How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[jwatson]

Okay, time to get crucified.

First, I'm gonna say that mutants can be an allegory for minorities, to an extent, if written well. Not Rosenberg's "transphobic attack on Rahne" though. That was just tone deaf.

That said, I get the feeling that they are actually using mutants as a stand-in for real life minorities (as in, they're using it as an excuse not to write actual minorities). Most of the visible X-Men are attractive white, straight, and abled people. At the moment, the only visible minorities are Storm and Iceman. Mystique is popular, sure, but not all that visible (which, considering Mystique's personality and modus operandi is especially jarring). I mean, they started (under Claremont's pen, Lee and Kirby simply wrote them as generic heroes) as a stand-in for civil rights- which was mostly led by black people, mostly straight but there were quite a few visible queer members- and all of the members were white Episcopalians (no, seriously, Jean and Angel are confirmed Episcopalians, Beast was raised as one), which was an epitome of middle class white people back in the 60s. Hearing all those attractive white people complaining about being discriminated against, when there are actual visible minorities and powerless mutants facing much worse around the world, can be rather jarring.

The biggest offender, in my opinion, is (and here's where I'm getting crucified twice) Emma Frost. A white straight one percenter who got away with some rather heinous crimes scot-free. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for her? Sympathize? Yeah, no.

That's just my long winded way of saying that mutants are minorities for writers who'd rather not risk it by writing minorities who are visible minorities (when did Karma come out, again? Did she have girlfriend, already? Was her being gay even mentioned afterwards?), so they are a good way for white liberals to pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive" while not being, you know, inclusive.

I always felt when done well it was used as a way to give certain people who lacked basic empathy, empathy for a situation that if one thing was different about you, you could be hated, feared, and hunted to death as well. I think the original 05 was suppose to make racists at the time take a look in the mirror and feel something. But i do agree depending on the person writing the message it can generally be abused. I would even go so far as to say some writers resent the minority connection or the feeling or idea that they should feel guilt over perpetrating oppression and they take that resentment and hate out on the mutants. Almost like they get off on torching the "minority" of the marvel u.

[djoki96]

Iceman isn't a visible minority

I meant "visible" as in somewhat well known and that we can see him flirting with, and being attracted to, men.

[Agent Z]

Nah but the humans who created them are humans

And how many humans have the power to create Sentinels?

We call it Common Sense

I call it unprovable bullshit.

Because why would there be a book about that? Who will read that? Lol

Well then you can’t complain when people point out how dangerous mutants are.

They could just already have guns

Yeah but they aren’t born with the guns and don’t have them all the time.

[Lapsus]

Hmmm that sounds a lot like law and order or stop and frisk that was directed at the black community. You know not for the innocent ones but for the "dangerous" ones. The potential criminals. The ones who may still be upset over being treated as less than because of their oppressors. Fear of retribution for one's own sins placed back on the minority they oppressed

Is not remotely the same, there is a good proof that the criminal policy against black people was and is biased.

Criminal activities are not tied to race, racist people would claim otherwise, but their argument crumbles when you show that wealthier countries have less criminal rate, people is not predisposed to crime because they belong to a specific race.

With mutants, we are speaking of people which can be born with guns, it cant be compare with our world, and yes, not every mutant have a lethal power but for those who have abilities that can potentialy be considered "game breaker", we would need something to protect ourselves from those that want to do harm, a law, a form of registration, i really dont know, is not an easy problem.

Comic world is a less complicated place, so their solution was the invention of robots.

[BroHomo]

And how many humans have the power to create Sentinels?

It only takes one

Yeah but they aren’t born with the guns and don’t have them all the time.

Ever been to the Southern United States?

[Zelena]

Comic world is a less complicated place, so their solution was the invention of robots.

Comic books aim for drama and troubles; it's not a bullet-proof demonstration how things would go if such things happen in our world.
Anyway, we have enough real problems to worry about without considering theoretical problems.

[pkingdom]

Okay, time to get crucified.

First, I'm gonna say that mutants can be an allegory for minorities, to an extent, if written well. Not Rosenberg's "transphobic attack on Rahne" though. That was just tone deaf.

That said, I get the feeling that they are actually using mutants as a stand-in for real life minorities (as in, they're using it as an excuse not to write actual minorities). Most of the visible X-Men are attractive white, straight, and abled people. At the moment, the only visible minorities are Storm and Iceman. Mystique is popular, sure, but not all that visible (which, considering Mystique's personality and modus operandi is especially jarring). I mean, they started (under Claremont's pen, Lee and Kirby simply wrote them as generic heroes) as a stand-in for civil rights- which was mostly led by black people, mostly straight but there were quite a few visible queer members- and all of the members were white Episcopalians (no, seriously, Jean and Angel are confirmed Episcopalians, Beast was raised as one), which was an epitome of middle class white people back in the 60s. Hearing all those attractive white people complaining about being discriminated against, when there are actual visible minorities and powerless mutants facing much worse around the world, can be rather jarring.

The biggest offender, in my opinion, is (and here's where I'm getting crucified twice) Emma Frost. A white straight one percenter who got away with some rather heinous crimes scot-free. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for her? Sympathize? Yeah, no.

That's just my long winded way of saying that mutants are minorities for writers who'd rather not risk it by writing minorities who are visible minorities (when did Karma come out, again? Did she have girlfriend, already? Was her being gay even mentioned afterwards?), so they are a good way for white liberals to pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive" while not being, you know, inclusive.

Agree 100%. I'm glad that these days I can read stories like Miles Morales and Ironheart, which have been far better at telling stories for minorities than the X-men have been in a long while.

And I'm right there with you for Emma Frost. A rich, white, straight blonde woman, with a non-visible extremely powerful mutation that has only made her life easier for her, and who almost never faces the consequences for her terrible behavior and heinous crimes. Every time she talks about how oppressed mutants are and is placed as a leader of the mutant cause I want to puke.

[pkingdom]

Is not remotely the same, there is a good proof that the criminal policy against black people was and is biased.

Criminal activities are not tied to race, racist people would claim otherwise, but their argument crumbles when you show that wealthier countries have less criminal rate, people is not predisposed to crime because they belong to a specific race.

With mutants, we are speaking of people which can be born with guns, it cant be compare with our world, and yes, not every mutant have a lethal power but for those who have abilities that can potentialy be considered "game breaker", we would need something to protect ourselves from those that want to do harm, a law, a form of registration, i really dont know, is not an easy problem.

Comic world is a less complicated place, so their solution was the invention of robots.

Its the scale of lethal powers thats the problem. Going strictly by background shots, most mutants that aren't a named character just look like aliens or animal people and don't have useful powers. But the series keeps introducing mutants with super dangerous powers that just kill everyone around them en masse. Like the girl who's nightmares come to life. Hell, during one of the super weird phases where the Punisher was an angel, he fought a mutant who's power was just 'kill everyone in a several mile radius'. Ultimate X-men had a guy who disintegrated his entire town, and had to be told by Wolverine in order to even realize he was doing it. Even the responsible mutants like Storm can be super dangerous; the first time the X-men fought Dr. Doom, he locked Storm in an iron suit, causing her to panic and almost destroy the world with a super tornado thing.

I actually would like more stories with the gross or useless powers. They make better advocates. Its one thing when the supermodel godlike mutants talk about mutant pride and such, its another thing when Globb Herman does.

[spirit2011]

Its the scale of lethal powers thats the problem. Going strictly by background shots, most mutants that aren't a named character just look like aliens or animal people and don't have useful powers. But the series keeps introducing mutants with super dangerous powers that just kill everyone around them en masse. Like the girl who's nightmares come to life. Hell, during one of the super weird phases where the Punisher was an angel, he fought a mutant who's power was just 'kill everyone in a several mile radius'. Ultimate X-men had a guy who disintegrated his entire town, and had to be told by Wolverine in order to even realize he was doing it. Even the responsible mutants like Storm can be super dangerous; the first time the X-men fought Dr. Doom, he locked Storm in an iron suit, causing her to panic and almost destroy the world with a super tornado thing.

I actually would like more stories with the gross or useless powers. They make better advocates. Its one thing when the supermodel godlike mutants talk about mutant pride and such, its another thing when Globb Herman does.

That is part of the problem introduxe mutants that can kill easily thousands of people. Then people get ofended when parents wants to vacinated their kids.

Not only supermodel, but majority white too. X-men needs more POC on te frontlines

[useridgoeshere]

I think folks are conflating issues. Minority representation within the X-books and Mutants as a metaphor are different issues. Minority team members or solo characters don’t necessarily equate to addressing minority issues or addressing them well. Metaphors are always going to be inexact - that’s why they’re metaphors and not the actual thing.

On the whole Mutants being regulated thing, the point there should be that all Mutants are judged by the worst members of the community, which is exactly how minorities are treated and the majority is not. All minorities have been called dangerous. That’s why it works for me, because it feels so similar to gays being banned as teachers or Muslim travel bans or anti-immigrant policies, just to name a few examples of where entire groups were attacked through government regulation because of fear that a few were dangerous.

[Zelena]

I think folks are conflating issues. Minority representation within the X-books and Mutants as a metaphor are different issues. Minority team members or solo characters don’t necessarily equate to addressing minority issues or addressing them well. Metaphors are always going to be inexact - that’s why they’re metaphors and not the actual thing.

On the whole Mutants being regulated thing, the point there should be that all Mutants are judged by the worst members of the community, which is exactly how minorities are treated and the majority is not. All minorities have been called dangerous. That’s why it works for me, because it feels so similar to gays being banned as teachers or Muslim travel bans or anti-immigrant policies, just to name a few examples of where entire groups were attacked through government regulation because of fear that a few were dangerous.

Muslims -> Islamist terrorists
Gays -> ?

Sorry, there must be some gaps in my education…

[LordUltimus]

Statistically speaking, more people have died from gun accidents than from deliberate murder or shootings.

How many people have died because a mutant couldn't control their powers?

[djoki96]

Muslims -> Islamist terrorists
Gays -> ?

Sorry, there must be some gaps in my education…

Back in the day, before gay right were a thing, media loved reporting on how all gay people were paedophiles based on a couple of male paedophiles who went after young boys.

[Zelena]

Back in the day, before gay right were a thing, media loved reporting on how all gay people were paedophiles based on a couple of male paedophiles who went after young boys.

Thanks, right, there is always this confusion…

[jwatson]

Is not remotely the same, there is a good proof that the criminal policy against black people was and is biased.

Criminal activities are not tied to race, racist people would claim otherwise, but their argument crumbles when you show that wealthier countries have less criminal rate, people is not predisposed to crime because they belong to a specific race.

With mutants, we are speaking of people which can be born with guns, it cant be compare with our world, and yes, not every mutant have a lethal power but for those who have abilities that can potentialy be considered "game breaker", we would need something to protect ourselves from those that want to do harm, a law, a form of registration, i really dont know, is not an easy problem.

Comic world is a less complicated place, so their solution was the invention of robots.

You are making even less sense now. But to use your logic.

Reed Richards, Val, Richards, Dr. Doom, an experiment gone wrong can kill far more people than 99% of mutants.

Captain Marvel, Blue Marvel, Monica Rambou, Human Torch, can lose control of their powers and can do more devastation than 99% of mutants.

Captain America, Spiderman, Thing, can easily lose control and snap the neck of people or kill a large number of people.

Thor, Hercules, Odin, could easily do a level of devastation 99% of mutants could never do.

It isn't fear of powers or getting hurt that the marvel u in canon is afraid of. It is fear of the other.

Just recently Captain Marvel's own comic proved this point. When they thought she was a human who got her powers via accident they all loved Captain Marvel. But as soon as they found out she was Alien and thus "other" the Marvel U turned on her.