrong, no super soldier treatments, no magic/dangerous knowledge obtained, no alien power transfer, no demon/angel ancestors hundreds of years ago, no terrigan mist that needs to be inhaled first. Not even a certain uniformity in powers like most alien or magic species in the marvel universe have. Elements that could explain how and when someone gains power or what powers they gained.
    Instead it's just a random chance that any moment any human could gain powers that endanger themself and/or everyone around them.

    If a normal human would meet Leech, who could be said to be the least dangerous mutant to them imaginable, how are they supposed to know that it's just a sweet kid who looks mutated and not someone who makes you explode by sneezing or manipulates your mind into walking against a wall for 20 hours?
    And that's a situation where a person can actualy see they are meeting a mutant

    It's the randomized nature of these powers and the danger related to them, that makes X-gene mutants something quite different than minorities in real life. Because the fear of mutants can be said to have a certain point. Which is why the X-men franchise need to be seen as fiction first and not fully applicable to something in real life.

    Of course that doesn't mean that the mutant metaphor for various groups of minorities isn't applicable. Just like the various alien or fantasy races in other works of fiction, it's an easy basis to relate to real life events or situations.
    But it doesn't work flawlessly to that end, because there is an element of logic to the fear.
    Which indeed can be attributed to the super hero nature, which demands that heros and villains need to have impressive or terrifying powers for big splash page fight scenes. Likewise that the door needs to be open for writers to insert any power they desire on a new characters. From atomic sneezing to turning water into lemon juice.

    If being a mutant in the marvel universe would only involve looking unusual or animalistic and would only come with a fixed set of easily recognizable powers. The hysteria about mutants would have less basis.

    However one metaphor that could be applied even with fear of mutant having an understandable factor, is of a society in a situation of fast change and how people manage to adept to it or try to enforce a status quo that can't or shouldn't be achieved.
    A metaphor that can fit to both normal human and mutant characters alike in the marvel universe.
    Last edited by Grunty; 07-05-2020 at 05:42 PM.

  2. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    I've never said Apocalypse and Sinister aren't villains. The villanous alliance has reasons behind it, but you don't want to listen and you only want to look for "details" when it comes to other heroes.
    Could have fooled me, they're not treated as such on this forum. They're heroes. Did you think Walter White was the good guy in Breaking Bad? We all know as long as theres reasons you'll go along with the super-villians because was they've done to other mutants and humans isn't bad in your view.

    Don't "stop" me.
    Don't patronise me.
    None of that is punishment. That's villains taking over, life getting harsh and him making more mistakes and bad choices (him making a database was bad in the first place, he was just trying to fix his terrible mistakes). The X-Men were sent to prison after AvX and the P5 were persecuted by the Avengers. Stark and Reed did bad stuff without Phoenix Influence. Stark also created Sentinels, how about that. They ended up exactly like the Sol Hammer.
    Of course that's punishment. Except you like villains, this comes off as hypocrisy with Krakoa. They were only villains for those storylines due to bad writing, they're not supposed to be super-villains. You say that like the only times the X-men have done something bad was in those events. Stark created Sentinels Underground the Red Skull's mind control. And if the X-men's technology got stolen by ORCHIS they'd be conspirators, right? That's the logic of your assertion.

    I was talking about Namor and Incursions btw, not the AvX stuff under Phoenix influence. Xavier was arguably the most humane of the Illuminati. Beast is a piece of ****, next news.
    Xavier gets a pass, here I thought being on the Illuminati was bad.

    You can't declare stuff bad writing so it fits your arguments. I have indeed read the material I'm talking about.
    It's bad writing because its bad writing, do you like Mark Millar? Doubtful.

    You do realize that I was giving you a taste of your medicine? Most of your arguments about villains on Krakoa ignore context, reasons and details, but yet here you are defending the FF and asking me to take nuances into consideration.
    You seem awfully hung up on people being worried about super-villains rather than their victims or what they an do to be more dangerous. And you ignore the context of who the villains are, they're in Krakoa, they won't hurt a fly. Except when they do, but they're "useful" so they get passes. You're right, I never should have expected nuance to be a factor in these arguments. That you're comparing the super-villains on Krakoa to the FF speaks volumes.

    The FF could become celebrities because they're white, straight and humans. The X-Men have done PR work and they've been costumed heroes in the past, but yet the world still hates them.
    Once again ignoring why they did it. The X-men are horrible at PR work, they've rarely been good at that. Maybe if they had put more effort into making that a priority they'd be more well liked - it's not Xavier or Emma couldn't afford the consultants.


    Have you read any X-Men stuff outside of scans about Apocalypse?
    Sure. Have you read anything with Apocalypse in it before Krakoa?

    Nope, he disabled his X-Gene so he couldn't go through the portal. That's still experimenting on your own kid without his consent.
    Until he was 18. Which Reed shouldn't have done, meanwhile Xavier is altering peoples memories when they resurrect. It's fascinating that you're scrutinising Reed for this but with Sinister it's nothing.

    Blaming editorial, blaming bad writing.

    When it applies to the writing. But this accounts for events out of universe so it'll be ignored, because why not? It's not like what editorial and writers affect what characters do in comic books, that's be preposterous.



    You do realize that a crime done by a supervillain is different than a racial/hate crime towards a species or a minority? This is a weak argument. All heroes fight super villains, not all heroes come together to fight the same one, and some are government sanctioned and they do that as their job, but some heroes close an eye when their government kills some of their citizens belonging to a minority. It's been acknowledged on paper both in Civil War and AvX that human superheroes never cared or got involved in mutant issues, so it's not just mutant books that say that.
    Stop making straw men I never said. No, not all super-heroes fight super-villains when they appear, and the X-men don't get involved unless its a rare occasion, even when the Earth is threatened. Completely ignoring the context I was referring to despite the fact it's in the X-men's interest to protect the world ad the Avengers are their allies, but they're not mutants so when Ultron destroys countries the X-men won't lift a finger. Again, bad writing but this reinforces your worst fears about humanity in Marvel so it must not be questioned.

    And the comment about asking the FF to get involved is fun when you see their reaction to Krakoa when they met Scott at the start of HoX. They're entitled and privilegied and you can see that from Sue's words to Scott. She was one hashtag away from saying all lives matter to Scott. Also, why would they need their help, Krakoa is doing good.
    All she did was ask about the amnesty, and Cyclops bit her head off.

    [img] https://abload.de/img/38r8jp5.jpg [/img]

    But she was a rich, white, human woman she shouldn't be questioning the actions of rich, white mutant men. Be consistent with entitlement and privilege, don't just say it's bad when it's about non-mutants.

    What does the steal line mean?
    In House of X#1 Krakoa sent Sabretooth and Mystique to steal technology information invented by Stark and Reed from Damage Control, it's the incident where Sabretooth maimed the guards.

    As if you haven't been impliying the X-men are villains because of Krakoa.
    Once again cherrypicking what I said for a black and white argument, the X-men didn't begin with Krakoa. It's quite strange that when I say Krkaoa are villains it's bad but when any mutant super-villains are questioned the defense can't get there fast enough.

    To prepare them for a world that hates and fears them. They also became an almost excting species and had Purifiers burn them alive. So yeah, good thing the students knew how to defend themselves.
    Xavier's not sending them off to be accountants, they're child soldiers. It's bizarre how child endangerment is presented in a positive light when it's mutants doing it. Ignoring the fact half the threats they face are mutants themselves. Xavier was doing this for years before Decimation. As in, back when the X-men worked for the FBI. Which also makes them cops!

    Only a bad mother would sent a 5 years old to live with Doom. But Doom was also their teammate for a long while, maybe they're friends. You can be friends with villains and have them in your team when you're in the FF, I guess.
    [quote]

    It's telling how Sue's singled out here, rather than both parents in your mistaken insult. You really don't follow the FF. I agree Doom shouldn't have been allowed in the Foundation, you won't say the same about the super-villains in Krakoa. The real reason you don't like Doom is that he's human super-villain, rather than a mutant super-villain when the proper response is to say they're all untrustworthy and dangerous.

    Are you going to ask this again? You need to be condescending to make a point?
    It's not condescending when you don't even know what your talking about with characters who aren't mutants. Perhaps one day you'll realise that in Marvel not every human is an anti-mutant bigot but it won't be this day.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 07-05-2020 at 05:26 PM.

  3. #1293
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5036173]Could have fooled me, they're not treated as such on this forum. They're heroes. Did you think Walter White was the good guy in Breaking Bad? We all know as long as theres reasons you'll go along with the super-villians because was they've done to other mutants and humans isn't bad in your view.



    Don't patronise me.


    Of course that's punishment. Except you like villains, this comes off as hypocrisy with Krakoa. They were only villains for those storylines due to bad writing, they're not supposed to be super-villains. You say that like the only times the X-men have done something bad was in those events. Stark created Sentinels Underground the Red Skull's mind control. And if the X-men's technology got stolen by ORCHIS they'd be conspirators, right? That's the logic of your assertion.



    Xavier gets a pass, here I thought being on the Illuminati was bad.



    It's bad writing because its bad writing, do you like Mark Millar? Doubtful.



    You seem awfully hung up on people being worried about super-villains rather than their victims or what they an do to be more dangerous. And you ignore the context of who the villains are, they're in Krakoa, they won't hurt a fly. Except when they do, but they're "useful" so they get passes. You're right, I never should have expected nuance to be a factor in these arguments. That you're comparing the super-villains on Krakoa to the FF speaks volumes.



    Once again ignoring why they did it. The X-men are horrible at PR work, they've rarely been good at that. Maybe if they had put more effort into making that a priority they'd be more well liked - it's not Xavier or Emma couldn't afford the consultants.




    Sure. Have you read anything with Apocalypse in it before Krakoa?



    Until he was 18. Which Reed shouldn't have done, meanwhile Xavier is altering peoples memories when they resurrect. It's fascinating that you're scrutinising Reed for this but with Sinister it's nothing.



    When it applies to the writing. But this accounts for events out of universe so it'll be ignored, because why not? It's not like what editorial and writers affect what characters do in comic books, that's be preposterous.





    Stop making straw men I never said. No, not all super-heroes fight super-villains when they appear, and the X-men don't get involved unless its a rare occasion, even when the Earth is threatened. Completely ignoring the context I was referring to despite the fact it's in the X-men's interest to protect the world ad the Avengers are their allies, but they're not mutants so when Ultron destroys countries the X-men won't lift a finger. Again, bad writing but this reinforces your worst fears about humanity in Marvel so it must not be questioned.



    All she did was ask about the amnesty, and Cyclops bit her head off.

    [img] https://abload.de/img/38r8jp5.jpg [/img]

    But she was a rich, white, human woman she shouldn't be questioning the actions of rich, white mutant men. Be consistent with entitlement and privilege, don't just say it's bad when it's about non-mutants.



    In House of X#1 Krakoa sent Sabretooth and Mystique to steal technology information invented by Stark and Reed from Damage Control, it's the incident where Sabretooth maimed the guards.



    Once again cherrypicking what I said for a black and white argument, the X-men didn't begin with Krakoa. It's quite strange that when I say Krkaoa are villains it's bad but when any mutant super-villains are questioned the defense can't get there fast enough.



    Xavier's not sending them off to be accountants, they're child soldiers. It's bizarre how child endangerment is presented in a positive light when it's mutants doing it. Ignoring the fact half the threats they face are mutants themselves. Xavier was doing this for years before Decimation. As in, back when the X-men worked for the FBI. Which also makes them cops!


    It's telling how Sue's singled out here, rather than both parents in your mistaken insult. You really don't follow the FF. I agree Doom shouldn't have been allowed in the Foundation, you won't say the same about the super-villains in Krakoa. The real reason you don't like Doom is that he's human super-villain, rather than a mutant super-villain when the proper response is to say they're all untrustworthy and dangerous.



    It's not condescending when you don't even know what your talking about with characters who aren't mutants. Perhaps one day you'll realise that in Marvel not every human is an anti-mutant bigot but it won't be this day.
    the xmen were never working for the Us government....not in any law enforcing capacity.

    smh Dude...
    GrindrStone(D)

  4. #1294
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post

    the xmen were never working for the Us government....not in any law enforcing capacity.

    smh Dude...
    You don't remember Fred Duncan, do you? He was the X-men's FBI liaison way back in the early days of the book.

    At one point, he even ordered the team to disband when Xavier was believed to be dead and the X-men went right along with it.

  5. #1295
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Everything of "all mutants could be dangerous and the public does not know how to differentiate them" applies as I have also said to all the geniuses of the Marvel universe.

    A guy in a lab coat who has given himself powers in an accident is more likely to kill you than a mutant.

    And nobody in 616 discriminates against smart people, when they are potentially very dangerous.

  6. #1296
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    You don't remember Fred Duncan, do you? He was the X-men's FBI liaison way back in the early days of the book.

    At one point, he even ordered the team to disband when Xavier was believed to be dead and the X-men went right along with it.
    They worked with him, not for him. The closest we got with X-men working for the US government was the second incarnation of X-Factor and they werent acting in the capacity as X-men

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