How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Banner]

And what minorities were mutants supposed to represent during the short Lee and Kirby run? Non-existent minorities like humans born with superpowers? Seems like the writers took inspirations from already existing novels and short stories about mutants. After the comic got new writers it luckily moved in a different direction for several years.

When Scott is chased by a mob beceause he is one of those that Trask had "warned them about", it works just as good as a comment about the stupidity of the masses and how easy some are to lead.

What I'm curious about is why so many want, even need, X-Men to represent some kind of minority. There are mutants and other superheroes of all ethnicities and orientations these days, and so they already represent these these groups. What's left for mutants to represent?

[tuck frump]

And what minorities were mutants supposed to represent during the short Lee and Kirby run?

They were a commentary on the american civil rights movement since their inception. Not sorry to break it to you but minorities were in fact, not invented in the 80s.

[Banner]

They were a commentary on the american civil rights movement since their inception. Not sorry to break it to you but minorities were in fact, not invented in the 80s.

What's up with the attitude? And I just don't see the similarities between costumed fictional mutants with superpowers and American minorities in the 60s.

[Killerbee911]

It's interesting how this argument keeps popping up among X-fans yet is never supported by the books which keep trotting out mutants with extremely destructive powers by the bus load. It's also clearly an argument X-fans will ignore when they want to brag about how easily mutants can win a war against anyone who comes for them.

How isn't support by the books? If ALL Mutants could bully humans on that scale then 16 million of them wouldn't have gotten wipe out by Sentinels or gotten hunted down Rosenberg Uncanny or during the terrigen mist stuff. 16 million and not ONE could stop Sentinel like Magento or Polaris could that kind shows the scale of power level mutants in general. The X-men(well trained combat ready) represent a small number and the extremely powerful mutants the WMDs with in the X-men and mutants represent a even smaller number of mutants. The vast majority of mutants are peaceful and have completely control of their powers or can gain control of their powers with training. Hell yeah Matthew Malloy is scary as hell but how that different from any white male mass shooters. Yeah Malloy has higher capability to do damage but he doesn't represent every mutant the same way all those guys dangerous white males doesn't represented the majority of white population. Base on mutants is dangerous theory I should be afraid of ALL young white males ages 16 to 35 because some of them are mass shooters and serial killers. Right? Are we judging whole group on their most powerful representation to damage? So that means the pres.... I think you get the point.

Bragging about the X-men in will beat up anyone who comes for them in war by fans is equivalent about bragging about US Marine Corps doing the same which is specialize group of trained people who are skilled are fighting. And to bring it home I am not even bragging on Marine Corps itself I am talking about Force Recon which is special operations group in Marines which is the equivalent of Delta Force/Rangers in the Army or Seals in the Navy. Even within elite fighting group like Marine Corps their still high amount of people wouldn't be useful in a fight. Bragging about how the US would trash countries in a fight doesn't mean the civilian population can beat up countries in a fight(except maybe civilian pop in the state of Texas). The same is true for the X-men.

Lastly Marvel isn't DC, The vast majority of mutants are killed by a bullet and they don't have superhuman reflexes that they should be able respond before getting hit by a bullet. Meaning Magneto, Storm, Exodus,Jean and others could be killed before they could put up shields or realize they needs to stop a bullet.

[Agent Z]

Possibly because for all the talk of mutants being weapons of mass destruction, the worst deaths in the 616 have universally come from normal humans.

Well this is a bare-faced lie or at least an inaccuracy. Thanos' murder of half the universe alone trumps what normal humans have done.

How isn't support by the books? If Mutants could bully humans on that scale then 16 million of them wouldn't have gotten wipe out by Sentinels or gotten hunted down Rosenberg Uncanny or during the terrigen mist stuff.

Sentinels and Terrigen mists are not humans.

X-men( well trained combat ready) represent a small number and the extremely powerful mutants the WMDs with in the X-men represent a even smaller number of mutants.

Again, where is the proof of this? X-Men fans keep stating this but the books do not depict it this way. Marvel puts out at least five book series about the X-men and their world every year. They could easily dedicate some of them to mutants with harmless powers like changing the flavor of ice cream or turning into a soccer ball. The idea that the majority of mutant powers are harmless is not and never has been supported by the books. Some cannon fodder c-listers being killed off to establish the threat level of the main villain doesn’t change that.

Hell yeah Matthew Malloy is scary as hell but how that different from any white male mass shooters.

Easy – those guys need to buy guns to be dangerous. They aren’t the guns themselves.

Yeah Malloy has higher capability to do damage but he doesn't represent every mutant the same way all those guys dangerous white males doesn't represented the majority of white population. Base on mutants is dangerous theory I should be afraid of ALL young white males ages 16 to 35 because some of them are mass shooters and serial killers. Right? Are we judging whole group on their most powerful representation to damage? So that means the pres.... I think you get the point.

Again, when you start bringing super powers into the equation, it looks very different. The amount of damage a president can cause takes time, money and power that the average normal human does not possess. The average mutant only needs to be willing and able to exploit their power to its fullest potential.

[BroHomo]

Sentinels are not humans
.

Nah but the humans who created them are humans

Again, where is the proof of this? X-Men fans keep stating this but the books do not depict it this way.

We call it Common Sense

Marvel puts out at least five book series about the X-men and their world every year. They could easily dedicate some of them to mutants with harmless powers like changing the flavor of ice cream or turning into a soccer ball. The idea that the majority of mutant powers are harmless is not and never has been supported by the books

Because why would there be a book about that? Who will read that? lol

Easy – those guys need to buy guns to be dangerous. They aren’t the guns themselves..

They could just already have guns

Again, when you start bringing super powers into the equation, it looks very different. The amount of damage a president can cause takes time, money and power that the average normal human does not possess. The average mutant only needs to be willing and able to exploit their power to its fullest potential.

Who has More destructive potential, the Ice cream flavor changing Mutant or a desperate President Trump??

What's up with the attitude? And I just don't see the similarities between costumed fictional mutants with superpowers and American minorities in the 60s.

It's troubling meeting someone with such jarringly bad eyesight yet still able to read

[Killerbee911]

Again, where is the proof of this? X-Men fans keep stating this but the books do not depict it this way. Marvel puts out at least five book series about the X-men and their world every year. They could easily dedicate some of them to mutants with harmless powers like changing the flavor of ice cream or turning into a soccer ball. The idea that the majority of mutant powers are harmless is not and never has been supported by the books. Some cannon fodder c-listers being killed off to establish the threat level of the main villain doesn’t change that.

You mean like the power to translate languages, The power to stretch your skin, The power to be flightless bird,The power to have bird wings,The power to have big hands and feet, The power shoot Gold eggs, The power to talk to computers, The power to heal people, The power to have three faces, The power of luck, The power to have a long neck, The power to mimic any sound heard, The power to be a frog, The power to talk to animals and plants,The power to walk through walls, The power to adapt ,The power to turn into organic steel ,The power to invent stuff, The power to change forms, The power rip off skins and change forms, The power to control your bones,etc The vast majority of powers aren't inherently dangerous or don't have obvious have combat application. And for the rest the majority of mutants aren't Alphas or Omega so the power levels aren't wide scale dangerous.That is factual.

Easy – those guys need to buy guns to be dangerous. They aren’t the guns themselves.

Having a gun isn't a inherently dangerous, Mutant being the guns themselves doesn't matter. Using a gun is an active choice, Just like using a powers is an active choice There is a reason I have said over and over that most mutants have been proven to be able to control their powers. If all mutants couldn't control powers or deemed highly dangerous on scale used inside the books you would have a point.To make it clear

1. Most mutants CAN control their powers or can learn to control their powers.

2. Most mutants aren't WMD. They are about 13 mutants on the omega list , I would guess about 30 to 60 who fall in Alpha list aka the Weapons of mass destructions or deemed highly dangerous. Just for sake of your argument I am going to give you 1,000 Alpha mutants which is out of number 32 million mutants worldwide which is the highest estimate. Wouldn't you say 1,000 out 17 million or 32 million is a pretty small number? And you aren't going to find a official list of Alphas mutants that is higher than 30 or 40.

The X-men comics have taught over and over the most mutants can control their powers. The list of mutants who can't control their powers is low. People can't argue against this most mutants at bare minimum can live their lives without using their powers. Aka Jubilee or Boom Boom might not have fine tune control over actively using their powers but they have 100% percent control over activating their powers. Most mutants with training can learn control their powers even under emotional distress .The list of mutants like Cyclops, Surge, Rogue who can't control their powers without help is low and you will struggle to name more those I just named.

Sorry the myth of mutants dangerous to degree of humans are randomly are scared of mutants hurting them by accident is kinda BS. Very few mutants don't have the ability to control the "activation" of their powers. It means that when most mutants use their powers it is an active purposeful choice. This means in all honesty mutant powers and gun ownership have something in common . People who are too young, too unstable,sick or mental ill should have some restrictions on them. A gun doesn't go off by itself, Mutant powers when train definitely don't go off by themselves and majority mutants can control the activation of their powers without training. A mutant using their powers in the X-world is an active choice.

[Zelena]

"Fighting against racism/homophobia is SELFISH since you're black/gay" is certainly a take.

Do the mutants in Krakoa fight against racism anti-mutant?
Fighting against racism is fighting against any kind of racism and it's not what they do anyway.

[BroHomo]

Do the mutants in Krakoa fight against racism anti-mutant?
Fighting against racism is fighting against any kind of racism and it's not what they do anyway.

What they do now?

[Lapsus]

You mean like the power to translate languages, The power to stretch your skin, The power to be flightless bird,The power to have bird wings,The power to have big hands and feet, The power shoot Gold eggs, The power to talk to computers, The power to heal people, The power to have three faces, The power of luck, The power to have a long neck, The power to mimic any sound heard, The power to be a frog, The power to talk to animals and plants,The power to walk through walls, The power to adapt ,The power to turn into organic steel ,The power to invent stuff, The power to change forms, The power rip off skins and change forms, The power to control your bones,etc The vast majority of powers aren't inherently dangerous or don't have obvious have combat application. And for the rest the majority of mutants aren't Alphas or Omega so the power levels aren't wide scale dangerous.That is factual.




Having a gun isn't a inherently dangerous, Mutant being the guns themselves doesn't matter. Using a gun is an active choice, Just like using a powers is an active choice There is a reason I have said over and over that most mutants have been proven to be able to control their powers. If all mutants couldn't control powers or deemed highly dangerous on scale used inside the books you would have a point.To make it clear

1. Most mutants CAN control their powers or can learn to control their powers.

2. Most mutants aren't WMD. They are about 13 mutants on the omega list , I would guess about 30 to 60 who fall in Alpha list aka the Weapons of mass destructions or deemed highly dangerous. Just for sake of your argument I am going to give you 1,000 Alpha mutants which is out of number 32 million mutants worldwide which is the highest estimate. Wouldn't you say 1,000 out 17 million or 32 million is a pretty small number? And you aren't going to find a official list of Alphas mutants that is higher than 30 or 40.

The X-men comics have taught over and over the most mutants can control their powers. The list of mutants who can't control their powers is low. People can't argue against this most mutants at bare minimum can live their lives without using their powers. Aka Jubilee or Boom Boom might not have fine tune control over actively using their powers but they have 100% percent control over activating their powers. Most mutants with training can learn control their powers even under emotional distress .The list of mutants like Cyclops, Surge, Rogue who can't control their powers without help is low and you will struggle to name more those I just named.

Sorry the myth of mutants dangerous to degree of humans are randomly are scared of mutants hurting them by accident is kinda BS. Very few mutants don't have the ability to control the "activation" of their powers. It means that when most mutants use their powers it is an active purposeful choice. This means in all honesty mutant powers and gun ownership have something in common . People who are too young, too unstable,sick or mental ill should have some restrictions on them. A gun doesn't go off by itself, Mutant powers when train definitely don't go off by themselves and majority mutants can control the activation of their powers without training. A mutant using their powers in the X-world is an active choice.

Is bias because you are reading a comic book, you follow the heroic mutants and at the end of the day, you know where they morals stand, and if they make a mistake, they dont mean it or there is an explanation.

This is too much information that you have, information the average human doesnt have and, in the case of the real world,
information that nobody would have.

If mutants were real a policy of control would be needed not because of the harmless mutants but because of the ones who want to use their powers to do harm. Is impossible to simply think that mutants wouldnt change or view of the world.

The opposite of this is thinking that mutants cant be criminals because they are a bunch of perfect mary sue's.

[BroHomo]

The opposite of this is thinking that mutants cant be criminals because they are a bunch of perfect mary sue's.

I don't think that was implied or hinted at or rumoured.....

[jwatson]

Is bias because you are reading a comic book, you follow the heroic mutants and at the end of the day, you know where they morals stand, and if they make a mistake, they dont mean it or there is an explanation.

This is too much information that you have, information the average human doesnt have and, in the case of the real world,
information that nobody would have.

If mutants were real a policy of control would be needed not because of the harmless mutants but because of the ones who want to use their powers to do harm. Is impossible to simply think that mutants wouldnt change or view of the world.

The opposite of this is thinking that mutants cant be criminals because they are a bunch of perfect mary sue's.

Hmmm that sounds a lot like law and order or stop and frisk that was directed at the black community. You know not for the innocent ones but for the "dangerous" ones. The potential criminals. The ones who may still be upset over being treated as less than because of their oppressors. Fear of retribution for one's own sins placed back on the minority they oppressed

[Zelena]

What they do now?

Yes, what do they do now?

[djoki96]

Okay, time to get crucified.

First, I'm gonna say that mutants can be an allegory for minorities, to an extent, if written well. Not Rosenberg's "transphobic attack on Rahne" though. That was just tone deaf.

That said, I get the feeling that they are actually using mutants as a stand-in for real life minorities (as in, they're using it as an excuse not to write actual minorities). Most of the visible X-Men are attractive white, straight, and abled people. At the moment, the only visible minorities are Storm and Iceman. Mystique is popular, sure, but not all that visible (which, considering Mystique's personality and modus operandi is especially jarring). I mean, they started (under Claremont's pen, Lee and Kirby simply wrote them as generic heroes) as a stand-in for civil rights- which was mostly led by black people, mostly straight but there were quite a few visible queer members- and all of the members were white Episcopalians (no, seriously, Jean and Angel are confirmed Episcopalians, Beast was raised as one), which was an epitome of middle class white people back in the 60s. Hearing all those attractive white people complaining about being discriminated against, when there are actual visible minorities and powerless mutants facing much worse around the world, can be rather jarring.

The biggest offender, in my opinion, is (and here's where I'm getting crucified twice) Emma Frost. A white straight one percenter who got away with some rather heinous crimes scot-free. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for her? Sympathize? Yeah, no.

That's just my long winded way of saying that mutants are minorities for writers who'd rather not risk it by writing minorities who are visible minorities (when did Karma come out, again? Did she have girlfriend, already? Was her being gay even mentioned afterwards?), so they are a good way for white liberals to pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive" while not being, you know, inclusive.

[BroHomo]

Okay, time to get crucified.

First, I'm gonna say that mutants can be an allegory for minorities, to an extent, if written well. Not Rosenberg's "transphobic attack on Rahne" though. That was just tone deaf.

That said, I get the feeling that they are actually using mutants as a stand-in for real life minorities (as in, they're using it as an excuse not to write actual minorities). Most of the visible X-Men are attractive white, straight, and abled people. At the moment, the only visible minorities are Storm and Iceman. Mystique is popular, sure, but not all that visible (which, considering Mystique's personality and modus operandi is especially jarring). I mean, they started (under Claremont's pen, Lee and Kirby simply wrote them as generic heroes) as a stand-in for civil rights- which was mostly led by black people, mostly straight but there were quite a few visible queer members- and all of the members were white Episcopalians (no, seriously, Jean and Angel are confirmed Episcopalians, Beast was raised as one), which was an epitome of middle class white people back in the 60s. Hearing all those attractive white people complaining about being discriminated against, when there are actual visible minorities and powerless mutants facing much worse around the world, can be rather jarring.

The biggest offender, in my opinion, is (and here's where I'm getting crucified twice) Emma Frost. A white straight one percenter who got away with some rather heinous crimes scot-free. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for her? Sympathize? Yeah, no.

That's just my long winded way of saying that mutants are minorities for writers who'd rather not risk it by writing minorities who are visible minorities (when did Karma come out, again? Did she have girlfriend, already? Was her being gay even mentioned afterwards?), so they are a good way for white liberals to pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive" while not being, you know, inclusive.

Iceman isn't a visible minority