How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Steel Inquisitor]

All I suggest is a sign that the X Men aren't spinning their wheels. I know they are stuck in a status quo, but until Hickman entered the picture all X Men stories were stuck in an endless loop. Spider Man is making progress with MJ at least. The Avengers are trying to make a better place for everyone to live in. I fear that once Hickman is gone we go back to stories were mutants will end up in unavoidable death camps again because of the fact they must always be hated and feared.

This is because this is serialised comic books, and Marvel isn't going to accidentally discover the solution to racism or oppression, as well as the fact they know they can't change the niche X-men fill in the Marvel universe with Claremont. Allowing Xavier's dream to come true will destroy the relevancy of X-men as a popular franchise.

The loop continues with Hickman, all he did was put them on another island, Krakoa is Utopia 2.0. The X-men transferred from being hard and feared in a mansion to being hated and feared on an island. Hickman's simply taking a new direction with old ideas.

Again, this is mainstream super-hero comic books. Status quo's are modified they don't truly end.

Edit: Plus humans are even more paranoid about the drug system with Kraoka to they point they were killing humans supporting mutants in X Force.

That's just the status quo in X-line, bigots will be bigots and Krakoa isn't helping sooth fears.

[BroHomo]

All I suggest is a sign that the X Men aren't spinning their wheels. I know they are stuck in a status quo, but until Hickman entered the picture all X Men stories were stuck in an endless loop. Spider Man is making progress with MJ at least. The Avengers are trying to make a better place for everyone to live in. I fear that once Hickman is gone we go back to stories were mutants will end up in unavoidable death camps again because of the fact they must always be hated and feared. Edit: Plus humans are even more paranoid about the drug system with Kraoka to they point they were killing humans supporting mutants in X Force.

I wasn't calling you out personally if thats what you think dude!

That's just the status quo in X-line, bigots will be bigots and Krakoa isn't helping sooth fears.

And it shouldn't, it's not on mutants to live their lives as to not offend any racist bigots.

[Devaishwarya]

All I suggest is a sign that the X Men aren't spinning their wheels. I know they are stuck in a status quo, but until Hickman entered the picture all X Men stories were stuck in an endless loop. Spider Man is making progress with MJ at least. The Avengers are trying to make a better place for everyone to live in. I fear that once Hickman is gone we go back to stories were mutants will end up in unavoidable death camps again because of the fact they must always be hated and feared. Edit: Plus humans are even more paranoid about the drug system with Kraoka to they point they were killing humans supporting mutants in X Force.

But they are not not just "spinning their wheels".
The establishment of Krakoa: Mutant Nation (Genosha, Utopia) suggests that they and HiX-Man are moving the narrative forward...attempting to, at the very least.
It may not be the vehicle we would like to see driven or the road taken but the X-Car is definitely not sitting stationary at the side of the road out in the middle of nowhere.

[marhawkman]

And it shouldn't, it's not on mutants to live their lives as to not offend any racist bigots.

As a wise man once said "you can't please everyone." No matter what you do someone will dislike it simply because what they want doesn't align with what you want or what that other guy over there wants. It's literally impossible to please everyone because it means doing multiple different things at the same time.

[Steel Inquisitor]

And it shouldn't, it's not on mutants to live their lives as to not offend any racist bigots.

It's not about the bigots, it's about appealing to the non-bigots rather than writing off all of humanity and making sure every human knows peace can be found with them rather than making the spokesman someone who personally killed an unknown amount of innocent people in his latest attempt to conquer the world. And their stock will plummet further when the world discovers Krakoa became a haven for mutant super-villains like Selene and Apocalypse. Mutants can live their lives peacefully without personally murdering any innocent humans within their vicinity, now Krakoa makes them high ranking members in their government. Despite Moira X's game plan for trying to save mutants from a war with humanity Krakoa undermines this goal from its foundations.

[Veitha]

It's not about the bigots, it's about appealing to the non-bigots rather than writing off all of humanity and making sure every human knows peace can be found with them rather than making the spokesman someone who personally killed an unknown amount of innocent people in his latest attempt to conquer the world. And their stock will plummet further when the world discovers Krakoa became a haven for mutant super-villains like Selene and Apocalypse. Mutants can live their lives peacefully without personally murdering any innocent humans within their vicinity, now Krakoa makes them high ranking members in their government. Despite Moira X's game plan for trying to save mutants from a war with humanity Krakoa undermines this goal from its foundations.

And that is exactly what's happening.

Your argument makes little sense if you put it into context. You say that the X-Men should appeal to humans, but after years of bigotry, killings, experiments and genocide it is very a lot to ask them to please humans. They should put their survival and their happiness below the need of humans to feel safe and included?

[Steel Inquisitor]

And that is exactly what's happening.

For the non-dangerous mutants it is, but they're not who we're discussing. You and I both know we're discussing the monsters who don't fit that description.

Your argument makes little sense if you put it into context. You say that the X-Men should appeal to humans, but after years of bigotry, killings, experiments and genocide it is very a lot to ask them to please humans. They should put their survival and their happiness below the need of humans to feel safe and included?

My context is fine, don't twist what I'm saying as if every mutant on Krakoa are harmless, there are numerous criminals there who have not be bought to justice for their crimes against humanity and other mutants, many got promotions to the highest ranks in government. Your argument only makes sense as if Hickman's run is outside the Marvel universe and none of the X-villains committed any crimes before moving to the island, with we both know is untrue. Don't generalise all of humanity by the mutant bigots, as if that includes every living human in Marvel. Thats disingenuous. It's true various humans have done that but those crimes could be levied at numerous Krakoans, your argument implies that those activities are acceptable when done to humans when anyone who does it should pay for their crimes. Your last sentence twists what I'm saying, as well. The idea is peace with humanity, not domination by either species - which happens by both coming together and for that to happen it requires not frightening off the sane humans.

[Veitha]

For the non-dangerous mutants it is, but they're not who we're discussing. You and I both know we're discussing the monsters who don't fit that description.

I haven't seen Sinister do anything bad to humans since being on Krakoa.

My context is fine, don't twist what I'm saying as if every mutant on Krakoa are harmless, there are numerous criminals there who have not be bought to justice for their crimes against humanity and other mutants, many got promotions to the highest ranks in government. Your argument only makes sense as if Hickman's run is outside the Marvel universe and none of the X-villains committed any crimes before moving to the island, with we both know is untrue. Don't generalise all of humanity by the mutant bigots, as if that includes every living human in Marvel. Thats disingenuous. It's true various humans have done that but those crimes could be levied at numerous Krakoans, your argument implies that those activities are acceptable when done to humans when anyone who does it should pay for their crimes. Your last sentence twists what I'm saying, as well. The idea is peace with humanity, not domination by either species - which happens by both coming together and for that to happen it requires not frightening off the sane humans.

Your context is not fine if you ignore how humanity sees mutants in the MU and how they treated mutants in the past. You're ignoring all the instances of humanity being bad towards mutants in the past, which are a lot. It would be naive to think that the X-Men would be okay with playing superheroes while their children have been killed, experimented on and worse for years. This is a reaction against years and years of sufferance. In universe, most of humanity doesn't like mutants and humanity has done atrocious stuff to them. Add to that the fact that Moira has 9 lives of knowledge (circa) about humans killing mutants and you've got the current scenario.

I never said that genocide is okay when a mutant does it. Current alliances are done because mutants have an agenda and are willing to cross lines because humans have pushed them to do it. Sinister (I've said it a hundred times at this point) is crucial for Resurrections and they've taken precautions with him.

You're deflecting everything towards the villains on the island and you also say that mutants should act nicely to humans because that's the moral thing to do. Was it moral to vaccinate human children or send Sentinels to kill mutants? No. And yet we see the X-men being very nice towards humanity while also (finally) demanding some respect.

[BroHomo]

I haven't seen Sinister do anything bad to humans since being on Krakoa.



Your context is not fine if you ignore how humanity sees mutants in the MU and how they treated mutants in the past. You're ignoring all the instances of humanity being bad towards mutants in the past, which are a lot. It would be naive to think that the X-Men would be okay with playing superheroes while their children have been killed, experimented on and worse for years. This is a reaction against years and years of sufferance. In universe, most of humanity doesn't like mutants and humanity has done atrocious stuff to them. Add to that the fact that Moira has 9 lives of knowledge (circa) about humans killing mutants and you've got the current scenario.

I never said that genocide is okay when a mutant does it. Current alliances are done because mutants have an agenda and are willing to cross lines because humans have pushed them to do it. Sinister (I've said it a hundred times at this point) is crucial for Resurrections and they've taken precautions with him.

You're deflecting everything towards the villains on the island and you also say that mutants should act nicely to humans because that's the moral thing to do. Was it moral to vaccinate human children or send Sentinels to kill mutants? No. And yet we see the X-men being very nice towards humanity while also (finally) demanding some respect.

Yas! Lord this is a great response to whatever tiptoeing inoffensive drivel masked as morality other folks are trying to sell

[Veitha]

Yas! Lord this is a great response to whatever tiptoeing inoffensive drivel masked as morality other folks are trying to sell

Thanks. I feel like there's some double standard when it comes to the X-Men. Like, it's all good if they suffer but act like superheroes but if they fight back they're villains.

[Devaishwarya]

Thanks. I feel like there's some double standard when it comes to the X-Men. Like, it's all good if they suffer but act like superheroes but if they fight back they're villains.

Well...when you put it like that...it's the most direct analogy to the sentiment on Black Americans and what's happening across America right now.

And in that light, I'm going to be looking at a few posters in here quite differently because if they can spout that rhetoric towards fictional characters...

[Veitha]

Well...when you put it like that...it's the most direct analogy to the sentiment on Black Americans and what's happening across America right now.

And in that light, I'm going to be looking at a few posters in here quite differently because if they can spout that rhetoric towards fictional characters...

It does right? I was thinking it was all in my head at first hahaha. Just think of what Scott told Sue in HoX #1.

[Electricmastro]

Well...when you put it like that...it's the most direct analogy to the sentiment on Black Americans and what's happening across America right now.

Well there are councils out there discussing, and even voting, to dismantle police departments on the belief that they’re impossible to reform for the better. I wonder how much that reflects councils in the Marvel Universe in regards to how they handle matters relating to mutants in light of Professor X gaining more weight to potentially change the tides for the better in regards to peaceful human/mutant relations and him winning more humans to his side in terms of politics, healthcare, and the economy. Very much becoming evident, though not all, that quite of a number people with some power aren’t seeing the minorities as villains as was previously mentioned.

[Devaishwarya]

It does right? I was thinking it was all in my head at first hahaha. Just think of what Scott told Sue in HoX #1.

Exactatiously!!!

[Wild Fang X]

To be honest, the only thing that I'm seeing from those criticizing Krakoa and how mutants conduct themselves is a mixture of the Tall Poppy Syndrome and the agreeable minority paradigm. Considering what both of those terms represent and the intent behind the suggestion that mutants should continue to kiss up to humanity as they continue to try and extinguish their very existence is a sentiment that disgusts me, honestly. I can't bring myself to respect those views, especially when the flatscans, including other heroes, have done absolutely nothing for mutantkind, but try to keep them "in their place".

Long story short: #NotAllFlatscans