How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[BroHomo]

Frankly, if the X-men cannot be used to be a positive metaphor in any kind, I don't see what is their usefulness.

Most fans tend to continue believing they're still Hero's?

Being different and pack your things and go playing an immortal life on a paradisiac island, I don't really see the point of this kind of fiction. In our world, only rich people can do that except some eccentrics… besides being egotistical.

Nah you can your own paradise within lol

To me, Hickman's run, it is a middle-class dream (the parties, good life, the sun, no annoying neighbours…).

Uhhhh who doesn't dream that??

For the most part, the X-Men do want equality, at least so mutants won't be constantly attacked and threatened with mass murder, mass imprisonment, and even outright genocide simply for existing. It's groups like the Brotherhood, the Acolytes, or the Mutant Liberation Front that have been campaigning --- quite violently, at that --- for mutant supremacy. Apocalypse and his ilk simply care about "survival of the fittest," with the weak, whether human or mutant, to be brutally discarded and dispatched, while the Hellfire Club uses wealth and power to exploit humans and mutants alike for their own selfish profit. Then there're the Morlocks, who largely just want to be left alone and see the X-Men as a bunch of posturing hypocrites too consumed with their relative privilege to notice or care what happens to those mutants who can't blend in with normal humans and live in a fancy mansion. That's how things have usually worked in the X-Men's corner of the Marvel Universe.

Lol spot on summay

Then story happened and lines got blurred beyond recognition...

Such as in life

[Steel Inquisitor]

Again, it’s not like I asked for the prejudice, which exists in real life, to be completely taken out. If a “default” of the X-Men series focuses on hate, then cannot something similar be said of mutant progress (going back to how minority progress indeed exists in real life) which Professor X has focused on since the very beginning? If Hickman can be allowed to do something drastic with that, then I’ll continue to believe X-Men can do more than one realizes, and even being a metaphor and such shouldn’t restrict it.

Hickman's X-men hasn't lost the hated and feared aspect, all he did was put all the mutants on an island. They still fight mutant bigots, only rather than being mainly in America its on a global level. The tagline remains the same.

In any case, I respectfully disagree. If you come to have the opinion that X-Men should always focus on ultimately always being stomped on by the hateful reality, perhaps as drastic as life not being worth living for them anywhere, and not show anything different because of your conviction that the hate-based status quo will be the same no matter what, then fine, I’ll respect your opinion as it is. I don’t necessarily expect others to agree with me here, as I suppose I can come off as drastic, and some might even call me stupid for even sounding as such, but oh well. I at least take solace in being sure I’ve displayed my thoughts as reasonably and intelligently as I could, and just as you go forward in your beliefs and opinions, I’ll go forward in mine feeling no shame and the like, even if some call me dumb for questioning the status quo.

I'm not saying X-men "should" be doing anything, I'm simply acknowledging what the X-men brand is about. The X-men have gone through various changes in status quo over the years but nothing like you're suggesting. The only time period they experienced lack of fear from the public was when mutants were a secret and they still had mutant bigots in government and business making mutant lives hard. I don't see how Hickman proves they'll do what you think when he didn't do that in his run, all he's doing is recycling various parts of the mythology and putting his spin on things. I don't think you're stupid.

[Devaishwarya]

For the most part, the X-Men do want equality, at least so mutants won't be constantly attacked and threatened with mass murder, mass imprisonment, and even outright genocide simply for existing. It's groups like the Brotherhood, the Acolytes, or the Mutant Liberation Front that have been campaigning --- quite violently, at that --- for mutant supremacy. Apocalypse and his ilk simply care about "survival of the fittest," with the weak, whether human or mutant, to be brutally discarded and dispatched, while the Hellfire Club uses wealth and power to exploit humans and mutants alike for their own selfish profit. Then there're the Morlocks, who largely just want to be left alone and see the X-Men as a bunch of posturing hypocrites too consumed with their relative privilege to notice or care what happens to those mutants who can't blend in with normal humans and live in a fancy mansion. That's how things have usually worked in the X-Men's corner of the Marvel Universe.

And thank the Goddess HiX-Man came along when he did...because ALL that shyt was tired and done.
Don't get me wrong...ALL that shyt was fun and entertaining, even after the third and fourth retelling but we and the X-Men/Mutants desperately needed a new direction, ten years ago.

[spirit2011]

Frankly, if the X-men cannot be used to be a positive metaphor in any kind, I don't see what is their usefulness.

Fighting to show that, despite the differences, we can live together, no matter who we are, even if it sounds idealistic, I can understand. As an ideal, it has some power.

Being different and pack your things and go playing an immortal life on a paradisiac island, I don't really see the point of this kind of fiction. In our world, only rich people can do that except some eccentrics… besides being egotistical.
To me, Hickman's run, it is a middle-class dream (the parties, good life, the sun, no annoying neighbours…).

it is very a white person idea: POC or whatever minority go back to their origin place. or just a create a place separate from them.

X-men now is just top of capitalist chain of labor exploration

bad idea and bad execution

[Electricmastro]

The tagline remains the same.

And I’m not obligated to get behind the tag line no matter how often it’s popularly championed. Again, I disagree with approach in general and the opinion I‘m entitled to is just that. Nothing more, nothing less, and that’s ok.

Frankly, if the X-men cannot be used to be a positive metaphor in any kind, I don't see what is their usefulness.

Fighting to show that, despite the differences, we can live together, no matter who we are, even if it sounds idealistic, I can understand. As an ideal, it has some power.

Being different and pack your things and go playing an immortal life on a paradisiac island, I don't really see the point of this kind of fiction. In our world, only rich people can do that except some eccentrics… besides being egotistical.
To me, Hickman's run, it is a middle-class dream (the parties, good life, the sun, no annoying neighbours…).

Agreed. I’ll admit that I suppose it comes down to if the franchise wants to champion on with the tag line “world that fears and hates them” to the point that the franchise realistically can’t apply to real life minorities anymore, because there can come a point where fiction and reality become too drastically different to have many meaningful parallels, then fine, I’ll shut up and accept that a dystopian-esque, worldly-destructive hateful, reality is what the franchise may be going towards and respect the creative teams for what they want to do, in spite of my personal disagreements.

On the other hand, if the staff and many fans come along after Krakoa’s possible end up wanting a sort of approach in which mutants have some achievement with human integration, while at the same time not ignoring that prejudice exists, then also fine. I still honestly don’t see why the franchise forever always has to be attached to that tag line full force, since franchises can always change despite whatever is popular at the moment, and I somehow don’t think that every single generation will forever obsess over “world that fears and hates them,” as there can always be audiences who have tastes which differ generation after generation, including the idea that can’t be repeated enough times that life is worth living, even for minorities.

[Steel Inquisitor]

And I’m not obligated to get behind the tag line no matter how often it’s popularly championed. Again, I disagree with approach in general and the opinion I‘m entitled to is just that. Nothing more, nothing less, and that’s ok.

Nobody is saying you have to change your opinion.

Agreed. I’ll admit that I suppose it comes down to if the franchise wants to champion on with the tag line “world that fears and hates them” to the point that the franchise realistically can’t apply to real life minorities anymore, because there can come a point where fiction and reality become too drastically different to have many meaningful parallels, then fine, I’ll shut up and accept that a dystopian-esque, worldly-destructive hateful, reality is what the franchise may be going towards and respect the creative teams for what they want to do, in spite of my personal disagreements.

There is no "if," that's what the X-men have been doing from the start. The last few years they've ramped this up considerably, they weren't living on reservations in the 90's. Wasn't too long ago they were castigating new students that they were over reacting to mutants going extinct, like in New X-men: Academy X, and that was after M-Day.

On the other hand, if the staff and many fans come along after Krakoa’s possible end up wanting a sort of approach in which mutants have some achievement with human integration, while at the same time not ignoring that prejudice exists, then also fine. I still honestly don’t see why the franchise forever always has to be attached to that tag line full force, since franchises can always change despite whatever is popular at the moment, and I somehow don’t think that every single generation will forever obsess over “world that fears and hates them,” as there can always be audiences who have tastes which differ generation after generation,

Except the X-men have changed. They lived in Australia for years, there was Utopia, M-Day, and now Krakoa but they all had the status quo of mutants against bigots. Nobody is saying you can't want anything. But why would you assume something will change with the tagline, when no point in history have X-men done this. Why would Marvel want to change their tag line when they're made lots of money on this course of action? What niche would X-men fill and still retain that influence in the market?

including the idea that can’t be repeated enough times that lif
e is worth living, even for minorities.

This is why it's important not to get too emotionally invested in media because media is not real life. Because the implied message is that nothing good will happen, when in reality what dictates that message isn't anything in-universe it's corporate branding.

[Electricmastro]

it is very a white person idea: POC or whatever minority go back to their origin place. or just a create a place separate from them.

X-men now is just top of capitalist chain of labor exploration

bad idea and bad execution

Interesting view as well.

[Zelena]

Agreed. I’ll admit that I suppose it comes down to if the franchise wants to champion on with the tag line “world that fears and hates them” to the point that the franchise realistically can’t apply to real life minorities anymore, because there can come a point where fiction and reality become too drastically different to have many meaningful parallels, then fine, I’ll shut up and accept that a dystopian-esque, worldly-destructive hateful, reality is what the franchise may be going towards and respect the creative teams for what they want to do, in spite of my personal disagreements.

Maybe Marvel is to be blamed there… It's as if a catholic sees in the cross a symbol of death and not the proof of the love of Jesus.
Heroes have convictions and faith, they inspire their readers by showing how far they able to go for them.
It's not about the world around them, that, and we know it, never looks like we want.

Of course, Xavier's dream looks rather unrealistic now after all the persecutions Marvel has imagined.
But, this… 'gentrification' of the X-men isn't particularly exciting neither.
It's the same as when people talk about their lockdown in their cottage in the countryside to people secluded in their tiny flats.

[Lucyinthesky]

I think the Krakoa situation is a transition stage for the X-men to get into a different arena than the traditional one, the main reason being they needed a quick change in status quo because they were in a vicious circle or pain and death without doing much besides trying to survive and help others survive, with most of their members either dead or without powers. Age of X is in fact Nate´s Grey´s criticism on this status quo, the X-men were so busy fighting each other and in the end they didn´t get much or anything acomplished.

I definitely would like to see more nuance on the human/mutant discourse on Krakoa, I would like to see old and new allies giving their two cents but I also think the actual development´s have allowed for different stories and an oportunity to tackle the mutant/human issue from a global perspective and that´s interesting because while it has been touched in the past, it has not been managed this way.

[skyvolt2000]

it is very a white person idea: POC or whatever minority go back to their origin place. or just a create a place separate from them.

X-men now is just top of capitalist chain of labor exploration

bad idea and bad execution

Well when you have a certain demographic SCREAMING at you to make your own bleep and go away-what happens-you go and make your own BLEEP.

Then said demographic gets entitled and decides to destroy what you built out of JEALOUSY.

Black Wall Street say HI.

Historic Black colleges & Universities say Hi.

Destroying included but not limited to-removing the male from the households.
Stealing the best talent from schools.
removing or limiting resources.
Propping up negative images and role models to the youth.

Mean while the oppressors are still screaming "make you own stuff."

[PrezValentine]

Frankly, if the X-men cannot be used to be a positive metaphor in any kind, I don't see what is their usefulness.

Fighting to show that, despite the differences, we can live together, no matter who we are, even if it sounds idealistic, I can understand. As an ideal, it has some power.

Being different and pack your things and go playing an immortal life on a paradisiac island, I don't really see the point of this kind of fiction. In our world, only rich people can do that except some eccentrics… besides being egotistical.
To me, Hickman's run, it is a middle-class dream (the parties, good life, the sun, no annoying neighbours…).

It's like those people that can't see rich black people. "Oh, but you changed so much, you can't just enjoy the rich life after being so oppressed". So, the X-Men only have value for you and people with a similar vision as long as they're being punched down and insisting on the fool's errand of trying to reason with humans without having some place to fall back and strenghten themselves. That's a hot take if I ever saw one.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well when you have a certain demographic SCREAMING at you to make your own bleep and go away-what happens-you go and make your own BLEEP.

Then said demographic gets entitled and decides to destroy what you built out of JEALOUSY.

Black Wall Street say HI.

Historic Black colleges & Universities say Hi.

Destroying included but not limited to-removing the male from the households.
Stealing the best talent from schools.
removing or limiting resources.
Propping up negative images and role models to the youth.

Mean while the oppressors are still screaming "make you own stuff."

Well, yeah. That's the hypocrisy of it all. Really, certain people just don't want certain other people to have anything valuable or worthwhile of their own, whether tangible or intangible. That's how it goes in real life, and that's apparently how it goes for the X-Men or mutants as a whole in the Marvel Universe.

[CoCoBandz]

Well when you have a certain demographic SCREAMING at you to make your own bleep and go away-what happens-you go and make your own BLEEP.

Then said demographic gets entitled and decides to destroy what you built out of JEALOUSY.

Black Wall Street say HI.

Historic Black colleges & Universities say Hi.

Destroying included but not limited to-removing the male from the households.
Stealing the best talent from schools.
removing or limiting resources.
Propping up negative images and role models to the youth.

Mean while the oppressors are still screaming "make you own stuff."

The cognitive dissonance is really real.

[Huntsman Spider]

The cognitive dissonance is really real.

Pretty much. Most people don't want to think of themselves as "the bad guy," even if their actions or inaction have caused others to suffer, or they benefit, whether directly or indirectly, from the suffering of others, so they do some extreme mental gymnastics to reframe their actions or inaction in ways that make them feel less bad about themselves. It's likely the same with how humans view mutants in the Marvel Universe; if they can convince themselves that all mutants are apocalyptically dangerous menaces out to destroy them and their way of life, then all the suffering inflicted on mutants becomes more justifiable, and humans don't have to think too hard about what they're doing.

[PrezValentine]

Well when you have a certain demographic SCREAMING at you to make your own bleep and go away-what happens-you go and make your own BLEEP.

Then said demographic gets entitled and decides to destroy what you built out of JEALOUSY.

Black Wall Street say HI.

Historic Black colleges & Universities say Hi.

Destroying included but not limited to-removing the male from the households.
Stealing the best talent from schools.
removing or limiting resources.
Propping up negative images and role models to the youth.

Mean while the oppressors are still screaming "make you own stuff."

Hadn't read this before but damn. Thank you for this.