How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Killerbee911]

It doesnt matter, you only need one bad example and people can start the generalization, if fact, is even worse, Creed, Stryker, Leper queen, Price, all of them could turn the population against mutants usings the bad examples of Electro, Lizard, Sandman, ect.. in order to fulfill their goal.

Holocaust, Trail of tears, Atlantic Slave trade, Apartheid, The Crusades... KKK, Nazis,.... Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, A bunch of mass shooters.. I am doing it right? I understand you're not okaying it but in trying to justify the logic those people in a way you are okaying it. It is never right to generalize and in real life despite the things I have point out people are not treating with white people like monsters. Most of society isn't running away from white males because they might be a mass shooter or serial killer. Humans are capable of separating the individual from the masses. Mutants aren't Vampire or Zombies who all have the base trait in world where they are giving out information on mutants,the people aka society on whole should logically do what happens in real life which is a larger group of people be rational about the issue or indifferent not caring and smaller group be irrational aholes.

It is fine that Marvel has different logic from the real world, If Marvel was trying to closer ressemble the real world mutants and superhumans would be treated significant differently. DC does a better job in reflecting the real world than Marvel. Of course this mainly happens because all superpower humans even magic are under one grouping.

[Maestro 216]

But the fear of a white person shooting a minority is the threat. Just the idea causes tension.

[Metal Sphere]

But the fear of a white person shooting a minority is the threat. Just the idea causes tension.

Yup, just the idea of a mutant like Emma Frost telepathically commanding you to give up all personal information or abuse your family members would create massive tension and fear. Sprinkle in that your children could become dangerous like this at any time. Add in the actual acts of terrorism from mutant terrorists that loudly proclaim they want human extinction and/or subjugation and the source of the fear is pretty clear. Now, is the repulsive garbage that comes about via MU legislation, killer robots, etc... justified? No. Mutants should be taken on a case by case basis, the ones with unstable powers separated from the rest and trained, dangerous ones separated from the general population and imprisoned, extremely dangerous ones depowered, and a general respect of life and dignity should be maintained. This is the stuff that makes the comparison to real life minorities fall apart. Human minorities in the real world are none of those things.

But this is not a bad thing, as there is actual narrative worth in exploring the many ways mutants are compatible or incompatible with human society. The compromises that would have to be made, countering decades of fear and propaganda, mutant revolutionaries reexamining their place in the world once mutants are somewhat accepted, mutant villains whose desires would ruin the stability their people have gained and potentially being rejected by them to avoid guilt by association. Krakoa's plan to buy off human schools, media, institutions and the media is interesting because of that. It raises some questions about possible scenarios. For example, what if some mutants are not happy with cooexistence and want vengeance against 'flatscans'? Do mutant owned media outlets even cover events that show mutant misbehavior? Do mutant funded schools teach a mutant centric version of history? Does Apocalypse's actions get white washed and diminished like how current history books written by my fellow Americans downplay and rename the slave trade?

[Lapsus]

Holocaust, Trail of tears, Atlantic Slave trade, Apartheid, The Crusades... KKK, Nazis,.... Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, A bunch of mass shooters.. I am doing it right? I understand you're not okaying it but in trying to justify the logic those people in a way you are okaying it. It is never right to generalize and in real life despite the things I have point out people are not treating with white people like monsters. Most of society isn't running away from white males because they might be a mass shooter or serial killer. Humans are capable of separating the individual from the masses. Mutants aren't Vampire or Zombies who all have the base trait in world where they are giving out information on mutants,the people aka society on whole should logically do what happens in real life which is a larger group of people be rational about the issue or indifferent not caring and smaller group be irrational aholes.

It is fine that Marvel has different logic from the real world, If Marvel was trying to closer ressemble the real world mutants and superhumans would be treated significant differently. DC does a better job in reflecting the real world than Marvel. Of course this mainly happens because all superpower humans even magic are under one grouping.

You are taking out every context in those conflicts in order to fit your argument in a simplistic way. Many of those conflicts and wars cant be attributed to a single person, Hitler was the head of state of Germany but is he the only one responsible for the Holocaust? besides white people arent a single group, and yes, even today there is still prejudice between different ethnics of white people because of past conflicts. Finally, many of those conflicts have historic repercussions before and after, it cant be compared to humans having godlike powers.


Think about the prejudice about muslims, the idea that they are terrorist despite the fact that they are the largest number of victims of terrorist attacks.

Blame Marvel writers for creating "inestable" Mutants, you know what, you dont even need inestable Mutants, the mere fact that people can exist with powers like Telepathy, the mere thought is frightening and i cant compare that feel with anything in our world.

[Zelena]

But the fear of a white person shooting a minority is the threat. Just the idea causes tension.

Personally, the thought that anyone can shoot a large bunch of people in a few seconds causes me uneasiness…
Human mind remains a mystery and we are far from "Minority Report" in the real world…

[Zelena]

Yup, just the idea of a mutant like Emma Frost telepathically commanding you to give up all personal information or abuse your family members would create massive tension and fear.

Hmm, mutants in general are not particularly immune to the likes of Emma, too…

Surely, the mutants can understand that telepaths and people who can control your mind tend to make people more than defensive. How many times the X-men have been mind-controlled?

Krakoa's plan to buy off human schools, media, institutions and the media is interesting because of that.

A move that could be seen as compromising and invasive and trigger backlash. Krakoa is a foreign power.

[Killerbee911]

the mere fact that people can exist with powers like Telepathy, the mere thought is frightening and i cant compare that feel with anything in our world.

You can't I can but I can because some of live us it.

They are people who treat black skin as if it was weapon and " because this amount of black people are uneducated and violent that ALL black people are violent". It does matter how much scarier you think telepathy is it is not the picture of the whole group. And as I pointed out people are very capable in real life going " Hey that mass shooter/Serial killer he is lone wolf and doesn't represent the great population". Humans/Mutants are individuals they can't be judged on whole. When you are on the other side of people judging from other people it is different feeling and it something that shouldn't happen to anyone even fictional characters. I don't care if a mutant had the ability to blow up the whole world common sense will tell me to treat him like a mutant who can blow up the world and and rest normally until I find out if they can blow up the world too and treat each accordingly. Because that is what non bigoted people do in real life not treat people individually.

The second you go well "Hey are a lot of muslim terrorist we don't know who to be scared of then should be scared/wary of all them" that is the problem and they are real people will point things and stats in black,gay, muslim and other minorities communities that are just as real supposedly and scary to them as telepathy. The degree of danger doesn't change a thing in the equation because they don't represent the whole group just like in real life Trump who has the ability to start world war 3 doesn't represent all white people. The level of danger of the person does not change anything in the argument.

Some Gay people have aids and some molest kids ,We should be afraid/wary of all gay people
Some Black and Mexicans people are in gangs and kill people and sell drugs ,We should be afraid /wary of all black and mexican people
Some Muslims are terrorists,We should be afraid/wary of all them
Some mutants can do amazing scary things,We should be be afraid wary of all them.

None of the first statements are wrong they are "some" but when people want to be bigoted and racist it is easy cop out and be "scared of everyone" because you don't know who is the threat. But this doesn't happen to majority though hence me point out all the atrocities and bad things that white ethnic groups,race or people have done. The majority has capacity to go "That serial killer doesn't represent us, The KKK and Nazi don't represent us, The slavery and extreme racial prejudice that wasn't us that was our forefathers,etc". You are not wrong in general that is how some people think and you are hitting dead on what is the cause of hate.

Where you are wrong is trying to okay the being afraid of one mutant means should be afraid all is different than in real life because of the increase danger of what individual mutant can do. It is no different than real life and maybe if mutants were zombies and all had same pattern and powers you would be right but every mutant is individual. And as I mentioned before despite "the evidence" you never see the majority going "well large amount of mass shooter are white males therefore there is a problem with ALL white males". They(the majority) are perfect capable of not judging a whole group as a whole .

Anyways I think I have clearly express my point and it applies to mutants in Marvel as well they shouldn't be mass lumping ALL humans together as bad .Statistically most humans shouldn't be mutant hating bigots the vast majority should be okay or indifferent but that is where problem comes in with X-men franchise. Humans governments are clowish evil in Marvel that working with all the evil mutants and aggressive posture towards humans doesn't seem that bad in the face of government sanctioned genocide in the most liberal countries.

[BroHomo]

You can't I can but I can because some of live us it.

They are people who treat black skin as if it was weapon and " because this amount of black people are uneducated and violent that ALL black people are violent". It does matter how much scarier you think telepathy is it is not the picture of the whole group. And as I pointed out people are very capable in real life going " Hey that mass shooter/Serial killer he is lone wolf and doesn't represent the great population". Humans/Mutants are individuals they can't be judged on whole. When you are on the other side of people judging from other people it is different feeling and it something that shouldn't happen to anyone even fictional characters. I don't care if a mutant had the ability to blow up the whole world common sense will tell me to treat him like a mutant who can blow up the world and and rest normally until I find out if they can blow up the world too and treat each accordingly. Because that is what non bigoted people do in real life not treat people individually.

The second you go well "Hey are a lot of muslim terrorist we don't know who to be scared of then should be scared/wary of all them" that is the problem and they are real people will point things and stats in black,gay, muslim and other minorities communities that are just as real supposedly and scary to them as telepathy. The degree of danger doesn't change a thing in the equation because they don't represent the whole group just like in real life Trump who has the ability to start world war 3 doesn't represent all white people. The level of danger of the person does not change anything in the argument.

Some Gay people have aids and some molest kids ,We should be afraid/wary of all gay people
Some Black and Mexicans people are in gangs and kill people and sell drugs ,We should be afraid /wary of all black and mexican people
Some Muslims are terrorists,We should be afraid/wary of all them
Some mutants can do amazing scary things,We should be be afraid wary of all them.

None of the first statements are wrong they are "some" but when people want to be bigoted and racist it is easy cop out and be "scared of everyone" because you don't know who is the threat. But this doesn't happen to majority though hence me point out all the atrocities and bad things that white ethnic groups,race or people have done. The majority has capacity to go "That serial killer doesn't represent us, The KKK and Nazi don't represent us, The slavery and extreme racial prejudice that wasn't us that was our forefathers,etc". You are not wrong in general that is how some people think and you are hitting dead on what is the cause of hate.

Where you are wrong is trying to okay the being afraid of one mutant means should be afraid all is different than in real life because of the increase danger of what individual mutant can do. It is no different than real life and maybe if mutants were zombies and all had same pattern and powers you would be right but every mutant is individual. And as I mentioned before despite "the evidence" you never see the majority going "well large amount of mass shooter are white males therefore there is a problem with ALL white males". They(the majority) are perfect capable of not judging a whole group as a whole .

Anyways I think I have clearly express my point and it applies to mutants in Marvel as well they shouldn't be mass lumping ALL humans together as bad .Statistically most humans shouldn't be mutant hating bigots the vast majority should be okay or indifferent but that is where problem comes in with X-men franchise. Humans governments are clowish evil in Marvel that working with all the evil mutants and aggressive posture towards humans doesn't seem that bad in the face of government sanctioned genocide in the most liberal countries.

Damn Dude, Posting pure excellence

[Kisinith]

You can't I can but I can because some of live us it.

They are people who treat black skin as if it was weapon and " because this amount of black people are uneducated and violent that ALL black people are violent". It does matter how much scarier you think telepathy is it is not the picture of the whole group. And as I pointed out people are very capable in real life going " Hey that mass shooter/Serial killer he is lone wolf and doesn't represent the great population". Humans/Mutants are individuals they can't be judged on whole. When you are on the other side of people judging from other people it is different feeling and it something that shouldn't happen to anyone even fictional characters. I don't care if a mutant had the ability to blow up the whole world common sense will tell me to treat him like a mutant who can blow up the world and and rest normally until I find out if they can blow up the world too and treat each accordingly. Because that is what non bigoted people do in real life not treat people individually.

The second you go well "Hey are a lot of muslim terrorist we don't know who to be scared of then should be scared/wary of all them" that is the problem and they are real people will point things and stats in black,gay, muslim and other minorities communities that are just as real supposedly and scary to them as telepathy. The degree of danger doesn't change a thing in the equation because they don't represent the whole group just like in real life Trump who has the ability to start world war 3 doesn't represent all white people. The level of danger of the person does not change anything in the argument.

Some Gay people have aids and some molest kids ,We should be afraid/wary of all gay people
Some Black and Mexicans people are in gangs and kill people and sell drugs ,We should be afraid /wary of all black and mexican people
Some Muslims are terrorists,We should be afraid/wary of all them
Some mutants can do amazing scary things,We should be be afraid wary of all them.

None of the first statements are wrong they are "some" but when people want to be bigoted and racist it is easy cop out and be "scared of everyone" because you don't know who is the threat. But this doesn't happen to majority though hence me point out all the atrocities and bad things that white ethnic groups,race or people have done. The majority has capacity to go "That serial killer doesn't represent us, The KKK and Nazi don't represent us, The slavery and extreme racial prejudice that wasn't us that was our forefathers,etc". You are not wrong in general that is how some people think and you are hitting dead on what is the cause of hate.

Where you are wrong is trying to okay the being afraid of one mutant means should be afraid all is different than in real life because of the increase danger of what individual mutant can do. It is no different than real life and maybe if mutants were zombies and all had same pattern and powers you would be right but every mutant is individual. And as I mentioned before despite "the evidence" you never see the majority going "well large amount of mass shooter are white males therefore there is a problem with ALL white males". They(the majority) are perfect capable of not judging a whole group as a whole .

Anyways I think I have clearly express my point and it applies to mutants in Marvel as well they shouldn't be mass lumping ALL humans together as bad .Statistically most humans shouldn't be mutant hating bigots the vast majority should be okay or indifferent but that is where problem comes in with X-men franchise. Humans governments are clowish evil in Marvel that working with all the evil mutants and aggressive posture towards humans doesn't seem that bad in the face of government sanctioned genocide in the most liberal countries.

Brilliant post, just to add a bit more. Racism at its core is an irrational belief. Expecting a logical argument in defense of an irrational position is itself an irrational position.
In the MU, Mutants exist, mutants have crazy powers, some mutants do terrible things, mutants may replace humanity, mutants can be hidden in any population, can be anywhere. Thats justification enough for mass hatred and fear, and in general people are great at splitting hairs about why one group is ok but another group is not. Frequently real world justifications have less merit than those in the X-Men comics.

[Zelena]

Brilliant post, just to add a bit more. Racism at its core is an irrational belief. Expecting a logical argument in defense of an irrational position is itself an irrational position.
In the MU, Mutants exist, mutants have crazy powers, some mutants do terrible things, mutants may replace humanity, mutants can be hidden in any population, can be anywhere. Thats justification enough for mass hatred and fear, and in general people are great at splitting hairs about why one group is ok but another group is not. Frequently real world justifications have less merit than those in the X-Men comics.

Racism at its core is an irrational belief… yes, but it has its causes.
You don't assuage anyone by saying: "Your fears are irrational… You see you're silly."

Racism is mostly emotional and like anything that is on this level, the only solution is to be in contact of your fears and observes: "Nothing bad happened. It isn't that I thought." And you add this experience to the past experiences. Which ends to be a belief that is as irrational as the previous belief…

[Lapsus]

You can't I can but I can because some of live us it.

They are people who treat black skin as if it was weapon and " because this amount of black people are uneducated and violent that ALL black people are violent". It does matter how much scarier you think telepathy is it is not the picture of the whole group. And as I pointed out people are very capable in real life going " Hey that mass shooter/Serial killer he is lone wolf and doesn't represent the great population". Humans/Mutants are individuals they can't be judged on whole. When you are on the other side of people judging from other people it is different feeling and it something that shouldn't happen to anyone even fictional characters. I don't care if a mutant had the ability to blow up the whole world common sense will tell me to treat him like a mutant who can blow up the world and and rest normally until I find out if they can blow up the world too and treat each accordingly. Because that is what non bigoted people do in real life not treat people individually.

There is no way that you can put fear to mutant powers in the same category with prejudice or "fear" towards black people, gay, muslims.

You dont understand, a guy with a gun can be deal with, a guy with superpowers ?? with the nasty ones ?? telepathy ?? weather control ?? explosive powers ?? become whatever you want ?? Magnetism ?? reality warper??

You are not automatically a bigot or an ingnorant for being scare of this things, because there is a legitimate fear.

second you go well "Hey are a lot of muslim terrorist we don't know who to be scared of then should be scared/wary of all them" that is the problem and they are real people will point things and stats in black,gay, muslim and other minorities communities that are just as real supposedly and scary to them as telepathy. The degree of danger doesn't change a thing in the equation because they don't represent the whole group just like in real life Trump who has the ability to start world war 3 doesn't represent all white people. The level of danger of the person does not change anything in the argument.

Some Gay people have aids and some molest kids ,We should be afraid/wary of all gay people
Some Black and Mexicans people are in gangs and kill people and sell drugs ,We should be afraid /wary of all black and mexican people
Some Muslims are terrorists,We should be afraid/wary of all them
Some mutants can do amazing scary things,We should be be afraid wary of all them.

None of the first statements are wrong they are "some" but when people want to be bigoted and racist it is easy cop out and be "scared of everyone" because you don't know who is the threat. But this doesn't happen to majority though hence me point out all the atrocities and bad things that white ethnic groups,race or people have done. The majority has capacity to go "That serial killer doesn't represent us, The KKK and Nazi don't represent us, The slavery and extreme racial prejudice that wasn't us that was our forefathers,etc". You are not wrong in general that is how some people think and you are hitting dead on what is the cause of hate.

The degree of danger changes ALOT.
Gay, black, white, muslim, the damage you can cause to society is similar.

Again you cant compare being afraid of gay people with being afraid of superpowers, one is ridiculous the other is understable.

where you are wrong is trying to okay the being afraid of one mutant means should be afraid all is different than in real life because of the increase danger of what individual mutant can do. It is no different than real life and maybe if mutants were zombies and all had same pattern and powers you would be right but every mutant is individual. And as I mentioned before despite "the evidence" you never see the majority going "well large amount of mass shooter are white males therefore there is a problem with ALL white males". They(the majority) are perfect capable of not judging a whole group as a whole .

Anyways I think I have clearly express my point and it applies to mutants in Marvel as well they shouldn't be mass lumping ALL humans together as bad .Statistically most humans shouldn't be mutant hating bigots the vast majority should be okay or indifferent but that is where problem comes in with X-men franchise. Humans governments are clowish evil in Marvel that working with all the evil mutants and aggressive posture towards humans doesn't seem that bad in the face of government sanctioned genocide in the most liberal countries.

Im not telling you that being afraid of Mutants is good but is normal if mutants were real, the fear towards them cant be dismissed so easily as bigotry.

If you can break the laws of nature, why follow the laws of man ?? how many times have people abused their power in real life ?? if you are worried about mass shootings, imagine being able to teleport for example, or having mystique powers.

Of course, there would be people who would use their powers for good but the possibility of someone abusing that power is scary.

Brilliant post, just to add a bit more. Racism at its core is an irrational belief. Expecting a logical argument in defense of an irrational position is itself an irrational position.
In the MU, Mutants exist, mutants have crazy powers, some mutants do terrible things, mutants may replace humanity, mutants can be hidden in any population, can be anywhere. Thats justification enough for mass hatred and fear, and in general people are great at splitting hairs about why one group is ok but another group is not. Frequently real world justifications have less merit than those in the X-Men comics.

I see this argument many times in the forum.

Racism is irrational for us, but not for them, for a racist, his way of thinking is justified and usually follows a common ideology. I used this as an example of how unrealistic is the prejudice in the Marvel Universe.
In the real world, you are never going to hear a white racist saying how they cant stand the mexicans from Sinaloa but they are okay with the ones from Sonora. Or a KKK member saying that they respect Bantu people but they will never tolerate Hansu people.

This is what happens in the Marvel Universe, this guy with superpowers is not scary but this one is.

[BroHomo]

I see this argument many times in the forum.

Racism is irrational for us, but not for them, for a racist, his way of thinking is justified and usually follows a common ideology. I used this as an example of how unrealistic is the prejudice in the Marvel Universe.
In the real world, you are never going to hear a white racist saying how they cant stand the mexicans from Sinaloa but they are okay with the ones from Sonora. Or a KKK member saying that they respect Bantu people but they will never tolerate Hansu people.

This is what happens in the Marvel Universe, this guy with superpowers is not scary but this one is.

Errr but you do have KKK members say kill all black men. Buuut the Asian girl my son married I'd okay. Opportunity these black people are okay because they are a fe degrees whiter than those black people

[Lapsus]

Errr but you do have KKK members say kill all black men. Buuut the Asian girl my son married I'd okay. Opportunity these black people are okay because they are a fe degrees whiter than those black people

Then he is not racist towards asian people, if they dont have anything agains black women, then is obviously that they are objectifying black women but that doesnt make them less racist towards black people.

[Kisinith]

Racism at its core is an irrational belief… yes, but it has its causes.
You don't assuage anyone by saying: "Your fears are irrational… You see you're silly."

Racism is mostly emotional and like anything that is on this level, the only solution is to be in contact of your fears and observes: "Nothing bad happened. It isn't that I thought." And you add this experience to the past experiences. Which ends to be a belief that is as irrational as the previous belief…

No one was talking about dealing with racism, its been a discussion of how “realistic” is the notion of mutant-racism in the MU that has celebrated and beloved non-mutant superheroes.

Having an in-story racist make a distinction that they can love and admire a mutate (like Captain America or the Fantastic Four), a God (like Thor) or an AI (like Vision) while also discriminating against, disliking or even hating the dirty mutants isn’t unrealistic. Real world racists can split hairs exceptionally fine. Arguing that this is illogical is ignoring the inherent irrationality of racism.

I see this argument many times in the forum.

Racism is irrational for us, but not for them, for a racist, his way of thinking is justified and usually follows a common ideology. I used this as an example of how unrealistic is the prejudice in the Marvel Universe.
In the real world, you are never going to hear a white racist saying how they cant stand the mexicans from Sinaloa but they are okay with the ones from Sonora. Or a KKK member saying that they respect Bantu people but they will never tolerate Hansu people.

This is what happens in the Marvel Universe, this guy with superpowers is not scary but this one is.

Sure you do, I unfortunately know several racists and more unfortunately I’m related to a few. I hear all the time some extraordinarily fine splitting of hairs. This is even more common when I hear some of the insane garbage directed at people who are LGBTQ. I once heard my aunt saying that she was fine with gays, but trans-gendered men in the womens bathroom are all perverts and a lot of them are molesters. (For the record that did not go over well, but still). Irrational people make irrational distinctions.

Also just as an aside, there is one more thing that differentiates mutants from other superpowered groups in the MU (excluding Inhumans). Anyone can be one, and the fear that they will replace you. Mutants in the Marvel setting are referred to as the next stage of human evolution, people aren’t afraid of their powers so much as their scared about being supplanted. Mutates, Aliens, AI and gods aren’t generally portrayed as a potential successor and replacement to humanity. Thats the real underlying fear, thats the reason they are hated while others are embraced.

[Lapsus]

Also just as an aside there is one more thing that differentiates mutants from other superpowered groups in the MU (excluding Inhumans). Anyone can be one, and the fear that they will replace you. Mutants in the Marvel setting are referred to as the next stage of human evolution, people aren’t afraid of their powers so much as their scared about being supplanted. Mutates, Aliens, AI and gods aren’t generally portrayed as a potential successor and replacement to humanity. Thats the real underlying fear, thats the reason they are hated while others are embraced.

Beyond of "Is the narrative of the X-Men, they deal with prejudice so they need this" i just cant see the logic behind.

The replacement argument feels weak, the vast majority of them resemble a baseline human which is very important, there is a reason why most mutants look like humans (the popular ones) and not flyhead, is more easy to us to identify with them but at the same time, that also can apply to their world, a world with aliens, demons and robots.

You will be replaced by humans with superpowers, where is the fear ?? there is no clear distinction beyond what the writer is trying to forced upon us. Not only that, is a foregone conclusion, those replacements are your sons and daugthers, they didnt come from the moon.

In a world with beloved superheroes, the opinion about mutants should be divisive at a minimum. Yet this ignorant humans are able to identify a mutate from a mutant. Even if we buy the replacement, the reason they are feared is because of the superpowers or they inhuman looking, some mutates are way more scarier than any regular mutant.