How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[marhawkman]

Lizards are sunbathing on the walls… until I come and they go away.
I don't want to harm them but, how could they know? I'm just much, much bigger than they are.
I don't think being afraid of someone stronger than yourself is particularly a human thing: it is included in our 'reptilian brain'. In a civilized environment, we usually assume that people will behave.

Oh I'm not saying it's universal. But that there are a significant number of people who go into "barking chihuahua" mode when they feel intimidated in any way. I personally don't consider it normal behavior. But behavior that causes problems when it comes up.

[BroHomo]

Well, I guess once again I say that going by that, that there’s no hope for anyone and that there’s no good reason to keep on living, is there?

Pupipies...Music

Lizards are sunbathing on the walls… until I come and they go away.
I don't want to harm them but, how could they know? I'm just much, much bigger than they are.
I don't think being afraid of someone stronger than yourself is particularly a human thing: it is included in our 'reptilian brain'. In a civilized environment, we usually assume that people will behave.

Hmm thats a really neat way to express that whole interation

It´s ok to be afraid, what´s not ok is letting ourselves hurt others because we are afraid, we have our rational brain for a reason and that´s to keep our impulses balanced.

Nice

[marhawkman]

The lizard analogy doesn't have the lizard trying to hunt you down and kill you. It's better that way TBH.

[Devaishwarya]

It's okies to be afraid...if and only if the object of your fear has given you immediate and justifiable reason to be afraid.
That 6ft 4inch, 350 lb White Zaddy staring at me so intensely from across the room probably just loves a delicious caramel swirl. And I'm NOT afraid of the swirl.
I'm certainly not going to pre-judge him or his entire race based on...nothing. That's abject lunacy.

That said, if he sends across any other drink besides rum...it's annihilation. Let me be clear, for him and only him.

[Electricmastro]

It's okies to be afraid...if and only if the object of your fear has given you immediate and justifiable reason to be afraid.
That 6ft 4inch, 350 lb White Zaddy staring at me so intensely from across the room probably just loves a delicious caramel swirl. And I'm NOT afraid of the swirl.
I'm certainly not going to pre-judge him or his entire race based on...nothing. That's abject lunacy.

That said, if he sends across any other drink besides rum...it's annihilation. Let me be clear, for him and only him.

Yeah, I’m sure the idea of “It’s ok to be afraid.” is one example of nuance that I think could reasonably be explored assuming the writers commit to it enough.

[anyajenkins]

...you guys hanging around people who are trying to pick fights with giant, muscle-y dudes? You hanging out with some crazy types...lol...

[Devaishwarya]

Yeah, I’m sure the idea of “It’s ok to be afraid.” is one example of nuance that I think could reasonably be explored assuming the writers commit to it enough.

That seems to be the pin on which any and all race-relations discussions (and writing) is hinged. Just how committed are the involved parties to having open dialogue, mutual understanding and a willingness to enact change?

In comic books, unless they are willing to give over a significant part of their planned story to properly and objectively depict the varied nuanced positions of race-relations most writers will just lightly address the issue(s) giving it limited page and panel space...as we've seen with Claremont...as it's relevant within the frame work of the story already being told.

[Zelena]

That seems to be the pin on which any and all race-relations discussions (and writing) is hinged. Just how committed are the involved parties to having open dialogue, mutual understanding and a willingness to enact change?

In comic books, unless they are willing to give over a significant part of their planned story to properly and objectively depict the varied nuanced positions of race-relations most writers will just lightly address the issue(s) giving it limited page and panel space...as we've seen with Claremont...as it's relevant within the frame work of the story already being told.

Usually, in comics, it's more: there is no reason to be afraid when it is about various "races" and construction of the "Other"… How many races, alien, all colors, often, in the same team, does the reader meet through various readings. And, unless, it is the subject of the story, no one seems to bother… So, the subject is treated as a description of an ideal, by omission.



But, when the story is about mind-controllers, people with laser-beams, reality-warpers, the utopia would be there is a cohabitation with no one batting an eyelash?

In real life, Krakoa would be to me the perfect solution for this kind of problem… After all, most of the mutants are children of humans and a war between mutants and humans would be nothing less than an endless civil war.

[Devaishwarya]

...and yet, while Krakoa is being presented as part of the solution, at least for mutants, the real deep seated race issues between mutants and humans are still not given the in-depth, nuanced, committed treatment.

And I'm really okies with that. I've not been reading X-Men all these decades to see the human/mutant race war exposited and resolved. certainly

[Electricmastro]

...and yet, while Krakoa is being presented as part of the solution, at least for mutants, the real deep seated race issues between mutants and humans are still not given the in-depth, nuanced, committed treatment.

And I'm really okies with that. I've not been reading X-Men all these decades to see the human/mutant race war exposited and resolved. certainly

I mean, going along with the idea that mutants like Professor X reflect Martin Luther King, who’s to say that having any sort of progress is the same as “Ok, prejudice is 100% gone, so all minorities will be forever safe.”? I’m certainly sure that Martin Luther King, while not completely eliminating prejudice from the world, still certainly helped build bridges between the white people and the black people in a way that whites and blacks can live together as equals in American societies, in spite of the prejudice that exists today, or am I wrong in my optimism and that truthfully, Martin Luther King made 0% progress? To take another, yet surely relevant, step further, are franchises like Star Trek, which consistently showcase living beings of different species working together as equals, wrong in its optimism as well?

[Devaishwarya]

That's why I don't like correlating what's written in the comics with our real-world...regardless of how the analogy is presented, one or the other ends up being seriously lacking when compared.

IRL...yes, there has been progress in race relations but it's still very much alive and well in the US. Globally, there are growing race-tensions/conflicts/genocides among and towards other "powerless" ethnic minorities. It's extended far beyond White vs black...so, can that really be considered progress for humanity?

ICB...despite a very few bright moments, the struggle between humans and mutants is/has been constant and never-ending...there hasn't been any "progress"of which to speak.

The only connection between IRL annd ICB is the fact that the struggle is never-ending...and yet, that dismal fact does not in any way devalue the equality and optimism Star Trek projects. As it's another aspect of race-relations that's worthy of exploration (probably even more so than the violent struggles, for being the hopeful possibility).

[marhawkman]

To take another, yet surely relevant, step further, are franchises like Star Trek, which consistently showcase living beings of different species working together as equals, wrong in its optimism as well?

Well as someone IN Star Trek pointed out the real glue that holds the Federation together is the knowledge that working together is the only way they can fight their enemies. So it's like that old saying about how the easiest way to unite people is to give them a common enemy.

[Devaishwarya]

Well as someone IN Star Trek pointed out the real glue that holds the Federation together is the knowledge that working together is the only way they can fight their enemies. So it's like that old saying about how the easiest way to unite people is to give them a common enemy.

...Just like the Mutants living on Krakoa. *wink*

[marhawkman]

...Just like the Mutants living on Krakoa. *wink*

True, but how to get them to unite with groups like FoH? Well... something like Secret Invasion as an on-going war, or the Prison Planet event where an external force threatens both.

[Electricmastro]

True, but how to get them to unite with groups like FoH? Well... something like Secret Invasion as an on-going war, or the Prison Planet event where an external force threatens both.

Yeah, like if an alien race like the Kree, but even more hostile, invaded Earth to the point of not discriminating between humans and mutants and persecuted them all, perhaps one could convincingly see alliances, not like smaller ones like mutant Molly Hayes allying with the human Runaways, but perhaps on an even bigger scale with a few human politicians, even if they do treat it as “the lesser of two evils.” And while not completely eliminating prejudice, I could see that adding more conflicted feelings and complexities within many of the humans in the Marvel Universe, which could make for more interesting stories.

After all, it was the actions of the Beyonder is what motivated the human heroes and mutant heroes to work together.