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  1. #406
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    Isn't Hickman's exclusionary gated community kinda not this Tycon? I totally respect you taking exception to my definition of the 'only fight' over simplification and I am guilty of depressed 'tired' fight in general. Appreciate your passion and open eyed gaze at the actual conflicts where social change is active and happening. It's that I am vulnerable to buying into Hickman's X-Books because I want inclusion want to care for comics where I could be...but honestly Tycon, I am not here in Krakoa, I left that place in my teens, and personally I have to make harder
    decisions about my voice and body and ability to listen without making an Oblivion of my own need and right to be authentic and okay, 'here'...my home is not in this in this House...my X eludes me...that sit in my body that is the place where I am in relation to others...my own identity...maybe it will require a personal struggle to take ahold of something and somebody other than Nightcrawler in blue and sexy mutant....a Kurt I don't know yet...um, maybe a good GN memoir..maybe my Kurt looks like Pepe's Kurt...and that's hard to let go. Where is the unique individual in Krakoa? Is it safe to live outside the dorms and palaces? Is it okay to be unsure about myself in this House? That's me...and I dunno...i want outside..and charts trigger me to follow commands I can't.
    Derek posted this amazing Alex Norris comic that explains how this is not exclusion but simply providing spaces for marginalized folks that weren’t accepted anywhere else:



    Krakoa was never an idea in the minds of many Black, Brown, LGBTQ+, and disabled voices because they were too busy living in the Rosencanny era. Making the choice to rise above systems that dehumanize your and make a place for your survival and prosperity is a far more mature and realistic approach than throwing yourself against an unchanging rule that just slowly drives you to extinction.

  2. #407
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamTPTK View Post
    Who said it wasn't calculated? Just because emotion took place doesn't mean the words weren't chosen with care.
    He highlights the fact that there was a certain approach back then, but because of things that happened, that approach will change. And humanity has no one but themselves to blame because now they will have to face the consequences. And I do believe he's more than personally involved. You know in psychology there's an idea that altruism is the final form of egotism. And since Xavier's goals are always noble and global, that makes a perfect case for his ego being completely consumed by collective affairs. I mean, he's one of mutantkind's prime ideologists.
    Of all things I didn't like about Hocus Pocus, can't say anything negative about that one. It was actually very well written imo.
    Notifying a change is coming? He surely has highlighted it…
    There is also another explanation: in the same time, he was proving to the mutant villains that has the situation in hand. He has been often accused in the past to be too soft, too 'understanding' and not willing to take sides… He is clearly not anymore the bridge between mutants and 'humans'.

  3. #408
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Derek posted this amazing Alex Norris comic that explains how this is not exclusion but simply providing spaces for marginalized folks that weren’t accepted anywhere else:



    Krakoa was never an idea in the minds of many Black, Brown, LGBTQ+, and disabled voices because they were too busy living in the Rosencanny era. Making the choice to rise above systems that dehumanize your and make a place for your survival and prosperity is a far more mature and realistic approach than throwing yourself against an unchanging rule that just slowly drives you to extinction.


    I love the Alex Norris cartoon. That's not this though. This tries very hard to be 'more'. Krakoian X-Men has a superiority complex. And issues with sincerity.

    Hickman doesn't write about the body and bodies Tycon. He writes about 'a people, using people as iconography. It's an approach that not only doesn't speak to me but serves as personally exclusionary and even autocratic. I can't do what it insits I must. My relationship to individuals is my only gate into any body of 'a people' and I can never identify me or anybody as a walled in cathedral or starship or empire. My place, vehicle and home is nomadic in its body. Even when I'm there, I need a window with nobody looking in so I can look out.
    Last edited by sungila; 01-25-2020 at 04:54 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  4. #409
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    That cartoon isn't even accurate in regards to Krakoa anyway. Krakoa is a lot more than just a safe place for mutants. Its a full-on nation who's leaders are openly declaring they want to seize control over the world through capitalism, while regularly committing acts of war with multiple paramilitary groups. Seriously, Marauders alone would be responsible for multiple global crisis' in the real world.

    I don't understand what you're talking about when you're mocking sungila for being 'colorblind', Tycon. We're at a point where all of those issues you listed are major issues in an upcoming presidential election in the United States alone. Other countries are making bigger strides then that. How do you think that happened? LGBT rights didn't just show up like magic. Its been a nasty, ongoing struggle all over the world, and its gotten results.

    The X-men have had the problem where its writers never let them make any progress AT ALL. Unlike every other minority group (in the US, at least), mutants have only been treated worse with time. Its made them less and less relatable and made the mutant metaphor less and less apt. Its one of the things I hate the most about HoXPoX. It had the lesson that mutants will NEVER succeed at coexistence, and all the time spent trying was pointless and doomed. It made the entire X history into a cynical and depressing waste of time.

  5. #410
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    I love the Alex Norris cartoon. That's not this though. This tries very hard to be 'more'. Krakoian X-Men has a superiority complex. And issues with sincerity.

    Hickman doesn't write about the body and bodies Tycon. He writes about 'a people, using people as iconography. It's an approach that not only doesn't speak to me but serves as personally exclusionary and even autocratic. I can't do what it insits I must. My relationship to individuals is my only gate into any body of 'a people' and I can never identify me or anybody as a walled in cathedral or starship or empire. My place, vehicle and home is nomadic in its body. Even when I'm there, I need a window with nobody looking in so I can look out.
    That’s absolutely what it is, though. Institutions that try to promote more inclusive voices tend to also be prideful in the attributes of said voices. Hickman isn’t the only one writing the story. Howard, Ayala, Williams, Duggan, Zdarsky, Hill, Percy, and Brisson are all writing about the nation of Krakoa and the various attitude and personas that exist. Hickman is dealing with larger concepts but the notion that he isn’t writing about bodies is false. Quality of writing may be subjective but his first issue of X-Men showed Storm’s willingness to lift up the mutant youth, Magneto in his own way trying to give those same youth a new childhood instead of one where they aren’t getting shot or gassed or depowered, and Cyclops having dinner with his family.

    People have the same complaints that pride of Blackness or queerness or femininity is somehow promoting “supremacy” and drawing allusions to actual destructive movements like white power or straight pride or misogyny(-noir).

  6. #411
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I don't understand what you're talking about when you're mocking sungila for being 'colorblind', Tycon. We're at a point where all of those issues you listed are major issues in an upcoming presidential election in the United States alone. Other countries are making bigger strides then that. How do you think that happened? LGBT rights didn't just show up like magic. Its been a nasty, ongoing struggle all over the world, and its gotten results.
    Whew. I wasn’t gonna respond to this post, but then I read your second paragraph. Ain’t no one mocking anybody for colorblindness. I’m informing sungila that the remark that there is no “only inclusive fight worth fighting for.” LGBTQ+ rights started in safe spaces like gay clubs and drag balls being raided by police. And when they had enough and FOUGHT BACK instead of trying to assimilate and culturally integrate, the movement was born. LGBTQ+ Pride and Movements were started by radical, antipolice and antiestablishment sentiment where no one under the umbrella was willing to compromise for a future where “everybody felt safe and secure” because that was a dumb idea that only resulted in internalized homophobia and transphobia within the community. The Stonewall Riots don’t erase the ideals of what cane before it, but it highlights the failures of the past and how more revolutionary ideas were needed to actually push the envelope.

  7. #412
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That cartoon isn't even accurate in regards to Krakoa anyway. Krakoa is a lot more than just a safe place for mutants. Its a full-on nation who's leaders are openly declaring they want to seize control over the world through capitalism, while regularly committing acts of war with multiple paramilitary groups. Seriously, Marauders alone would be responsible for multiple global crisis' in the real world.

    I don't understand what you're talking about when you're mocking sungila for being 'colorblind', Tycon. We're at a point where all of those issues you listed are major issues in an upcoming presidential election in the United States alone. Other countries are making bigger strides then that. How do you think that happened? LGBT rights didn't just show up like magic. Its been a nasty, ongoing struggle all over the world, and its gotten results.

    The X-men have had the problem where its writers never let them make any progress AT ALL. Unlike every other minority group (in the US, at least), mutants have only been treated worse with time. Its made them less and less relatable and made the mutant metaphor less and less apt. Its one of the things I hate the most about HoXPoX. It had the lesson that mutants will NEVER succeed at coexistence, and all the time spent trying was pointless and doomed. It made the entire X history into a cynical and depressing waste of time.
    Yeah, I can relate to that last point. Krakoa would be a lot less palatable to a lot of people without the backstory of repeated attempts at outright genocide and extermination of mutants at the hands of humans and human authorities with zero (successful) attempts at pushing back against the bigotry that led to those genocidal efforts in the first place. To wit, if humans are constantly shown as unrelentingly and uniformly bigoted to the point of genocidal hatred toward mutants, then what incentive is there to empathize with them or believe coexistence with them is an achievable or desirable goal?

    As for the overall mutant-minority metaphor, well, minorities in real life don't have the option of absconding to a living island that'll provide for all their needs and the means for them to thrive in safety from the constant attacks on their humanity, personhood, and quality of life by bigots, so they've got no choice but to try to tough it out in societies that all too often don't want to even acknowledge their existence, much less respect their right to exist. In that respect, the current status quo can be considered something of a wish fulfillment scenario/power fantasy for those long-persecuted and marginalized groups in the real world, who have a seemingly never-ending battle on their hands just to survive, let alone actually live and thrive.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #413
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, I can relate to that last point. Krakoa would be a lot less palatable to a lot of people without the backstory of repeated attempts at outright genocide and extermination of mutants at the hands of humans and human authorities with zero (successful) attempts at pushing back against the bigotry that led to those genocidal efforts in the first place. To wit, if humans are constantly shown as unrelentingly and uniformly bigoted to the point of genocidal hatred toward mutants, then what incentive is there to empathize with them or believe coexistence with them is an achievable or desirable goal?

    As for the overall mutant-minority metaphor, well, minorities in real life don't have the option of absconding to a living island that'll provide for all their needs and the means for them to thrive in safety from the constant attacks on their humanity, personhood, and quality of life by bigots, so they've got no choice but to try to tough it out in societies that all too often don't want to even acknowledge their existence, much less respect their right to exist. In that respect, the current status quo can be considered something of a wish fulfillment scenario/power fantasy for those long-persecuted and marginalized groups in the real world, who have a seemingly never-ending battle on their hands just to survive, let alone actually live and thrive.
    In the US, the LGBT and Civil Rights movements marched, screamed, protested, threw bricks, burned effigies and FOUGHT for every scrap of dignity they deserved. And its worked! Not as well as everyone hoped, but its ridiculous to say that things are as bad as they were just 30, 40 years ago. Meanwhile, the X-men have saved the world and entire nations want them dead. I wished we had gotten stories of them marching and protesting and gettings things like the a mutant civil rights act passed years ago. It would have made the metaphor work better, at least.

    I can understand it as wish fulfillment. I've read/watched/etc. plenty of stories about countries/worlds/universes where everyone was gay or black or whatever. Hell, its a decent amount of the appeal of Black Panther. Its when you factor in Magneto's speeches every few issues that get in the way. Its like getting a stick in the eye whenever I get happy that my favorite characters are happy. It reminds of Galt's Gultch from Atlas Shrugged whenever that happens.

  9. #414
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    as a person who is a minority having the heroes of the minority metaphor actualy take a stand, instead of you know, constantly getting attacked, berrated and treated like dirt even as they try to bend over backwards for those that hate them to the point of extinction , only to get more dirt in their faces while the mutants with any nerve to have a spine are painted as villains and the deaths of mutants are seen as a drama commodity, it always sent the mensage the x-men were more worried with what humans (the opressors) felt and thought, over the safety of mutants who many, unlike the x-men, dont look completly human or have usefull mutations.

    but since charles had a dream who cared about that, maybe if the x-men clean the senator's floor he might think a bit highly and not pass that pesky law.

    Its actually nice to see mutants have enough self love and notion that they deserve better to pretty much get their own nation, use capitalism to gain the political power necessary to control the game that always made mutants lose (wich is btw how many minorities secure their safety, by using politcs and financial gains to secure improvement to their people), krakoa is just that, it elevates heroes and villains sure, but also and most importanty:the thousands of normal civilian mutants who need it the most, who have no one but the x-men and krakoa, who were being experimented upon or living in misery and are now safe.

    its nice that the mutant with situations most akin real life minorities, those with striking features they cannot hide and powers that can be an hindrance will be protected instead of ignored, or put into a school that explodes every 2 seconds or is decorated with anti mutant rallies in the gates.

    krakoa does all of that with power that was adquired with praticaly 0 bloodshed, they have created legit political conections, are acting much nicer than atlantis, latveria, attilan ever acted, but aparently those 3 are fine.

    yet they are the villains, cute, interesting.
    truly what they say, for the priveledged equality feels like an injustice, i just never expected x-fans to react so negativly to mutants making a progress so for once they can actualy live, instead of barely surviving.
    Last edited by Ferro; 01-25-2020 at 09:20 PM.

  10. #415
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Whew. I wasn’t gonna respond to this post, but then I read your second paragraph. Ain’t no one mocking anybody for colorblindness. I’m informing sungila that the remark that there is no “only inclusive fight worth fighting for.” LGBTQ+ rights started in safe spaces like gay clubs and drag balls being raided by police. And when they had enough and FOUGHT BACK instead of trying to assimilate and culturally integrate, the movement was born. LGBTQ+ Pride and Movements were started by radical, antipolice and antiestablishment sentiment where no one under the umbrella was willing to compromise for a future where “everybody felt safe and secure” because that was a dumb idea that only resulted in internalized homophobia and transphobia within the community. The Stonewall Riots don’t erase the ideals of what cane before it, but it highlights the failures of the past and how more revolutionary ideas were needed to actually push the envelope.
    spill it, and now a days people either try to push it away the importance of stonewall. and the people that started it

  11. #416
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    as a person who is a minority having the heroes of the minority metaphor actualy take a stand, instead of you know, constantly getting attacked, berrated and treated like dirt even as they try to bend over backwards for those that hate them to the point of extinction , only to get more dirt in their faces while the mutants with any nerve to have a spine are painted as villains and the deaths of mutants are seen as a drama commodity, it always sent the mensage the x-men were more worried with what humans (the opressors) felt and thought, over the safety of mutants who many, unlike the x-men, dont look completly human or have usefull mutations.

    but since charles had a dream who cared about that, maybe if the x-men clean the senator's floor he might think a bit highly and not pass that pesky law.

    Its actually nice to see mutants have enough self love and notion that they deserve better to pretty much get their own nation, use capitalism to gain the political power necessary to control the game that always made mutants lose (wich is btw how many minorities secure their safety, by using politcs and financial gains to secure improvement to their people), krakoa is just that, it elevates heroes and villains sure, but also and most importanty:the thousands of normal civilian mutants who need it the most, who have no one but the x-men and krakoa, who were being experimented upon or living in misery and are now safe.

    its nice that the mutant with situations most akin real life minorities, those with striking features they cannot hide and powers that can be an hindrance will be protected instead of ignored, or put into a school that explodes every 2 seconds or is decorated with anti mutant rallies in the gates.

    krakoa does all of that with power that was adquired with praticaly 0 bloodshed, they have created legit political conections, are acting much nicer than atlantis, latveria, attilan ever acted, but aparently those 3 are fine.

    yet they are the villains, cute, interesting.
    truly what they say, for the priveledged equality feels like an injustice, i just never expected x-fans to react so negativly to mutants making a progress so for once they can actualy live, instead of barely surviving.
    Wow, I can't believe I never considered the behavior of other smaller, fictional countries in the MU. But I can't be as charitable in my interpretation of Krakoa's behavior as a nation. Atlantis, Latveria, and Attilan are at the BEST of times mildly antagonistic to the rest of the planet. At worst they're leading invasions or schemes in violation of other nations' sovereignty. As was said in X-Men #4, no country can pretend they haven't done underhanded things in the interest of their nation. But if the leaders of those three nations (or Wakanda even) flat out said they were going take over every country's media, interfere in elections to make sure only Atlantis/Attilan/Latveria-friendly politicians get elected, take over financial institutions so only those nations' citizens are in charge of the global economy? You'd have a goddamn war on your hands. Despite throwaway statements from Charles Xavier, Krakoa behaving in its own best interest comes at the expense of everyone else on the planet. But maybe that's intentional? Professor X and Magneto at the very end of HoX speak as if they're readying for an inevitable war.

    And that's before we get to the fact that Krakoans created permanent portals into a realm that was keeping them out, killed that realm's leader, and installed a slave trading insane Krakoan as king.

    I find this all incredibly interesting, mind you. I want to see what the breaking point is for each character as the stories where on, and more questionable actions get justified with "they attempted to exterminate us". I want to the struggles of folks like Black Tom who are earnestly trying to be better than they were try to salvage things. Do folks like that just revert to their old ways? And so on so forth.

  12. #417
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Wow, I can't believe I never considered the behavior of other smaller, fictional countries in the MU. But I can't be as charitable in my interpretation of Krakoa's behavior as a nation. Atlantis, Latveria, and Attilan are at the BEST of times mildly antagonistic to the rest of the planet. At worst they're leading invasions or schemes in violation of other nations' sovereignty. As was said in X-Men #4, no country can pretend they haven't done underhanded things in the interest of their nation. But if the leaders of those three nations (or Wakanda even) flat out said they were going take over every country's media, interfere in elections to make sure only Atlantis/Attilan/Latveria-friendly politicians get elected, take over financial institutions so only those nations' citizens are in charge of the global economy? You'd have a goddamn war on your hands. Despite throwaway statements from Charles Xavier, Krakoa behaving in its own best interest comes at the expense of everyone else on the planet. But maybe that's intentional? Professor X and Magneto at the very end of HoX speak as if they're readying for an inevitable war.

    And that's before we get to the fact that Krakoans created permanent portals into a realm that was keeping them out, killed that realm's leader, and installed a slave trading insane Krakoan as king.

    I find this all incredibly interesting, mind you. I want to see what the breaking point is for each character as the stories where on, and more questionable actions get justified with "they attempted to exterminate us". I want to the struggles of folks like Black Tom who are earnestly trying to be better than they were try to salvage things. Do folks like that just revert to their old ways? And so on so forth.
    at the expanse of giving humanity miracle drugs at the small price of mutants holding more power and changing the game so maybe there is more in the world on their side for the present and the future? krakoa is still giving a tremendous increase on human life when they could have done a variety of other things.
    its not super heroic, it is pragmatical and political, but it does not make them villains but players in this system, and dont ignore how attilan gassed the world and put their city willy nily near new york.

    also interesting how magneto knew an assasination team was being dealt with as he spoke, almost like he wasnt dealing with friendly co nations that were totaly honest in colaboration in the first place.
    Last edited by Ferro; 01-25-2020 at 10:38 PM.

  13. #418
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    at the expanse of giving humanity miracle drugs at the small price of mutants holding more power and changing the game so maybe there is more in the world on their side for the present and the future? krakoa is still giving a tremendous increase on human life when they could have done a variety of other things.
    its not super heroic, it is pragmatical and political, but it does not make them villains but players in this system, and dont ignore how attilan gassed the world and put their city willy nily near new york.
    It does not matter what conquerors are offering those they wish to conquer. It doesn't matter what Attilan/Latveria/Atlantis offers to the rest of the world as leverage in exchange for them taking over their institutions and turning their governments into puppets that only speak what's beneficial for its true owners. If you replaced 'Mutant' with 'Badoon', 'Kree', 'Shi'ar', 'Skrull' it's the plot of your average malevolent alien invasion movie or show. And no, I didn't ignore Attilan gassing the damn planet for their own gain. Much like I didn't ignore Emma going along with that hideous Mothervine plan.

    also interesting how magneto knew an assasination team was being dealt with as he spoke, almost like he wasnt dealing with friendly co nations that were totaly honest in colaboration in the first place.
    It's not really surprising. Remember, Charles invaded the mind of everyone on the planet to announce to humanity they were now subjects of new gods and the world no longer belonged to them. The birth of Krakoa began with an antagonistic declaration, and its leaders (whose plan is to take over the planet and make sure everything is pro-mutant) clearly do not believe in peaceful relations between nations and blatantly expect war even during Krakoa's celebration.

    It's things like this that make that Alexis Norris cartoon an inaccurate representation of Krakoa and its formation, and why X-Men as a whole currently does not work as a reflection of real life minorities.

  14. #419

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    I think the other part of this is the fact that the writers in Dawn of X are trying to show that the X-Men have to strive to protect all of those nameless mutants who were never able to defend themselves. It's like the thread about E is for Extinction, where it's pointed out that the people of Genosha were faceless. This is why the Krakoa era works better, because the X-Men are living there, several members of the X-Men are a part of the nascent government body. Member's of the X-Men are the commanders in the Krakoan military. The Krakoan secret service is run by mostly X-Men. Even with the smattering of villains thrown in the mix so far, it's really just Sebastian Shaw and Sinister that are trying to sabatage everything. Apocalypse wants to expand mutants into Otherworld, and I even think most of what he is trying to do is to get his original 4 back, because they were like family to him. The only criticism I have about Apocalypse is that he thinks everyone is expendable, but funny enough he was willing to let himself get killed too in order to complete the spell on the Otherworld gate.

    I like that Dawn of X is the story of the mutant race and how they try to overcome the prophecy of a future where they may be completely destroyed by the humans.

    Moira tried working with just Charles, and that failed every single time.
    Moira tried working with just Magneto, and that failed horribly.
    Moira tried working with Apocalypse, and even though they lasted longer than the other lifetimes, they still fell to the machines and the post-humans.

    So this lifetime the thing she is trying is what happens if I can bring Charles, Magneto, and Apocalypse to the table as one team. Can I unify them enough in common cause that they will work together for the common good of mutant kind. Can we try avoiding conflict with the humans for as long as possible, while doing things to slow down the advancement of the machines and post-humans. Hence the economic moves to direct human innovation away from creating AI and Sentinels.

    There is a good chance this will fail. But the story that is being told is the story of all mutants, not just the X-Men, this the story of all mutants, both hero and villain, or normal citizens who just want to live peacefully and not worry about Sentinels, Hounds, and government organizations coming to kill them at every opportunity.

    Like Jonathan Hickman said, not all the books are going to be for everyone. They are letting a lot of writers try new things with mutants, what happens if we make a team of mostly villains called the Hellions? What if we make a team of kids who idolize the X-Men and want to be just like them? What if we create an investigative agency to search for missing mutants and confirm if they need to be resurrected or not? What if we tell a story about the Krakoan secret service? What if we tell a story about shipping the precious life saving drugs and rescuing mutants from people who want to imprison or kill them? What if we show how Cyclops leads his rotating team on special missions as part of the Krakoan armed forces? What if we tell a story about how the younger mutants are trying to convince friends to come to Krakoa? Or a story about some younger mutants visiting the Shi'ar empire in the hopes of forging a closer alliance with the Shi'ar?

    The entire line of books gives us the story of the Krakoan nation and mutant kind. Will their nation work? Will they survive the future genocide that is coming? Will they be able to work with each other and not break into factions and dissension?

    I guess if you just want the X-Men to be an alternate Avengers team this direction isn't for you. Or wanting them to go back to the Xavier institute and defend a world that hates them, that doesn't really work when the soldiers keep showing up at your door every day with cures, death robots, and soldiers to round you up for imprisonment, experimentation, and death.

    Also, when the entire country of the United States is detaining mutants in cages in facilities over the US, innocent mutants who are being discovered and rounded up. If you are the X-Men and you genuinely care about what is happening to your fellow mutants, what do you do? If you are facing a world wide genocide of your people what do you do? You flee as refugees and you take as many people as you can with you! That is what they have done, they fled as refugees and formed a new nation Krakoa, and they hope and pray they can defend the gates against the wolves of humanity that are at their door!

    Dawn of X is the story of mutant kind and how they survive in a world that wants to exterminate them!

    This is not the first story about a people who were being oppressed, enslaved, and killed. 3300 years ago Moses led the Jewish people out of slavery in Egypt. They fled from their from their oppressors, they fled across the desert until they were far enough away that they were out of reach. The Jewish people then formed a nation, and they too had to defend their gates against the wolves at the door who wanted to oust them from their new homeland.

    People flee from genocide all over this world, and every single one of those people hopes and prays they can find a safe home land for their families and their people. The only difference with the mutants is that they had the money, resources, and technology to actually build their own homeland in a place where no human existed. They didn't have to displace anyone from the region, they were able to settle on Krakoa without hurting or displacing any humans! They were lucky, but they also needed knowledge and science to do this. They had to learn to communicate with the sentient island of Krakoa, they had to find a way to survive on the island with the knowledge that the island needs mutant life force to sustain itself. This is not a land without dangers. There is also the considerable future problem of the corresponding landmass of Arakko is currently holding a legion of demons back. As Krakoa gets stronger parts of Arakko are starting to return to our universe through the dimensional portal, eventually if all of Arakko comes back the mutants are going to be fighting against the same demon horde that Apocalypse and his four horseman did 4000 years ago!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  15. #420
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Krakoa still has the Genosha problem. I care a bit about the X-men, but I don't care about faceless mutant people of Krakoa. As for the X-men, the story hasn't done the narrative legwork to justify why Krakoa has become the most important thing in all of their lives. Its why so many people complain about people not sounding like themselves or being out of character. Why, after failing to do this exact thing with Genosha, Utopia and New Tian would they be this gung-ho?

    The stories being told don't feel nearly as new or revolutionary for me as they do for some people. Its just yet another 'we have to prevent the bad future' plot mixed with the gloom and doom of the unending genocide stories, with a slightly reflavored Utopia thrown in to boot.

    Mutants have this weird dichotomy where they are both utterly meek and helpless in the face of human cruelty, to the point that all integration attempts have failed and they keep getting killed by the droves; while at the same time are 'the future of humanity' and count among their members a small group of people who could end the world several times over with a thought. When your story follows the second group, then no shit people think they should be cured or killed. Xavier started cults all over the world by accident with his powers. When you show up to an economic forum with a famous terrorist and a guy who jokes about ending the Bronze Age, of course its not going to go well. Krakoa, and the mutant story in general, would work so much better if it focused on the nameless animal people in the background shots. If they were the main characters that we followed, then everything about Krakoa really would feel like a beacon of hope, and the human bigotry would feel more vile and misplaced.

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