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  1. #616
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I just told you how bigots would exploit the few "bad apples," and unlike the real world the evil mutants Marvel has would be much quicker to radicalise people because magneto is far from the only person who does it. Large groups do this, and there are dozens of very powerful mutants like him who kill people because they're mass murdering psychopaths. It's much easier to make propaganda when you don't have make half of it out of thin air, Magneto's juts the beginning of the dangerous mutants out there. Magneto's been intrinsically linked with mutant kind with numerous nations, so he'd built in anti mutant propoganda from the start ."
    And I'm telling you. The people who would believe rherotic like that. Already have the seeds of ignorance and it wouldn't make a difference if every mutant was saint. Prejudice and racism don't rely on facts or rational.
    So no it's Magnetos fault there's anti Mutant hysteria lol Lord! I mean white Dudes are predominantly mass shooters wouldn't that anti human propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Genosha was absolutely used as an allegory for apartheid, but got actual apartheid wrong. Apartheid South Africa had the tiny minority of wealthy white people exploiting and oppressing the majority black population. Genosha had the
    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    majority population of regular humans exploiting and enslaving the tiny mutant minority. To quote Wikipedia as well, "Apartheid was characterised by an authoritarian political culture based on baasskap (or white supremacy), which ensured that South Africa was dominated politically, socially, and economically by the nation's minority white population."
    What do think apartheid refers to....what is it separating ? the minority from the majority or White and blacks It makes no difference who waste majority who was the minority

    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    And Apocalypse and Selene conquered and enslaved civilizations. Not all of humanity, though Apocalypse and Magneto absolutely tried. Selene is too lazy.
    Apocalypse .. i honestly don't remember a lot about his past but the civilization i only recall him conquering is when Ozymandis and his sister humiliated Apocalypse and he took revenge took overt Ozys kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Not the context Magneto was saying, his statement was that since he hasn't taken territory of humanity he wasn't at war with them when that's untrue. Terrorist organisations do have wars with nation states, as shown with ISIS and Al Quaeda. How the oppressed fight back matters, Magneto is a figure that's not supposed to be emulated - it's like idolising Darth Vader. ."
    What? I'm what way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    When Magneto began his terror campaigns Sentinels weren't invented yet, it would take years before they were mass produced afterward and mutant kind was hidden from the public. Magneto's intimidation is exactly what he relies on and what hurts him, ."
    SighYes they were as Trasks mutant son showed a vision of Sentinels battling mutsants

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    "despite all the process he makes he's still a mass murdering terrorist at heart."
    Whaaaaaaat? lol dude where is the evidence? When he took over Genosha did he start wiping out humans? Some even stay as members of his cabinet

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    You say that like it's good. Most world leaders in our world don't personally commit terrorist acts, Magneto has done this all his life. Both alone and in groups.
    Well.i was referring to how he was already fighting for a mutant Homeland since the jump. No one said anything about terrorist acts...Hmmm ask the Japanese Americans during WWII forced v into camps was a terrorist act.Or Reagan's silence during the EPIDEMIC, 80s War on Drugs, Different policies aimed at specific people.
    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Apartheid is an incredibly specific term for a very specific situation in history. Genosha was slavery, but not apartheid. The absolute power of the minority population was a key part of apartheid.
    Dude it comes from the Black South Africans word for Apart. Well there were more of Genosha mutates than reg ones lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They would hardly need to create a smokescreen given the harm mutants, even the ones among the X-Men have caused. Politicians could be afraid a telepath could mind control a political them into spouting racist rhetoric they don't actually believe in to ruin their reputation and career, forcibly out a gay politician before they're ready to come out or erase everything they know about how to do their job in the first place. In a meeting with Emma Frost, she is not the one who has anything to worry about, the human does because they have no way to protect themselves from a telepath whose personal history has shown she cares nothing for boundaries and ethics (just ask Storm or Firestar).
    Why that be a problem... Politicians did all this in past 6 months lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    So, there is this strange coalition between 'good people' and 'bad people' among mutants.
    My main problem is that, realistically, it should raise more eyebrows than it does. And it shouldn't last, too.
    it should raise the question as why u the a person is so quick to compartmentalize people
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    And I'm telling you. The people who would believe rherotic like that. Already have the seeds of ignorance and it wouldn't make a difference if every mutant was saint. Prejudice and racism don't rely on facts or rational.
    That's not my argument, your arguing with a straw man.

    So no it's Magnetos fault there's anti Mutant hysteria lol Lord! I mean white Dudes are predominantly mass shooters wouldn't that anti human propaganda?
    Please don't warp my argument into things I haven't said. Its Magneto's fault for the blood he's spilt in his life time, which is dismissed too casually. To us he's simply a picture on a piece of paper, in the Marvel universe he's got a large body count and a decades long streak of anti human terrorism. Put yourself in their shoes, if Magneto showed up in our world how do you think he's react to us?

    Apocalypse .. i honestly don't remember a lot about his past but the civilization i only recall him conquering is when Ozymandis and his sister humiliated Apocalypse and he took revenge took overt Ozys kingdom
    Whenever Apocalypse past is bought it it's never good for the people around him, there's a reason when he bought up that he ended the Bronze Age people took him at his word.

    What? I'm what way?
    Magneto's a mass murdering psychopath, he proudly intimidates people weaker than him into compliance and has shown no remorse over his actions. Death is how he communicates with the world, and if you're an obstacle between what he wants he isn't shy about using lethal force to get what he wants. He's a super-villain, one of the first. He's got an iconic, intimidating costume, as well!

    SighYes they were as Trasks mutant son showed a vision of Sentinels battling mutsants
    In Stan Lee's original run Magneto appears first in #1, Trask appears with the Sentinels in #14, who are privately run and immediately try to enslave humanity, they're not mentioned again until much later on.

    Whaaaaaaat? lol dude where is the evidence? When he took over Genosha did he start wiping out humans? Some even stay as members of his cabinet
    Post Krakoa he's used as an intimidation method, on multiple occasions,


    Well.i was referring to how he was already fighting for a mutant Homeland since the jump. No one said anything about terrorist acts...Hmmm ask the Japanese Americans during WWII forced v into camps was a terrorist act.Or Reagan's silence during the EPIDEMIC, 80s War on Drugs, Different policies aimed at specific people.
    Moving the goal posts. This is the post I was responding to about Magneto's statement about war. None of that was personally done by those presidents, Magneto's done tonnes of mass murder and property destruction by his own hands. He has no need for weapons, he is the weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    The goal of oppressors isn’t to “corrupt” the oppressed. The goal is to break and devalue the lives of the oppressed.

    None of that was personally done by those presidents, Magneto's done tonnes of mass murder and property destruction by his own hands. He has no need for weapons, he is the weapon. You need to reread your 1960's X-men.

    I bought up Magneto's terrorists acts because that's a defining feature for him from day one. He doesn't get to erase that from history in Marvel and it's frustrating when the X-men do it. Other traits are his megalomania and god complex.

  3. #618
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    it should raise the question as why u the a person is so quick to compartmentalize people
    Of course, it is a simplification to separate the people in good and bad.
    It's a reading grid, which has some merits. What do the people want to know? If somebody will be good or bad for them… In doubt, there is the law and its arm.
    For the super-powered beings known as the super-heroes, as Alan2099 said it better than I could, there is no doubt: they are on the side of the law.
    For the mutants… well, even myself, except of a few, I don't know them. (And now, even the ones I knew, I don't recognise them anymore.)

    I think Xavier's old dream's main flaw is there… For his plan to work, he needed that the mutants were good and were like the regular super-heroes. Like stated in this dialogue between Xavier and Moira in Deadly Genesis:

    — These children, all mutant children, are the future, Moira… and if I can help mold them into good people… Good examples for the ones that come after them…
    — And if they don't want to be examples? What if they just to have normal lives? To be ordinary.
    — They don't have that luxury… and living in denial won't help them or the world.
    — But the X-men, they'll help the world, will they?
    — Yes… they will, and they'll help it to understand mutantkind, too.

  4. #619
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    And I'm telling you. The people who would believe rherotic like that. Already have the seeds of ignorance and it wouldn't make a difference if every mutant was saint. Prejudice and racism don't rely on facts or rational.
    So no it's Magnetos fault there's anti Mutant hysteria lol Lord! I mean white Dudes are predominantly mass shooters wouldn't that anti human propaganda?
    Magneto is probably the worst thing to ever happen to human/mutant relationships.

    The very first MAJOR incident the public has even known about mutants was Magento showing up, attacking a military base and ranting about how he was a mutant and mutants must rule over inferior humans.

    Up until then, mutants were like bigfoot. Maybe there's some slight circumstantial evidence and a few unreliable witnesses, but nobody could prove anything. Now imagine if one day Bigfoot crashed into a school and started throwing children around while screaming how Bigfoots everywhere were better than people. That would give the public a pretty awful opinion of bigfoots, wouldn't it?

  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Magneto is probably the worst thing to ever happen to human/mutant relationships.

    The very first MAJOR incident the public has even known about mutants was Magento showing up, attacking a military base and ranting about how he was a mutant and mutants must rule over inferior humans.

    Up until then, mutants were like bigfoot. Maybe there's some slight circumstantial evidence and a few unreliable witnesses, but nobody could prove anything. Now imagine if one day Bigfoot crashed into a school and started throwing children around while screaming how Bigfoots everywhere were better than people. That would give the public a pretty awful opinion of bigfoots, wouldn't it?
    If those children were black-some folks would have a high opinion of them.

    How many white guys have turned schools, stores and churches into shooting galleries? Yet have garner compassion? And have excuse from mental illness to bad home life.

    Black boy walking home from the store at night, gets followed, defends himself and gets killed. Every black boy is now viewed as a threat to national society.

    And as we have seen with this virus violence towards Asians here for something done in another location.

    I sure Magneto does something in today's climate-Obama would get blamed.

  6. #621
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Apartheid is an incredibly specific term for a very specific situation in history. Genosha was slavery, but not apartheid. The absolute power of the minority population was a key part of apartheid.
    uhmm I think the UN disagrees with you. a simple misunderstanding but don't worry I gotcha boo. apartied is recognized internationally as a crime against humanity. while there are more recent internationally agreed upon definitions that echo the same sentiment, I'm partial to how it's defined as stated in the International Convention for the Suppression and Punishment for the Crime of Apartheid from 1973

    "For the purpose of the present Convention, the term "the crime of apartheid", which shall
    include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practised in
    southern Africa
    , shall apply to the following inhuman acts committed for the purpose of
    establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial
    group of persons and systematically oppressing them:
    (a) Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of
    person:
    (i) By murder of members of a racial group or groups;
    (ii) By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental
    harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to
    cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;
    (iii) By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;

    (b) Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its
    or their physical destruction in whole or in part;

    (c) Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or
    groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and
    the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or
    groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights
    and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognized trade unions, the right to
    education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to
    freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the
    right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;

    d) Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial
    lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or
    groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the
    expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;

    (e) Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by
    submitting them to forced labour;

    (f) Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and
    freedoms, because they oppose apartheid."

    link to the document.
    SIGNAL/Duke Thomas is the Midnight Sun of Gotham(respect thread)

    Martin to Malcolm: militant Professor X is kinda the wave right now

    DC: Batman & The Outsiders, Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, The Flash, Justice League Odyssey, Far Sector, Red Hood/Outlaws

    Marvel: Immortal Hulk, Miles Morales: Spiderman, Black Panther, X-Men (2019), Venom, X-Force, Hellions, Giant Sized X-Men

    Anticipated titles: anything from Milestone*, X of Swords

  7. #622
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    If those children were black-some folks would have a high opinion of them.

    How many white guys have turned schools, stores and churches into shooting galleries? Yet have garner compassion? And have excuse from mental illness to bad home life.

    Black boy walking home from the store at night, gets followed, defends himself and gets killed. Every black boy is now viewed as a threat to national society.

    And as we have seen with this virus violence towards Asians here for something done in another location.

    I sure Magneto does something in today's climate-Obama would get blamed.
    You mean like with Rodney King?

  8. #623
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    You mean like with Rodney King?
    The same Rodney King who said, during the 1992 riots:

    “I just want to say – you know – can we all get along? Can we, can we get along? Can we stop making it horrible for the older people and the kids?“ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

    I heard his daughter was helping build bridges between African-Americans and the police as well. When an injustice happens, either one chooses to use violence to solve it, or they don’t. There’s definitely a good time and a good place for talking just as much as there’s a good time and a good place for violence, and I’m sure that’s something that can, when writers choose to do so and not make out events worse than in George Orwell’s 1984, realistically happen with the X-Men.

  9. #624
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    You mean like with Rodney King?
    In regards to what?
    GrindrStone(D)

  10. #625
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    In regards to what?
    Maybe that nonmutant superhumans can cause as much death, destruction, and devastation as they want, but they're somehow never uniformly and wholly condemned the way mutants are. The explanation for anti-mutant fear, paranoia, and hatred that "anybody can be a mutant" makes sense on its face, until one realizes that most nonmutant supervillains are also more than capable of blending in with a crowd of normal people, should they desire or need to do so. Without the usual garish costumes, how are you gonna tell the difference between someone who's a supervillain and someone who's otherwise a regular citizen with mutant powers having an off day?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #626
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I think the fear of mutants comes from their origin, I kind of see it like secret invasion, metahumans are a result of either an accident, technology or cosmic energy, those things happen on the marvel universe but not to everyone and the people that get those powers are very small in number, exceptions to the rule. Mutants on the other hand are born from humans, they get powers at their birth, they can have a practical but non-offensive power or be very powerful and most of them don`t even know they are mutants until they hit puberty, so this mystery around them and the number of times those births happen is what fuels part of the fear add to it the fear of being replaced by them as Morrison proposed and Hickman seems to be following this part of the plot and you have a more hostile response than you will get otherwise hence the search for the cure of the problem of mutants. Of course this doesn`t explain how they know a meta human from a mutant unless they are known as one or the other.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-09-2020 at 08:53 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  12. #627
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    The same Rodney King who said, during the 1992 riots:

    “I just want to say – you know – can we all get along? Can we, can we get along? Can we stop making it horrible for the older people and the kids?“ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

    I heard his daughter was helping build bridges between African-Americans and the police as well. When an injustice happens, either one chooses to use violence to solve it, or they don’t. There’s definitely a good time and a good place for talking just as much as there’s a good time and a good place for violence, and I’m sure that’s something that can, when writers choose to do so and not make out events worse than in George Orwell’s 1984, realistically happen with the X-Men.
    One of the more interesting discussion of the riots that I saw is that a lot of people used it as an excuse to commit crimes. They were just bandwagoning and not trying to accomplish a productive goal. Pretty much ALL of the looting and property damage had absolutely nothing to do with anything. People felt like being ---- to others and committed crimes because they thought they could get away with it.

    that's totally a thing in the comics too. Either from the side of the oppressor or the oppressed, people will take a legit reason to be angry and use it as an excuse to do something that's a heinous crime.

    Thing is though... It's usually not really about race. Racial tension is an excuse most of the time.

    This is why I mentioned those riots. White on black violence? RAGE!!! Who suffers most? Chinese and Mexican immigrants(I'm including people descended from immigrants too). Why? because the people looting, arsoning, and pillaging didn't have any idea WHOSE stuff they were destroying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Maybe that nonmutant superhumans can cause as much death, destruction, and devastation as they want, but they're somehow never uniformly and wholly condemned the way mutants are. The explanation for anti-mutant fear, paranoia, and hatred that "anybody can be a mutant" makes sense on its face, until one realizes that most nonmutant supervillains are also more than capable of blending in with a crowd of normal people, should they desire or need to do so. Without the usual garish costumes, how are you gonna tell the difference between someone who's a supervillain and someone who's otherwise a regular citizen with mutant powers having an off day?
    Yeah this is a big part of it. "Mutants are dangerous!!" So are Gamma Mutates, Inhumans, cyborgs, and an entire laundry list of other origins. Most of whom can wander about daily life without anyone noticing. Spiderman's suit is really just a handful of gadgets. He's almost as dangerous without it. Bruce Banner? good luck picking him out of a crowd without a Gamma detector. Asgardians? when they dress like normal people they LOOK like normal people. Guess who this is:

    If you guess Hela, you're right, but realistically, most people would just see a woman with weird fashion sense and not a goddess capable of demolishing a city with her bare hands in minutes.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 04-09-2020 at 09:36 PM.

  13. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Asgardians? when they dress like normal people they LOOK like normal people. Guess who this is:

    If you guess Hela, you're right, but realistically, most people would just see a woman with weird fashion sense and not a goddess capable of demolishing a city with her bare hands in minutes.
    Mutants are fine when they blend in, it's when they use their powers in public that they get backlash. Marvel's been wishy washy about this applying to other groups since it'd bog down other series if they had to explain to readers every five minutes why a bunch of bigots are randomly forming a mob around deities etc. How powerful a suer-human is impacts this, as well. Magneto is going to get less violence against him from a mob than Beak, because people realise they don't like dying in the next five minutes.

  14. #629
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Guess who this is:

    If you guess Hela, you're right, but realistically, most people would just see a woman with weird fashion sense and not a goddess capable of demolishing a city with her bare hands in minutes.
    Even in her goddess attire, I wouldn't recognize her… She certainly has a way to blend in without blending in…

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Magneto is going to get less violence against him from a mob than Beak, because people realise they don't like dying in the next five minutes.
    And strangely Beak is a sweetheart and Magneto is not.
    Beak can hardly blend in but personally, I prefer Beak's company than 'I'm a god and you are insects' Magneto's.

  15. #630
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Mutants are fine when they blend init's when they use their powers in public that they get backlash. Marvel's been wishy washy about this applying to other groups since it'd bog down other series if they had to explain to readers every five minutes why a bunch of bigots are randomly forming a mob around deities etc. How powerful a suer-human is impacts this, as well. Magneto is going to get less violence against him from a mob than Beak, because people realise they don't like dying in the next five minutes.
    Yeah that's if the Scarlet Witch ain't feeling fake self loathing, Or if the Sentinels aren't out scanning for anyone with an XGene to destroy or the inhumans Poison cloud is not in the forecast. THEEEEN yesh you might be able to blend in..lol.Every5 minutes?! I would think eventually readers would just understand that's how the 616 works and explanation would be minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    How powerful a suer-human is impacts this, as well. Magneto is going to get less violence against him from a mob than Beak, because people realise they don't like dying in the next five minutes.
    .... Magneto went above and beyond when San Francisco was hit by that earthquake. Saving a human city....+ Consider an angry mob if Humans stopped him from saving his daughter from burning alive if his reaction is more violent it's kiiiinda understandable
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    And strangely Beak is a sweetheart and Magneto is not.
    Beak can hardly blend in but personally, I prefer Beak's company than 'I'm a god and you are insects' Magneto's.
    Dang you prefer the drivel and prattle of new Dad Beak about his half dozen or so Chicken/fly kids??? Your masochism is very niche
    GrindrStone(D)

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