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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow6743 View Post
    Can anyone tell me why Young Justice has two number 9s on the sales chart?
    A specific chunk of them were sold as Card Stock Variants, and was an extra dollar so they were counted separately.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucius121 View Post
    Not sure why the discussion turned into the issues with 5G, if anything these sales show the reason why 5G is necessary, clearly Clark, Bruce, Diana etc aren’t attracting new readers and existing readers are turning away. Going back to basics isn’t really a fix. Creating new heroes isn’t a fix so what is?

    Do you really think if the classic heroes we’re selling at an acceptable rate DC would even be considering 5G?
    I personally don't believe much of anything can save the publishing side of DC, but it has nothing to do with the characters.

    Do you realize Superman has had FIVE separate in-continuity origins in 15 years? That means every 3 years, they're resetting Superman's continuity. How can you develop a base readership or have fans care about these characters when you're turning over their history at that rate, especially with one of their more popular characters in Superman?

    I have no control over what DC does with these characters, of course. But I've said this already and I'll say it again. I've been collecting Superman comics for the better part of 30 years. I own every monthly Superman comic book published since 1985. If they replace Clark Kent as Superman, or Bruce Wayne as Batman, I'm out. I have no interest to read a character who isn't Superman being called Superman just because those in charge are bankrupt of ideas and are about to ruin the DCU to try to save their jobs. That's MY opinion on it, and maybe it'll be a huge success without my money. But I have a sneaking feeling that we're witnessing the end of DC Comics.

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    ....Do you realize Superman has had FIVE separate in-continuity origins in 15 years? That means every 3 years, they're resetting Superman's continuity. How can you develop a base readership or have fans care about these characters when you're turning over their history at that rate, especially with one of their more popular characters in Superman?....
    A valid point. Marvel, for all its faults, has maintained a more or less coherent continuity which is far easier for readers to follow than DC's tangle of competing, often contradictory timelines.
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-11-2019 at 01:57 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    A valid point. Marvel, for all its faults, has maintained a more or less coherent continuity which is far easier for readers to follow than DC's tangle of competing, often contradictory timelines.
    Well, and you'll get the argument "story trumps continuity", and I more or less agree with that to a degree.

    But there's something to be said that, as an example, Gwen's death still counts as originally written and depicted nearly FIFTY years ago in Spider-Man's universe. That's why Marvel has more good will with its fan base than DC has.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I think another indication of DC's weakness is the probable failure of Leviathan. No one I know in RL (who is into comics) cares about this event and there is little buzz online unlike with Marvel events such as Absolute Carnage or the X-Men soft reboot by way of comparison.
    I think this is pretty salient. The Bendis re-launch is just not the juggernaut that DC must have been hoping for, and the Snyder JL run has fallen off pretty hard, sales-wise. Other than limited stuff (Last Knight on Earth, Harleen, DCeased, White Knight), nothing at DC except King's Batman is doing anything of note. I'm not really going to contend that the last 5-6 months of King's Batman run has been his best work (and HiC sucked), but kicking him off Batman is looking sillier every month.
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  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    I think this is pretty salient. The Bendis re-launch is just not the juggernaut that DC must have been hoping for, and the Snyder JL run has fallen off pretty hard, sales-wise. Other than limited stuff (Last Knight on Earth, Harleen, DCeased, White Knight), nothing at DC except King's Batman is doing anything of note. I'm not really going to contend that the last 5-6 months of King's Batman run has been his best work (and HiC sucked), but kicking him off Batman is looking sillier every month.
    I agree that DC's faith in Bendis as their savior seems to be misplaced. I can't help but wonder, how much of his previous success at Marvel was because of him and how much was because Marvel Editorial exerted a level of oversight DC Editorial is either unwilling or unable to provide?

    I also think Bendis should have been given a street-level character. He might have done a bang-up job with Batman, or someone similar, but not Superman who is out of his wheelhouse.
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-11-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I agree that DC's faith in Bendis as their savior seems to be misplaced. I can't help but wonder, how much of his previous success at Marvel was because of him and how much was because Marvel Editorial exerted a level of oversight DC Editorial is either unwilling or unable to provide?

    I also think Bendis should have been given a street-level character. He might have done a bang-up job with Batman, or someone similar, but not Superman who is out of his wheelhouse.
    Oversight? Thatís not a word Marvel fans would use to describe Bendisí Marvel tenure lol. Bendisí Superman is fine, but giving him so many team books was idiotic, he should not be relaunching Young Justice AND LoSH. Marvel as a whole was in a really bad spot when Bendis came over and his USM won him lots of fans. The Avengers were C-Listers before he took them over. Adding Wolverine and Spidey was like adding Batman and Superman to the Titans, its not a surprise it sold so much better lol.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Another unfortunate thing about Snyder’s Justice League not doing so great is that the triumphant return of the JSA landed with a whimper. I think a lot of that can be blamed on Doomsday Clock. Part of the appeal of that book was the return of the Legion and JSA. With all the delays DC had to go ahead and bring them back in far less dramatic fashion.

    A year ago if someone told me that DC would be producing a Justice League book written by Snyder featuring a Crisis level event that effects the entire DCU and the story also has the return of the Justice Society, I would definitely expect it to be at least in the top 10.
    Last edited by Robotman; 11-11-2019 at 03:36 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I personally don't believe much of anything can save the publishing side of DC, but it has nothing to do with the characters.

    Do you realize Superman has had FIVE separate in-continuity origins in 15 years? That means every 3 years, they're resetting Superman's continuity. How can you develop a base readership or have fans care about these characters when you're turning over their history at that rate, especially with one of their more popular characters in Superman?

    I have no control over what DC does with these characters, of course. But I've said this already and I'll say it again. I've been collecting Superman comics for the better part of 30 years. I own every monthly Superman comic book published since 1985. If they replace Clark Kent as Superman, or Bruce Wayne as Batman, I'm out. I have no interest to read a character who isn't Superman being called Superman just because those in charge are bankrupt of ideas and are about to ruin the DCU to try to save their jobs. That's MY opinion on it, and maybe it'll be a huge success without my money. But I have a sneaking feeling that we're witnessing the end of DC Comics.
    I don't think so. I think the issue for DC is everyone from fans to store owners to management are still REFUSING to accept reality.

    This-

    clearly Clark, Bruce, Diana etc aren’t attracting new readers and existing readers are turning away.
    The folks who are-they are the MAIN ones being screwed over at DC-Wally, every Lantern not named Hal, Titans, Young Justice and others.
    Folks have to learn to accept that.

    Folks have to stop looking at characters as THREATS to what they like. Miles & Peter are working. Peter is still alpha dog but Miles is still around. That is what Green Lantern NEEDS to be. Not a war of fandoms.


    Creating new heroes isn’t a fix so what is?
    It is and using WHO You have are the solution. Luke Fox as Batman is not going to cut it. Investing in Luke as Batwing will. DC's issue is they are so QUICK to give up or not follow up.

    We don't need 15 different writers rewriting Superman's origin.
    Find the writer who can present a well done Wally West as the Blurr book and leave him alone.
    Find the writer who can take some UNSELLABLE and make them sell. Don't tell me it's not impossible when Priest did it with Black Panther. Bendis did it with Jessica Jones & Luke Cage. Fabian & Mark Bagley did it with New Warriors-1 new guy and castaways from other places. See Carol Danvers or Squirrel Girl.

    Marvel for all its MANY faults-tossed out a ton of books with more than replacement guys.

    America Chavez has 2 trades. How many does Vixen have?
    Sam Wilson has 6 (as himself & Cap). How many does John Stewart have?
    Moon Girl has 9 volumes. How many does Bumblebee have?
    Black Panther has 30+ trades. Only Kyle, Jason Rusch & Cyborg (with a case made for Catwoman & Nightwing) can boast more than 4.
    Miles Morales is starring (or starred in) 5 books for a few months. No character of color at DC can boast that.

    Dc's issue is they REFUSE to have faith in who they have beyond Batman and this select friends.

    I don't need a 50 issue run of Ted Kord-give me a 12 good to excellent issue one.
    I'll take a 6 issue mini starring Guy or Fire & Ice.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I don't think so.
    Well, as I stated, it's just how I feel. It's entirely possible that this 5G movement will be hugely successful and will attract huge fanfare. I won't be a part of it, but I'm certainly not the barometer of what fandom is or wants.

    I look at history, however, as an indicator. This failed with Marvel, which had much better talent AND better goodwill with fans than DC has had and currently has. And the same people who have been shown to fail with the DC product & characters for the better part of 10 years now (Brightest Day, New 52, DCYou, Rebirt, and now...) are spearheading this. And I just don't envision the medium being here in its current incarnation 10 years from now. All indicators prove otherwise. Given how far DC has fallen over the past few years, I just don't see how they can survive especially when all Warner Media cares about are the characters anyway, and they own those no matter what. For me, this is the last ditch effort of Didio & Lee to save their jobs and they're going to sink the DCU with them.

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Oversight? Thatís not a word Marvel fans would use to describe Bendisí Marvel tenure lol. Bendisí Superman is fine, but giving him so many team books was idiotic, he should not be relaunching Young Justice AND LoSH. Marvel as a whole was in a really bad spot when Bendis came over and his USM won him lots of fans. The Avengers were C-Listers before he took them over. Adding Wolverine and Spidey was like adding Batman and Superman to the Titans, its not a surprise it sold so much better lol.
    From what I understand Bendis has been given free rein at DC. My inside sources tell me if Bendis wants an idea to be featured he gets it unlike during his Marvel tenure where he had a filter. The DC Office is convinced Bendis is their savior and still believe so. But I digress. I've been advised not to post inside information by the mods because I'm unwilling to name my confidential sources.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    From what I understand Bendis has been given free rein at DC. My inside sources tell me if Bendis wants an idea to be featured he gets it unlike during his Marvel tenure where he had a filter. The DC Office is convinced Bendis is their savior and still believe so. But I digress as I've been advised not to post inside information by the mods because I'm unwilling to name my confidential sources.
    Well, I completely feel that he's been given free reign at DC regardless of whatever sources you may or may not have. What's been happening at DC since he took over is pretty clear of that.

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Well, I completely feel that he's been given free reign at DC regardless of whatever sources you may or may not have. What's been happening at DC since he took over is pretty clear of that.
    Don't get me wrong I'm not dogpiling on Bendis. I feel his meteoric rise is merely a symptom of deep problems at DC Comics (many of which others, including yourself, have already pointed out). I think (from what I've heard) the situation is far direr than many people assume.
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-11-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Don't get me wrong I'm not dogpiling on Bendis. I feel his meteoric rise is merely a symptom of deep problems at DC Comics (many of which others, including yourself, have already pointed out). I think (from what I've heard) the situation is far direr than many people assume.
    What's funny about this whole concept is Bendis isn't really doing anything noteworthy or new. I'm liking what I've read so far (I read in trade, so that's Man of Steel and the first collection of each title), but I'm not sitting here thinking, "Man, it was important to rush Jurgens' run out the door for this." I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but it sure seems like stuff is messed up - basic continuity stuff is getting dropped all over the place, runs just start and stop randomly, DC announces something then immediately goes back on it w/o explaining, etc. I love connective universe stuff, but I tend to buy much less when the "universe" doesn't actually connect or build on itself.
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  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    ....America Chavez has 2 trades. How many does Vixen have?
    Sam Wilson has 6 (as himself & Cap). How many does John Stewart have?
    Moon Girl has 9 volumes. How many does Bumblebee have?
    Black Panther has 30+ trades. Only Kyle, Jason Rusch & Cyborg (with a case made for Catwoman & Nightwing) can boast more than 4.
    Miles Morales is starring (or starred in) 5 books for a few months. No character of color at DC can boast that......
    As an aside, I wish someone talented who has a vision for her character and her rivals was given control of Vixen. Vixen, her backstory, her powerset, and her world have so much crazy untapped potential it is a travesty how the character is treated. The same thing goes for John Stweart, Bumblebee and Cyborg in recent years.
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-11-2019 at 05:33 PM.
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