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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    You're correct on the Iceman thing. That's it. When has Storm lost control of her powers causing massive loss of human lives? Apocalypse and Sinister never have never targetted humans. Sabretooth is your run of the mill serial killer. None of this justifies the persecution of an entire race. Even if you were right on all accounts that would still amount to a dozen of individuals at most.
    To some folks it is.

    It's why you see painting of certain groups in a certain light a constant thing.
    It's why you got news reporters say "fear a black boy in a hoodie and skinny jeans"

    For the most part any attack on humans by a mutant have been defeated by other mutants for the most part. Despite being listed as a group to fear and wipe out by certain human groups. Despite guys like Galactus running around or Carnage going nuts on New York.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    To some folks it is.
    We have a word for these folks. Its bigots.

  3. #78
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Mutants aren't just perceived as a threat, their powers actually are dangerous to everybody around them and the comics have always gone out of their way to show us that humans are entirely justified in fearing them. Beyond that, we've also seen that mutant society has a pretty rigid internal hierarchy, where the "pretty" mutants with potent power sets lord over the ugly and deformed ones, and this is often played for laughs rather than for the extremely troubling eugenicist implications it actually carries.
    Any halfwit in the States can buy a semi-automatic weapon and be just as dangerous as Cyclops. But as long as they're white, they're lionized as defending freedom by 50% of the country.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    We have a word for these folks. Its bigots.
    So are the people who advocate for human genocide are bigots?

  5. #80
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfish View Post
    Between tying citizen rights to possessing the proper genes and fertility promoted by law, Isreal is not the nation that comes to my mind when drawing real life parallels from Krakoan policies.
    That sounds exactly like Israel tbh.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    So are the people who advocate for human genocide are bigots?
    You mean Apocalypse? Who again, is the only one advocating for human genocide. Yeah you can call him that.

  7. #82
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    You mean Apocalypse? Who again, is the only one advocating for human genocide. Yeah you can call him that.
    I meant on this forum.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I meant on this forum.
    Facetious.... Satirists??
    GrindrStone(D)

  9. #84
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    Who was the poster that was concerned Hickman's take on the XMen was going to lead pro mutant readers to attack people in comic shops and result in a race war? I feel we need their input.

  10. #85
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Facetious.... Satirists??
    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Who was the poster that was concerned Hickman's take on the XMen was going to lead pro mutant readers to attack people in comic shops and result in a race war? I feel we need their input.
    I find both of these coming one after another ironic.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Except for Iceman causing a winter apocalypse, Sabretooth killing hundreds in his lifetime, the entire Phoenix Force 5 debacle, the Phoenix in general, all of the times Storm freaked out and nearly destroyed the world with her powers, the multiple mass mind control plans, Apocalypse and Sinister in general....

    It doesn't even have to result in a high body count for mutants to be terrifying. I'm not going to dig through the entire X history and point out every time a mutant wrecked stuff.
    Eh no different than the many humans who have created mass destruction with their big super scientist brains. Or stealing reed technology or stark or anyone elses. Humans have created far more willful destruction in the marvel u than mutants. And don't even get me started on the people who do mass shootings in real life. We aren't afraid of all of them either. But you can't change someones personal gravitation to fear. People will be afraid of what they want to be and see the best in what thye want to. *shrugs.*
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Eh no different than the many humans who have created mass destruction with their big super scientist brains. Or stealing reed technology or stark or anyone elses. Humans have created far more willful destruction in the marvel u than mutants. And don't even get me started on the people who do mass shootings in real life. We aren't afraid of all of them either. But you can't change someones personal gravitation to fear. People will be afraid of what they want to be and see the best in what thye want to. *shrugs.*
    The issue isn't that mutant powers are dangerous, especially given that crazy stuff happens in comics and is mostly ignored, it's that the stories themselves play up this idea that mutant powers are inherently unstable and are difficult to control even for experienced heroes. On top of this, the narrative treats suppressing ones powers as almost akin to staying in the closet and hiding your true self, while just cutting loose and wrecking stuff is portrayed as liberating and cathartic, which totally makes sense until you stop to consider all the bystanders who are going to get hurt in the process. For example, Cyclops' visor is sort of symbolic of his repressed nature and the destructive power of bottled up frustrations, something that is so central to his character that he will never be allowed to bring it under control, this is the sort of cloth that serial killers are cut from and in the real world someone like him would never be allowed to live free of some kind of supervision, much less be put in a position of authority.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 11-08-2019 at 05:57 PM.

  13. #88
    Fantastic Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The issue isn't that mutant powers are dangerous, especially given that crazy stuff happens in comics and is mostly ignored, it's that the stories themselves play up this idea that mutant powers are inherently unstable and are difficult to control even for experienced heroes. On top of this, the narrative treats suppressing ones powers as almost akin to staying in the closet and hiding your true self, while just cutting loose and wrecking stuff is portrayed as liberating and cathartic, which totally makes sense until you stop to consider all the bystanders who are going to get hurt in the process. For example, Cyclops' visor is sort of symbolic of his repressed nature and the destructive power of bottled up frustrations, something that is so central to his character that he will never be allowed to bring it under control, this is the sort of cloth that serial killers are cut from and in the real world someone like him would never be allowed to live free of some kind of supervision, much less be put in a position of authority.
    They also have a habit of treating any kind of restriction on their powers or the use thereof as a terrible curse or government overreach that's a precursor to genocide (which it is, because everything always leads to massacres in these books). There's never any grey area, like requiring mutant criminals to take X-gene cures or putting inhibitors on someone like Iceman or Storm so they don't accidentally end the world on a bad day. The only real exception seems to be Rouge.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I think the X-men have suffered because the aspect of them being used as a stand in for minorities has been overused, to the point that being an embattled minority group has been all they have been/done for the last 10-15 years.

    The X-men have had the longstanding problem of 'embodying' minorities while not actually representing them. Like using language and images of the Civil Rights movement while having black mutants that could be counted on one hand. Throwing 'Mutant Pride' events while having almost no gay representation, and barely using them anyway. And the metaphor falls apart when you factor in superpowers. Being afraid and hating people just because they are black/gay/whatever is stupid and irrational. Being afraid of mutants because they can mind control the world and rewrite reality is at least rational. Now that's no excuse for lynching people who can make things glow or look like a lizard. But at this point, even the 'good' mutants have caused a ton of collateral damage and have been doing more and more questionable things in the name of survival that its not hard to see why the public wouldn't care about the distinction.

    I think its a weakness to their ability to embody minorities that mutants can vary so wildly. They're kind of used as a one-size-fits-all stand in for minority groups, but when mutants run the gamut from 'looks totally average' to 'brain in a jar' and 'weird Cronenburg alien monster' and 'horrifying disembodied eldritch abomination' it kind of muddies things
    I suppose one has to consider the possibility at some point as to whether or not the X-Men had suffered because that aspect had been overused, and all they have been/done for the last 10-15 years like you mentioned, pigeonholing them in regards to what kinds of stories could be told despite the best efforts from the writers. Even in the era shortly after Days of Future Past, Claremont wrote a mutant fairy tale in issue 153 and ninja battles in issue 173, and seemed to reinforce how there was very much still a good place for a good amount of fun in the X-Men stories.

    And yeah, even with there being black and gay mutants, the subject of "mutants with dangerous superpowers who could dominate and enslave others" never seems to fully go away, and may lead to any metaphor falling apart because of that sort of elephant of paranoia in the room.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 11-08-2019 at 07:57 PM.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    They also have a habit of treating any kind of restriction on their powers or the use thereof as a terrible curse or government overreach that's a precursor to genocide (which it is, because everything always leads to massacres in these books). There's never any grey area, like requiring mutant criminals to take X-gene cures or putting inhibitors on someone like Iceman or Storm so they don't accidentally end the world on a bad day. The only real exception seems to be Rouge.
    Because the government IS often out to kill all mutants. General Callahan was under direct orders from the Secretary of Defense to kill as many mutants as possible. The instant the X-Men went away, Congress passed a law enacting the full eugenic genocide of mutants. I wouldn't trust the government to dole out X-Gene cures the same way I wouldn't trust the KKK to oversee criminal executions.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

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