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  1. #496
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    What were some of these terrible things the Xmen are supposed to have done to prevent...X terrible futures??



    Errr Wasnt that the whole plot of the Inhumans/Avengers+the NuHuman Ulysses??
    Xmen should follow 'principles' not oracles....but thne why are some clamoring for the return of Destiny and other precogs to KraKoa? l
    Because they are mutants too? And if they accept Apocalypse and his likes, why not the precogs?

    If a oracle tells you to do something horrible for the greater good, will you do it? In a way, precognition is a god-like power that places a terrible burden on anyone's shoulders.

    Heroes are models that shows that things that we consider impossible are possible, it is liberating.
    Following oracles is being precogs' puppets.
    "… something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  2. #497
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That's the laziest thing that X-men keep doing over and over again. "We have to do X terrible thing or else BAD FUTURE!" Plus Cable has been wrong before. Hell, his entire reason for existing is to prevent the Apocalypse bad futures, and now he's working for him!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    This way of thinking makes the X-men un-heroic: heroes follow principles not oracles.

    It's like these antique stories: eventually, you end with the future you fight hard to avoid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Because they are mutants too? And if they accept Apocalypse and his likes, why not the precogs?

    If a oracle tells you to do something horrible for the greater good, will you do it? In a way, precognition is a god-like power that places a terrible burden on anyone's shoulders.

    Heroes are models that shows that things that we consider impossible are possible, it is liberating.
    Following oracles is being precogs' puppets.
    What horrible thing did they do?

  3. #498
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    whoops wrong thread

  4. #499
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    What horrible thing did they do?
    I remember a Betsy rather upset at the idea of killing a child.
    I don't remember the whole narrative but if people feel forced to act in a way that contradicts their nature for fear of the future… it demolishes them.
    "… something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  5. #500
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I remember a Betsy rather upset at the idea of killing a child.
    I don't remember the whole narrative but if people feel forced to act in a way that contradicts their nature for fear of the future… it demolishes them.
    Pretty sure that was in Uncanny X-Force by Remender, "The Apocalypse Solution". That was a team put together to stop a reborn Apocalypse and clan Akkaba. At the end all of them couldn't kill the child except for Fantomex. Been a long time since I wasn't a huge fan of Remender but I don't recall that being about time travel and oracles so much as stopping Apocalypse who was reborn/cloned as a child and was being groomed to resume his prior actions by clan Akkaba.

  6. #501
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

    But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.

  7. #502
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

    But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.
    They didn't go to war with the Avengers, it was the other way around. The Avengers showed up on Utopia, in force, and demanded they turn over a mutant teenager (Hope) or else. Something Cable had expressly told Cyclops would result in the destruction of all life on Earth. The Avengers then continued to attack up to and including assaulting kids who were playing video games in order to kidnap Hope. The P5 did not go after the Avengers until after they were repeatedly attacked.

    Now I've no desire to go down the rabbit hole on debating the steaming hot mess that was AvX. I'm fully willing to admit that everyone involved took turns juggling the idiot ball and were repeatedly bludgeoned with plot induced stupidity beat stick but, the Avengers were unambiguously the aggressors and in the end their grand plan for stopping the Phoenix was doing what the X-Men had wanted from the very beginning.
    Last edited by Kisinith; 01-29-2020 at 06:59 PM.

  8. #503

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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    Yeah Genosha was the point with more mutants in the recent history and they were 16 million. And right now they havent ressurected all the mutants from genosha so they should be between the one million post decimation and the 16 million from genosha
    I don't understand. How did they go from 198 to one million?

    And the mutants from Genosha were killed by the Sentinels. They did not just lose their powers. They are not coming back.
    Sandy Hausler
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  9. #504
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I remember a Betsy rather upset at the idea of killing a child.
    I don't remember the whole narrative but if people feel forced to act in a way that contradicts their nature for fear of the future… it demolishes them.
    Huh? why speak on a narrative if you don't even remember what it was even about...least of all use it as a basis for an argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Pretty sure that was in Uncanny X-Force by Remender, "The Apocalypse Solution". That was a team put together to stop a reborn Apocalypse and clan Akkaba. At the end all of them couldn't kill the child except for Fantomex. Been a long time since I wasn't a huge fan of Remender but I don't recall that being about time travel and oracles so much as stopping Apocalypse who was reborn/cloned as a child and was being groomed to resume his prior actions by clan Akkaba.
    Fantomex shoots the kid but its eventually revealed that Fantomex cloned the kid and was having, some Leave it to Beaver older couple in a Weapon Plus environment. Buuuuut for all the Apocalypse is pure evil noooow its become "complicated?" lol
    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Going to war with the Avengers for starters.

    But I may have overreached, I admit. But there have been so, so many X plots about preventing bad futures that I'm sick of it. And now its really baked into everything they do because of Moira.
    I guess you can look at every superhero confrontation as a means to prevent a bad future. If that's what you focus on. Thats on you
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy Hausler View Post
    I don't understand. How did they go from 198 to one million?

    And the mutants from Genosha were killed by the Sentinels. They did not just lose their powers. They are not coming back.
    Well.....when acter AvX and the P5 the Phoenix did what it came to do and bunch mutants manifested mutant powers. Nothing about the resurrection protocols suggests theres different steps involved depending On how the mutant died.
    GrindrStone(D)

  10. #505
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy Hausler View Post
    I don't understand. How did they go from 198 to one million?
    .
    The phoenix stuff kickstarted mutant kind again and the mothervine stuff also brought back a bunch and gave us new ones. Mutants multiply like rabbits.

  11. #506

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    The phoenix stuff kickstarted mutant kind again and the mothervine stuff also brought back a bunch and gave us new ones. Mutants multiply like rabbits.

    Evidently.

    While the Scarlet Witch No-More-Mutants bit was a little much, I always thought that keeping mutants to a small number was a good idea. I never understood how millions of mutants existed in Genosha in the first place.
    Sandy Hausler
    DC Boards Moderator (along with The Darknight Detective (who has a much cooler name that I do))
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