How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Electricmastro]

I kind of thought that the extinction eras did not make sense for a minority but after Krakoa was established I can understand that mutants are close parallels to Jewish people right now. Both emerged from genocide to build their own nation-state that is very controversial albeit for different reasons. Israel is controversial mainly due to its treatment of Palestinians. Krakoa is controversial over the fear that it will treat the entire human race as Israel does to Palestinians.

Kurt Busiek also made a Jew comparison with Marvels (1994) too actually.

[tuck frump]

Except not really? Like at all? That only makes sense if you go by the entirety of human history. Individual mutants have had higher body counts than entire wars. Comparing the lives lost because of wars and massacres to the lives lost because of even individual mutants and saying they're the same thing actually IS disingenuous.

Propaganda. The notable instances of mutants mass murdering humans are Magneto when he wasnt taking his bipolarity treatment, Archangel under Remender.... and that's it. Planet X was an anti mutant ploy orchestrated by Sublime. Mystique might have blown up a building or a plane here or there, but that's three individuals. Out of millions.

[pkingdom]

I kind of thought that the extinction eras did not make sense for a minority but after Krakoa was established I can understand that mutants are close parallels to Jewish people right now. Both emerged from genocide to build their own nation-state that is very controversial albeit for different reasons. Israel is controversial mainly due to its treatment of Palestinians. Krakoa is controversial over the fear that it will treat the entire human race as Israel does to Palestinians.

That's a comparison I see a lot, and the books are really pushing it. Even had a super on the nose reference to Jerusalem. But then you add in Magneto calling mutants new gods, and Xavier's super uncomfortable "WE WILL REPLACE YOU" pyschic temper tantrum. That's making mutants almost into a white supremacists' version of Jews.

[pkingdom]

Propaganda. The notable instances of mutants mass murdering humans are Magneto when he wasnt taking his bipolarity treatment, Archangel under Remender.... and that's it. Planet X was an anti mutant ploy orchestrated by Sublime. Mystique might have blown up a building or a plane here or there, but that's three individuals. Out of millions.

Except for Iceman causing a winter apocalypse, Sabretooth killing hundreds in his lifetime, the entire Phoenix Force 5 debacle, the Phoenix in general, all of the times Storm freaked out and nearly destroyed the world with her powers, the multiple mass mind control plans, Apocalypse and Sinister in general....

It doesn't even have to result in a high body count for mutants to be terrifying. I'm not going to dig through the entire X history and point out every time a mutant wrecked stuff.

[Starfish]

That's a comparison I see a lot, and the books are really pushing it. Even had a super on the nose reference to Jerusalem. But then you add in Magneto calling mutants new gods, and Xavier's super uncomfortable "WE WILL REPLACE YOU" pyschic temper tantrum. That's making mutants almost into a white supremacists' version of Jews.

Between tying citizen rights to possessing the proper genes and fertility promoted by law, Isreal is not the nation that comes to my mind when drawing real life parallels from Krakoan policies.

[tuck frump]

You're correct on the Iceman thing. That's it. When has Storm lost control of her powers causing massive loss of human lives? Apocalypse and Sinister never have never targetted humans. Sabretooth is your run of the mill serial killer. None of this justifies the persecution of an entire race. Even if you were right on all accounts that would still amount to a dozen of individuals at most.

[Electricmastro]

That's a comparison I see a lot, and the books are really pushing it. Even had a super on the nose reference to Jerusalem. But then you add in Magneto calling mutants new gods, and Xavier's super uncomfortable "WE WILL REPLACE YOU" pyschic temper tantrum. That's making mutants almost into a white supremacists' version of Jews.

It recently came to my attention that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby may have been inspired by a December, 1953 Mechanix Illustrated Magazine article called "How Nuclear Radiation Can Change Our Race" (written by O. O. Binder, who wrote for Captain Marvel Adventures and co-created Supergirl actually), which presents the idea of a mutant species of supermen arising from an atom war, either to assist or dominate humanity, and may serve as an unofficial explanation as to what may fuel many humans' fiery prejudice towards mutants on Earth-616 in the first place: http://blog.modernmechanix.com/how-n...ange-our-race/

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

It recently came to my attention that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby may have been inspired by a December, 1953 Mechanix Illustrated Magazine article called "How Nuclear Radiation Can Change Our Race" (written by O. O. Binder, who wrote for Captain Marvel Adventures and co-created Supergirl actually), which presents the idea of a mutant species of supermen arising from an atom war, either to assist or dominate humanity, which may serve as an unofficial explanation as to what may fuel humans' fiery prejudice towards mutants on Earth 616 in the first place: http://blog.modernmechanix.com/how-n...ange-our-race/

Huh, look at that; Homo-Superior right there.

...Kinda surprised nobody ever spoke up about that when X-Men really took off, actually? But then, I guess if nobody's tried to trade-mark it and they've just used it as a term, then?

[Electricmastro]

Huh, look at that; Homo-Superior right there.

...Kinda surprised nobody ever spoke up about that when X-Men really took off, actually? But then, I guess if nobody's tried to trade-mark it and they've just used it as a term, then?

Yeah, in addition to that and Children of the Atom (1953), there's also The Chrysalids (1955) and Perry Rhodan's Mutant Corps (1961). Though many writers at Marvel seem to use such terms as a reflection/allegory for minorities, such as racial minorities, in real life, I'm not entirely sure if all the previous writers who used "homo superior" and "mutant" ever intended for the words to be used that way: http://www.projectrho.com/public_htm...y2.php#mutants

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yeah, in addition to that and Children of the Atom (1953), there's also The Chrysalids (1955) and Perry Rhodan's Mutant Corps (1961). Many writers at Marvel seem to use such terms as a reflection/allegory for minorities, such as racial minorities, in real life, though I'm not entirely sure if all the previous authors who used "homo superior" and "mutant" intended for the words to be used that way: http://www.projectrho.com/public_htm...hp#id--Mutants

Ya know, funny you should mention the Chrysalids; I loved the Midwitch Cuckoo's by the same author and, honest to god, I keep seeing the same pattern of speech as 'The Children' were written in then as Hickman's writing them now. That further carries over to the 1995 adaption "Village of the damned"...Look, all I'm saying is Mara is a tiny Magneto. Same manner of speech, same drive to dominate rather than co-exist (In her words "If we were to coexist then we would dominate you." ) Really uncanny, actually.

Edit: Found the scene! See for yourselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlkvQ0NbjUs

[PwrdOn]

That's a comparison I see a lot, and the books are really pushing it. Even had a super on the nose reference to Jerusalem. But then you add in Magneto calling mutants new gods, and Xavier's super uncomfortable "WE WILL REPLACE YOU" pyschic temper tantrum. That's making mutants almost into a white supremacists' version of Jews.

That does present an interesting angle though, because in real life there have been plenty of cases where a struggle for liberation turns into ugly ethno-fascist demagoguery, and it's quite difficult to draw a clear line where the former ends and the latter begins. The idea that mutants are the next stage of evolution destined to replace humans sounds quite troubling when you imagine that there are plenty of mutants who have interpreted that as an obligation to wipe out humanity in an apocalyptic race war, and have more than enough power to carry that out.

[tuck frump]

That does present an interesting angle though, because in real life there have been plenty of cases where a struggle for liberation turns into ugly ethno-fascist demagoguery, and it's quite difficult to draw a clear line where the former ends and the latter begins. The idea that mutants are the next stage of evolution destined to replace humans sounds quite troubling when you imagine that there are plenty of mutants who have interpreted that as an obligation to wipe out humanity in an apocalyptic race war, and have more than enough power to carry that out.

There's ONE mutant following that train of thought. Formerly. And every time he tried something funny the XMen took him out.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That does present an interesting angle though, because in real life there have been plenty of cases where a struggle for liberation turns into ugly ethno-fascist demagoguery, and it's quite difficult to draw a clear line where the former ends and the latter begins. The idea that mutants are the next stage of evolution destined to replace humans sounds quite troubling when you imagine that there are plenty of mutants who have interpreted that as an obligation to wipe out humanity in an apocalyptic race war, and have more than enough power to carry that out.

Which, in turn, is where I guess some of us readers' concern comes from? And why we want to see clear clarification as to where some characters stand on it, such as Scott and Ororo; we don't want to see them fall into the exact same pit-falls because we know that they're better and stronger than that. We're rooting for their success, their pride and such, but not at the cost of their moral integrity....because, as you say, in real life we've seen the cycle.

(Just to clarify, I do not think that all mutants are suddenly going to go this way.)

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

There's ONE mutant following that train of thought. Formerly. And every time he tried something funny the XMen took him out.

And Mystique, don't forget. The reverse legacy virus.

[Electricmastro]

Ya know, funny you should mention the Chrysalids; I loved the Midwitch Cuckoo's by the same author and, honest to god, I keep seeing the same pattern of speech as 'The Children' were written in then as Hickman's writing them now. That further carries over to the 1995 adaption "Village of the damned"...Look, all I'm saying is Mara is a tiny Magneto. Same manner of speech, same drive to dominate rather than co-exist (In her words "If we were to coexist then we would dominate you." ) Really uncanny, actually.

Edit: Found the scene! See for yourselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlkvQ0NbjUs

Hmm... interesting comparison with Magneto and his drive to dominate being bigger than his drive to co-exist.