How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[jwatson]

Because whenever we do, people go "why are we supposed to sympathize with the racists? they should be cartoons!"

i think that's an unfair attitude to have. I do think there are some humans who have legitimate reasons to be afraid, maybe their son or daughter was directly killed by a mutant who manifested powers. I don't think it's all black and white. Just like i don't think everyone who dislikes people of color are racists, there are true racists and then there are those who don't know any better because of their upbringing and what was instilled on them. The doctor in this story seemed to know better and had never been hurt by a mutant as far as we know so there was just no sympathy there. Simply being human doesn't make one unsympathetic it's all about the context.

[jwatson]

Seems to be a reminder that despite all the awful things humans have done to the mutants, and the bad methods that were used, there are humans that are still driven by human desires in the first place (aka a desire to build a better world, to have children, to love, etc.), not necessarily by outside monstrously demonic influences or something along those lines like Mephisto.

But aren't mutants driven by human desires as well. For me, i don't care what i'm being told by the story in regard to whatever. Mutants are just a new race of humans. Instead of pigment they differ because they have powers.

[LordUltimus]

i think that's an unfair attitude to have. I do think there are some humans who have legitimate reasons to be afraid, maybe their son or daughter was directly killed by a mutant who manifested powers. I don't think it's all black and white. Just like i don't think everyone who dislikes people of color are racists, there are true racists and then there are those who don't know any better because of their upbringing and what was instilled on them. The doctor in this story seemed to know better and had never been hurt by a mutant as far as we know so there was just no sympathy there. Simply being human doesn't make one unsympathetic it's all about the context.

Well, feel free to make a thread, I guess, I'd be happy to see it.

[jwatson]

I mean, it doesn't make people relate to them, and shouldn't make people sympathize with them. It's like asking what kind of ice cream Stalin preferred.

It really doesn't. If he wanted us to sympathize with humans show a mutant manifest outside the doctors school that killed their only child and thats why she doesn't want to have more. But her husband wanted to start a family and live a life and at the end i actually had more sympathy for the husband than her. I thought, was he only in this because he loved his wife so much, because she wouldn't give him a life of peace or anything else because her internal hate was just that strong. He was willing to kill himself so she could feel safe. But that only makes me dislike her more. Did she taint a good man? I mean of course i have to reach my brain to get there but if i'm looking for sympathy in what i feel is an unsympathetic moment it would be that. Not sympathy for the fear of the unknown. Because then who is the next target, what will stop her fear. Will she not feel safe until she is all that's left.

[pkingdom]

Scenes like that are meant to show that the faceless people in these labs and junk are still actual people with their own lives, and not faceless mooks to be ripped apart by the heroes. Like there was a novel about all the civilians working on board the Death Star waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back before Disney bought Star Wars. Now, whether that makes those people sympathetic or the like is a different matter. They're still trying to build a genocide robot that's always turned on all of humanity, not just mutants anyway. I think they had some throw away line about being afraid that turning it on early would make it go crazy and full genocide everybody, but given the track record of these things its not much a defense. "Oh, we only wanted to kill all MUTANTS, not EVERYBODY! We're sorry!" Nah.

[Electricmastro]

i think that's an unfair attitude to have. I do think there are some humans who have legitimate reasons to be afraid, maybe their son or daughter was directly killed by a mutant who manifested powers. I don't think it's all black and white. Just like i don't think everyone who dislikes people of color are racists, there are true racists and then there are those who don't know any better because of their upbringing and what was instilled on them. The doctor in this story seemed to know better and had never been hurt by a mutant as far as we know so there was just no sympathy there. Simply being human doesn't make one unsympathetic it's all about the context.

I once heard that human beings aren't born with prejudice, but are made for them, by someone who wants *something*. I've come to learn that even the most prejudiced leaders in history had so little humanity to show, that they don't even care about their prejudice-driven followers, only caring about them as far as they're able to benefit towards their own selfishly nasty gains, or are so demented, twisted, and warped, that they foolishly assume the objectively wrong to be objectively right. I suspect it can be easy to get enough of a large following if you just know how to scare your would-be followers in all the specific places.

In regards to the Marvel universe, at least as far as I've seen, I get the impression there's a difference between, at least from a certain point of view:

A. "I hate mutants because they're mutants."

B. "I hate mutants because I strongly associate mutants to be part of some conspiracy to dominate, enslave, or even destroy the world."

If prejudice can be compared to a fire, then I suppose it can be accurate to say that conspiracies, propaganda, or just a desire to blame one's problems on someone else could very much fuel that fire, and could turn into a fire that gets so big and deadly that it destroys everything in its path, leaving a trail of suffering. It's something that I think that could apply to our world, as well as Earth-616, however inconsistent the writing for it has been handled.

Also, I'm sure there's quite a list to be made of Marvel heroes that are still widely sympathized with and adored to this day despite having done all sorts of awful things.

[Agent Z]

Statistically speaking, more people have died from gun accidents than from deliberate murder or shootings.

How many people have died because a mutant couldn't control their powers?

"Where's the third option?"

[Agent Z]

Banner/The Hulk, currently an active terrorist openly threatening predetermined targets with Hulk rampages and a potential universe-killing threat, has in past and will surely in future be given more leeway than humankind gave mutantdom when their numbers were below 200 and all they wanted to do was live in peace. That says it all IMO.

We're talking about the same guy who regularly has the U.S. military hunting him and was once shot into outer space?

[PsychoEFrost]

We're talking about the same guy who regularly has the U.S. military hunting him and was once shot into outer space?

Also the same guy who can and will be returned to the Avengers and protected from any and all consequences whenever he feels like it. Meanwhile, the Avengers storm X-schools and demand to arrest mutant children in matters they have zero experience in.

[pkingdom]

Lol, seriously. That page in Marvel 1000 annoyed me, just because I'm thinking "Kitty, there's such a thing called tact. And timing. He's literally still in the hospital after killing everyone he knows and loves. Maybe right this second isn't the best time to be all "Want to be a child soldier with us?"

[PsychoEFrost]

Lol, seriously. That page in Marvel 1000 annoyed me, just because I'm thinking "Kitty, there's such a thing called tact. And timing. He's literally still in the hospital after killing everyone he knows and loves. Maybe right this second isn't the best time to be all "Want to be a child soldier with us?"

That was likely the best way to ensure he doesn't get dragged to the MRD Concentration Camps the instant he gets out.

[Agent Z]

Also the same guy who can and will be returned to the Avengers and protected from any and all consequences whenever he feels like it. Meanwhile, the Avengers storm X-schools and demand to arrest mutant children in matters they have zero experience in.

And how many mutants have avoided jail time despite their many, many crimes?

I mean, I've criticized the Hulk for his rampages but he's still more heroic than Sabertooth, Magneto, Mystique and even Emma Frost.

[PsychoEFrost]

And how many mutants have avoided jail time despite their many, many crimes?

I mean, I've criticized the Hulk for his rampages but he's still more heroic than Sabertooth, Magneto, Mystique and even Emma Frost.

None? Scott, Alex, Ilyana and Emma were jailed. Xavier and Beast are members of the Illuminati and therefore cannot be jailed. Wolverine is an Avenger, and therefore cannot be jailed. Magneto was imprisoned for a time. The only X-Man that has avoided jail time for his crimes is probably Gambit. Rogue if you want to get real petty.

And Hulk being more "heroic" than Frost isn't really true. They're both morally grey at best, similar to Wolverine. Hulk's death count is significantly higher.

[Killerbee911]

And how many mutants have avoided jail time despite their many, many crimes?

I mean, I've criticized the Hulk for his rampages but he's still more heroic than Sabertooth, Magneto, Mystique and even Emma Frost.

Hulk is also as "villainous" if not more than people listed.

[Agent Z]

Hulk is also as "villainous" if not more than people listed.

You're joking right?

None? Scott, Alex, Ilyana and Emma were jailed. Xavier and Beast are members of the Illuminati and therefore cannot be jailed. Wolverine is an Avenger, and therefore cannot be jailed. Magneto was imprisoned for a time. The only X-Man that has avoided jail time for his crimes is probably Gambit. Rogue if you want to get real petty.

Magneto should have been imprisoned a thousand times over given his numerous actions. Scott, Alex, Ilyana and Emma were jailed then escaped and are now running free as if nothing happened. Ironically they were jailed for things they did under a corruptive influence but there's plenty Emma has in her ledger that should have her sitting in a cell for the remainder of her days.

And Hulk being more "heroic" than Frost isn't really true. They're both morally grey at best, similar to Wolverine. Hulk's death count is significantly higher.

The people who died when Emma and the Hellfire Club tampered with the Phoenix blows anything Hulk did out of the water.