How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Zelena]

What were some of these terrible things the Xmen are supposed to have done to prevent...X terrible futures??



Errr Wasnt that the whole plot of the Inhumans/Avengers+the NuHuman Ulysses??
Xmen should follow 'principles' not oracles....but thne why are some clamoring for the return of Destiny and other precogs to KraKoa? l

Because they are mutants too? And if they accept Apocalypse and his likes, why not the precogs?

If a oracle tells you to do something horrible for the greater good, will you do it? In a way, precognition is a god-like power that places a terrible burden on anyone's shoulders.

Heroes are models that shows that things that we consider impossible are possible, it is liberating.
Following oracles is being precogs' puppets.

[Kisinith]

That's the laziest thing that X-men keep doing over and over again. "We have to do X terrible thing or else BAD FUTURE!" Plus Cable has been wrong before. Hell, his entire reason for existing is to prevent the Apocalypse bad futures, and now he's working for him!

This way of thinking makes the X-men un-heroic: heroes follow principles not oracles.

It's like these antique stories: eventually, you end with the future you fight hard to avoid.

Because they are mutants too? And if they accept Apocalypse and his likes, why not the precogs?

If a oracle tells you to do something horrible for the greater good, will you do it? In a way, precognition is a god-like power that places a terrible burden on anyone's shoulders.

Heroes are models that shows that things that we consider impossible are possible, it is liberating.
Following oracles is being precogs' puppets.

What horrible thing did they do?

[Kisinith]

whoops wrong thread

[Zelena]

What horrible thing did they do?

I remember a Betsy rather upset at the idea of killing a child.
I don't remember the whole narrative but if people feel forced to act in a way that contradicts their nature for fear of the future… it demolishes them.

[Kisinith]

I remember a Betsy rather upset at the idea of killing a child.
I don't remember the whole narrative but if people feel forced to act in a way that contradicts their nature for fear of the future… it demolishes them.

Pretty sure that was in Uncanny X-Force by Remender, "The Apocalypse Solution". That was a team put together to stop a reborn Apocalypse and clan Akkaba. At the end all of them couldn't kill the child except for Fantomex. Been a long time since I wasn't a huge fan of Remender but I don't recall that being about time travel and oracles so much as stopping Apocalypse who was reborn/cloned as a child and was being groomed to resume his prior actions by clan Akkaba.

[pkingdom]

Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.

[Kisinith]

Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.

They didn't go to war with the Avengers, it was the other way around. The Avengers showed up on Utopia, in force, and demanded they turn over a mutant teenager (Hope) or else. Something Cable had expressly told Cyclops would result in the destruction of all life on Earth. The Avengers then continued to attack up to and including assaulting kids who were playing video games in order to kidnap Hope. The P5 did not go after the Avengers until after they were repeatedly attacked.

Now I've no desire to go down the rabbit hole on debating the steaming hot mess that was AvX. I'm fully willing to admit that everyone involved took turns juggling the idiot ball and were repeatedly bludgeoned with plot induced stupidity beat stick but, the Avengers were unambiguously the aggressors and in the end their grand plan for stopping the Phoenix was doing what the X-Men had wanted from the very beginning.

[Sandy Hausler]

Yeah Genosha was the point with more mutants in the recent history and they were 16 million. And right now they havent ressurected all the mutants from genosha so they should be between the one million post decimation and the 16 million from genosha

I don't understand. How did they go from 198 to one million?

And the mutants from Genosha were killed by the Sentinels. They did not just lose their powers. They are not coming back.

[BroHomo]

I remember a Betsy rather upset at the idea of killing a child.
I don't remember the whole narrative but if people feel forced to act in a way that contradicts their nature for fear of the future… it demolishes them.

Huh? why speak on a narrative if you don't even remember what it was even about...least of all use it as a basis for an argument.

Pretty sure that was in Uncanny X-Force by Remender, "The Apocalypse Solution". That was a team put together to stop a reborn Apocalypse and clan Akkaba. At the end all of them couldn't kill the child except for Fantomex. Been a long time since I wasn't a huge fan of Remender but I don't recall that being about time travel and oracles so much as stopping Apocalypse who was reborn/cloned as a child and was being groomed to resume his prior actions by clan Akkaba.

Fantomex shoots the kid but its eventually revealed that Fantomex cloned the kid and was having, some Leave it to Beaver older couple in a Weapon Plus environment. Buuuuut for all the Apocalypse is pure evil noooow its become "complicated?" lol

Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.

I guess you can look at every superhero confrontation as a means to prevent a bad future. If that's what you focus on. Thats on you

I don't understand. How did they go from 198 to one million?

And the mutants from Genosha were killed by the Sentinels. They did not just lose their powers. They are not coming back.

Well.....when acter AvX and the P5 the Phoenix did what it came to do and bunch mutants manifested mutant powers. Nothing about the resurrection protocols suggests theres different steps involved depending On how the mutant died.

[Killerbee911]

I don't understand. How did they go from 198 to one million?
.

The phoenix stuff kickstarted mutant kind again and the mothervine stuff also brought back a bunch and gave us new ones. Mutants multiply like rabbits.

[Sandy Hausler]

The phoenix stuff kickstarted mutant kind again and the mothervine stuff also brought back a bunch and gave us new ones. Mutants multiply like rabbits.

Evidently.

While the Scarlet Witch No-More-Mutants bit was a little much, I always thought that keeping mutants to a small number was a good idea. I never understood how millions of mutants existed in Genosha in the first place.

[Electricmastro]

Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.

Yeah, I suppose Moira’s mood has formed the basis of the “cynical, we’ll never win unless we’re drastic” sort of feeling I’ve been having with Hickman’s X-Men, which is mainly set on a Truman Show-esque island filled with what some may say are “cultist crusaders” that others wouldn’t say need to be around if the writers from decades before hadn’t of been writing many of the humans, especially leaders, acting as if Magneto was still wanting to be a human slaveowner like how he was in 1964. It’s at this point that while I do check on the modern stuff occasionally, I’ve been led to mainly focus on the older, pre-90s stuff, which was also social/politically-driven, but had a more optimistic, all-encompassing take that I feel is more favorable.

[MechaJeanix]

Evidently.

While the Scarlet Witch No-More-Mutants bit was a little much, I always thought that keeping mutants to a small number was a good idea. I never understood how millions of mutants existed in Genosha in the first place.

Yeah, and it was before the mutant baby boom, right? I guess there were more mutants than we realized. I do think after Genosha and after "No More Mutants" the mutants became too small of a minority. Like JDW said they became so small that most people wouldn't even interact with one. I think finding the right balance is important. They are a minority but they still have enough members to create a small nation.

[pkingdom]

When you up the number of mutants to something like the 16 million on Genosha, it becomes ludicrous that we aren't seeing at least a few with even moderately useful powers. Like, the only people with abilities capable of accomplishing anything are this tiny mostly American group? Not one person on Genosha had anything similar to Magneto capable of putting up a fight? The same can be applied to Krakoa, or even Utopia.

[BroHomo]

When you up the number of mutants to something like the 16 million on Genosha, it becomes ludicrous that we aren't seeing at least a few with even moderately useful powers. Like, the only people with abilities capable of accomplishing anything are this tiny mostly American group? Not one person on Genosha had anything similar to Magneto capable of putting up a fight? The same can be applied to Krakoa, or even Utopia.

Krakoa is still around tho.....
But yeah most of the folks on Genosha were just tryna live their best life...work... school...raisie kids. They weren't training for some war. Then This thing came outta the sky...


These sentinels were a lot bigger and had more firepower than regular sentinels

The ones with useful powers were totally caught by surprise going through their routine as there wasn't an incident or escalation of hostilities that would give any reason to be on alert. Watching people get evaporated would probby cause even the experienced warrior to hesitate or make a mistake outta ffear