How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Lucyinthesky]

Exactly.

I suppose the artist of this cover is from the US, I heard in some interviews they are not given much information about the comic itself to draw the cover except from a few concepts. So if Krakoa is all about the foundation of a nation then it's not far fetched this was the result even if the foundation of Krakoa doesn´t really share the events that happened during the colonioal era or the foundation of the US.

Krakoa itself is a mutant and sits at the quiet council meetings and has a vote for everything that´s happening on it, some of the mutants that have chosen to come to Krakoa were exploited for their powers but their new home affords them the oportunity to thrive and live a peaceful life, this seems like history being put on it´s head and seems that´s Hickman´s intention.

[pkingdom]

I had never heard the plot detail about the Celestials creating the X-gene. Is that canon? Where did that come from? I've seen it pop up a few times on here

[Huntsman Spider]

I had never heard the plot detail about the Celestials creating the X-gene. Is that canon? Where did that come from? I've seen it pop up a few times on here

Yeah, it's canon, in the second story for What If? #23. The Celestials' tampering with proto-humanity's evolutionary potential also resulted in the Eternals, who could be considered a (usually vastly more powerful) precursor to mutants, as well as in otherwise-baseline humans manifesting superhuman abilities after exposure to external stimuli like radiation (i.e. the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, and Spider-Man). That being said, the idea that mutants are significantly more or less (un)natural than the rest of superpowered humanity is one that should have died out long before now, especially in light of how events like the original Civil War showed that the rest of superpowered humanity is one bad day away from being as feared and loathed as mutants have been.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The goal of oppressors isn’t to “corrupt” the oppressed. The goal is to break and devalue the lives of the oppressed.

Becoming like the oppressors helps the oppressors immensely. They don't have to make up a Magneto all they have to do is point to him and any rational person will say "Maybe they're not wrong about that" which provides a hook to get them indoctrinated that all mutants are Magneto's. It's not propaganda when it's true and for as long as the X-line has existed there have numerous mutants eager to fulfil this service. This is a key step in how to break those moments by discrediting them.

Says the man who's been at war with humanity since his debut. What is it with mutant nations that allow mass murderers like Magneto rise to the top? He's done this three times now, and that's not counting House of M. Can mutants build a nation without Magneto at the top?

[Lucyinthesky]

I think it was a matter of time, some goverments were using mutants before Magneto even made it his life mission to make war with the rest of the world, him, wolverine, sabretooth, omega red, deadpool, etc were already recluted before most people knew what a mutant was, so there´s really not question of if but when other nations would do the same to other mutants less dangerous and more vulnerable than them. Genosha with it´s mutant slaves is just an example of this.

I think the reson why Magneto keeps being at the top is the fact that he´s the character who has made it a priority to give mutants a place to live in peace and he has learned that he doens´t need to be the main leader to get what he wants: from asteroid M, to Avalon, Genosha, Utopia and now Krakoa.

Utopia was Scott´s project and Magneto only supported him and Krakoa is clearly Xavier´s project, with Moira and Magneto supporting him first, then the rest of the X-men and now the rest of the mutants.

[pkingdom]

Yeah, it's canon, in the second story for What If? #23. The Celestials' tampering with proto-humanity's evolutionary potential also resulted in the Eternals, who could be considered a (usually vastly more powerful) precursor to mutants, as well as in otherwise-baseline humans manifesting superhuman abilities after exposure to external stimuli like radiation (i.e. the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, and Spider-Man). That being said, the idea that mutants are significantly more or less (un)natural than the rest of superpowered humanity is one that should have died out long before now, especially in light of how events like the original Civil War showed that the rest of superpowered humanity is one bad day away from being as feared and loathed as mutants have been.

I don't know how canon that explanation is anymore, since the Eternals had a messy retcon themselves at the start of the latest Avengers run. Something about it all just being runoff from a dead evil Celestial or something. It was dumb. Still, that explanation, tying all superpowered people to the Celestials, is better than the impression I had gotten from the discussions, where it was only the X gene. THAT would have meant that the mutants are basically the same as the Inhumans, and are just the result of outside forces messing with human genetics for their own ends.

That quote from Magneto is hilariously wrong. Genosha was founded as a mutant nation after he LITERALLY HELD THE WORLD HOSTAGE AND HAD THE U.N. TURN IT OVER! He literally conquered a nation and stole its land! And then tried to go to war with the rest of the world!

I keep editing this because that statement keeps making less and less sense the more you think about it. Apocalypse and Selene, two of the oldest mutants (and both have been said to be the first, and both are on Krakoa) literally conquered and enslaved entire civilizations.

[Tycon]

That quote from Magneto is hilariously wrong. Genosha was founded as a mutant nation after he LITERALLY HELD THE WORLD HOSTAGE AND HAD THE U.N. TURN IT OVER! He literally conquered a nation and stole its land! And then tried to go to war with the rest of the world!

I think you forgot the part where Genosha was an apartheid state that held mutants as enslaved & tortured mutates. You know what Magneto meant when he said “conquer the land, stole the land, enslaved the ppl” as he was talking about colonization.

[BroHomo]

Becoming like the oppressors helps the oppressors immensely. They don't have to make up a Magneto all they have to do is point to him and any rational person will say "Maybe they're not wrong about that" which provides a hook to get them indoctrinated that all mutants are Magneto's. It's not propaganda when it's true

Anyone who would judge a whole group of people based on the actions of a few individuals ain't rational.
I meeeeean but your example isn't true, not all mutants are Magneto. Propafy doesn't necessarily have to be untrue. It's an argument or speech that witholds information or is heavily biased in order to provoke an emotional instead of a rational response

Says the man who's been at war with humanity since his debut. What is it with mutant nations that allow mass murderers like Magneto rise to the top? He's done this three times now, and that's not counting House of M. Can mutants build a nation without Magneto at the top?

It's a war he was born into but didn't start. Many minorities sometimes share that sentiment. If you and everyone like are treated as 2nd class citizens, people brazenly attack you without reprisal, or legally murdered, the targets of towering Killer robots...it doesn't seem that different than a warzoneThey get the job done?? lol but do you think this is an exception? The birth of a Nation Is unnecessarily violent Not so much cool and collected+ having Magneto as a figurehead. He is known to most mutants as a fighting forvva better Mutant world, He intimidates ant potential enemy and he strongly believes in the idea. And in the war against Mutants Magneto probably justifies the people he's killed as casualties of war

I think the reson why Magneto keeps being at the top is the fact that he´s the character who has made it a priority to give mutants a place to live in peace and he has learned that he doens´t need to be the main leader to get what he wants: from asteroid M, to Avalon, Genosha, Utopia and now Krakoa.

Yeah Magneto's been KraKKed waaaay before KraKoa lol

I don't know how canon that explanation is anymore, since the Eternals had a messy retcon themselves at the start of the latest Avengers run. Something about it all just being runoff from a dead evil Celestial or something. It was dumb. Still, that explanation, tying all superpowered people to the Celestials, is better than the impression I had gotten from the discussions, where it was only the X gene.

THAT would have meant that the mutants are basically the same as the Inhumans, and are just the result of outside forces messing with human genetics for their own ends.
Uh yeah the Celestials mucked around in the genetics of early man turning them into... reg humans, Mutant, deviant
inhuman etc.

I That quote from Magneto is hilariously wrong. Genosha was founded as a mutant nation after he LITERALLY HELD THE WORLD HOSTAGE AND HAD THE U.N. TURN IT OVER! He literally conquered a nation and stole its land! And then tried to go to war with the rest of the world!

Hell he definitely made the right choice. Genosha had turned his people into slaves, completely took their agency+ the legacy virus was around only targeting Mutants. what else could he have done?

I keep editing this because that statement keeps making less and less sense the more you think about it. Apocalypse and Selene, two of the oldest mutants (and both have been said to be the first, and both are on Krakoa) literally conquered and enslaved entire civilizations.

Issues#??

I think you forgot the part where Genosha was an apartheid state that held mutants as enslaved & tortured mutates. You know what Magneto meant when he said “conquer the land, stole the land, enslaved the ppl” as he was talking about colonization.

YAS!!!

[Electricmastro]

I think it was a matter of time, some goverments were using mutants before Magneto even made it his life mission to make war with the rest of the world, him, wolverine, sabretooth, omega red, deadpool, etc were already recluted before most people knew what a mutant was, so there´s really not question of if but when other nations would do the same to other mutants less dangerous and more vulnerable than them. Genosha with it´s mutant slaves is just an example of this.

I think the reson why Magneto keeps being at the top is the fact that he´s the character who has made it a priority to give mutants a place to live in peace and he has learned that he doens´t need to be the main leader to get what he wants: from asteroid M, to Avalon, Genosha, Utopia and now Krakoa.

Utopia was Scott´s project and Magneto only supported him and Krakoa is clearly Xavier´s project, with Moira and Magneto supporting him first, then the rest of the X-men and now the rest of the mutants.

Yeah, wouldn’t be surprised if it was the human governments Magneto really had a problem with. He might speak as if he has a problem with humans as a whole, but there being human civilians that have genuinely showed concern, and humans that have protested against them mainly due to the propaganda the government tells them, then that’s where any grudge Magneto may have truly lay. As it has been said before that with great power comes great responsibility, then if power is used irresponsibly, then it can tends to corrupt, which goes for those having influences of power such as corrupt politicians at governments, corrupt preachers at churches, corrupt leaders of anti-mutant protests, etc.

[pkingdom]

I think you forgot the part where Genosha was an apartheid state that held mutants as enslaved & tortured mutates. You know what Magneto meant when he said “conquer the land, stole the land, enslaved the ppl” as he was talking about colonization.

Genosha was the exact opposite of apartheid. It had the majority enslaving the minority. Everybody living there were native citizens. Magneto wasn't, and as an outsider still literally conquered the country, stole the land, and expelled the people. You saying they had it coming doesn't change the fact that he did the exact thing he's claiming superiority for not doing.

Oh, and don't forget the many, many times he tried to do the same to the rest of the world, and tried to enslave all of humanity and only failed because actual heroes stopped him. And you conveniently left out Apocalype and Selene, who again, have done that successfully.

[Nigel909]

Genosha was the exact opposite of apartheid. It had the majority enslaving the minority. Everybody living there were native citizens. Magneto wasn't, and as an outsider still literally conquered the country, stole the land, and expelled the people. You saying they had it coming doesn't change the fact that he did the exact thing he's claiming superiority for not doing.

Oh, and don't forget the many, many times he tried to do the same to the rest of the world, and tried to enslave all of humanity and only failed because actual heroes stopped him. And you conveniently left out Apocalype and Selene, who again, have done that successfully.

I was going to read the Wikipedia entry for Genosha but didn't bother . The third sentence was enough . " The fictional nation of Genosha server as an allegory for slavery and later to South African apartheid , before becoming a mutant homeland and subsequently a disaster zone. "
Not the best source but for a comic , perfectly adequate.

Both Apocalypse and Selene have successfully enslaved all of humanity ?

[pkingdom]

I was going to read the Wikipedia entry for Genosha but didn't bother . The third sentence was enough . " The fictional nation of Genosha server as an allegory for slavery and later to South African apartheid , before becoming a mutant homeland and subsequently a disaster zone. "
Not the best source but for a comic , perfectly adequate.

Both Apocalypse and Selene have successfully enslaved all of humanity ?

Genosha was absolutely used as an allegory for apartheid, but got actual apartheid wrong. Apartheid South Africa had the tiny minority of wealthy white people exploiting and oppressing the majority black population. Genosha had the majority population of regular humans exploiting and enslaving the tiny mutant minority. To quote Wikipedia as well, "Apartheid was characterised by an authoritarian political culture based on baasskap (or white supremacy), which ensured that South Africa was dominated politically, socially, and economically by the nation's minority white population."

And Apocalypse and Selene conquered and enslaved civilizations. Not all of humanity, though Apocalypse and Magneto absolutely tried. Selene is too lazy.

[marhawkman]

I don't know how canon that explanation is anymore, since the Eternals had a messy retcon themselves at the start of the latest Avengers run. Something about it all just being runoff from a dead evil Celestial or something. It was dumb. Still, that explanation, tying all superpowered people to the Celestials, is better than the impression I had gotten from the discussions, where it was only the X gene. THAT would have meant that the mutants are basically the same as the Inhumans, and are just the result of outside forces messing with human genetics for their own ends.

This gets explained more in FF titles than Xmen. Basically Humans are one of several races the Celestials used for science experiments. The Inhumans are part of that. But the Inhuman races are later Kree tinkering. Such as the SKRULLS. There have been depicted in canon 5 different versions of Skrulls. Ordinary Skrulls were much like Humans but with green skin and stuffs, no powers at all. Then the Celestials mucked with the Skrull genome and created at least 3 new variants. Deviants are the Shapeshifting Skrulls we all know and love. But there were also Eternal Skrulls who lost a war with the Deviants who somehow figure out how to kill beings that should be immortal. Mutant and Inhuman Skrulls are also a thing. Allegedly only the "Prime" Skrulls which were outwardly the same as their previous forms could be Mutants, but there are examples of Mutant Deviant Skrulls. Maybe the Prime and Deviant Skrulls actually hybridized and all Mutant Deviant Skrulls are the result of Prime Skrull DNA? Inhuman Skrulls are the result of KREE genetic tinkering though and not Celestial. HOWEVER... It's been said the Skrulls became the interstellar empire they are today as a response to the Kree invading Skrullos. But the segment of the Skrull population that became the Dire Wraiths is the part the Kree turned into Inhumans. So the Skrull Inhumans are several degrees removed from baseline Skrulls. And this doesn't cover War Skrulls. We don't know why War Skrulls are a thing. They're Deviant Skrulls who take on the powers of whatever they shapeshift into. Why do only SOME of them do that? Is it related to the blood magic ritual used by Veranke? Well.. who knows? It's been suggested that in the past the Skrulls had developed some seriously out-there forms of magic. The Dire Wraiths are Skrulls mutated by Skrull magic. Maybe War Skrulls are the same thing? Veranke's ritual was "old magic".

But I digress.... It's never explained WHAT the Kree did to make Inhumans other than taking bits of DNA from Human Eternals and grafting them into other races (such as normal Humans). the hilarious thing about this is the implication that ALL non-Deviant, Non-Eternal Humans are actually latent Mutants, some are just more latent than others.

I keep editing this because that statement keeps making less and less sense the more you think about it. Apocalypse and Selene, two of the oldest mutants (and both have been said to be the first, and both are on Krakoa) literally conquered and enslaved entire civilizations.

Selene didn't do that until Necrosha, and even then it was only in the name of her own hunger for power.

[ARkadelphia]

Both Apocalypse and Selene have successfully enslaved all of humanity ?

Success is the barometer we’re supposed to use? If I attempt to murder you but do not succeed, am I not a criminal/villain/evil?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Anyone who would judge a whole group of people based on the actions of a few individuals ain't rational.
I meeeeean but your example isn't true, not all mutants are Magneto. Propafy doesn't necessarily have to be untrue. It's an argument or speech that witholds information or is heavily biased in order to provoke an emotional instead of a rational response

I just told you how bigots would exploit the few "bad apples," and unlike the real world the evil mutants Marvel has would be much quicker to radicalise people because magneto is far from the only person who does it. Large groups do this, and there are dozens of very powerful mutants like him who kill people because they're mass murdering psychopaths. It's much easier to make propaganda when you don't have make half of it out of thin air, Magneto's juts the beginning of the dangerous mutants out there. Magneto's been intrinsically linked with mutant kind with numerous nations, so he'd built in anti mutant propoganda from the start there.

It's a war he was born into but didn't start. Many minorities sometimes share that sentiment. If you and everyone like are treated as 2nd class citizens, people brazenly attack you without reprisal, or legally murdered, the targets of towering Killer robots...it doesn't seem that different than a warzoneThey get the job done?? lol but do you think this is an exception? The birth of a Nation Is unnecessarily violent Not so much cool and collected+ having Magneto as a figurehead. He is known to most mutants as a fighting forvva better Mutant world, He intimidates ant potential enemy and he strongly believes in the idea. And in the war against Mutants Magneto probably justifies the people he's killed as casualties of war

Not the context Magneto was saying, his statement was that since he hasn't taken territory of humanity he wasn't at war with them when that's untrue. Terrorist organisations do have wars with nation states, as shown with ISIS and Al Quaeda. How the oppressed fight back matters, Magneto is a figure that's not supposed to be emulated - it's like idolising Darth Vader. When Magneto began his terror campaigns Sentinels weren't invented yet, it would take years before they were mass produced afterward and mutant kind was hidden from the public. Magneto's intimidation is exactly what he relies on and what hurts him, despite all the process he makes he's still a mass murdering terrorist at heart.

Edit: There's vastly more to creating a bridge between mutant kind and humanity than intimidation. That stereotypes mutants to the public as being only caring about domination rather than assimilation or living peacefully and making magneto a figurehead shows that mutants don't care that much about humans he's murdered or the distraction he's caused to human nations. Intimidation feeds right into the anti mutant propaganda for obvious reasons. When all you're offering is a stick people will not believe you will ever give them a carrot.

Yeah Magneto's been KraKKed waaaay before KraKoa lol

You say that like it's good. Most world leaders in our world don't personally commit terrorist acts, Magneto has done this all his life. Both alone and in groups.

THAT would have meant that the mutants are basically the same as the Inhumans, and are just the result of outside forces messing with human genetics for their own ends.
Uh yeah the Celestials mucked around in the genetics of early man turning them into... reg humans, Mutant, deviant
inhuman etc.
Hell he definitely made the right choice. Genosha had turned his people into slaves, completely took their agency+ the legacy virus was around only targeting Mutants. what else could he have done?

Now mutants are the same controversial nation state as Inhumans, who view outsiders as threats and keep to themselves. How about not making himself its leader and retire? There's more options available than what Magneto does and nothing.