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  1. #91

  2. #92
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    Oh lordT.

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  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    I fuckin screamed! Omg not Jean seeing Ororo in traditional repressive head coverings that shamed black women covering up their hair because of the perceptions around beauty. She makes sure to note that Ororo's name is meant to mean beauty, but she also sees Ororo with features commonly associated with the average black woman of full lips, a wide nose and deep brown eyes. Jean Grey has been leveling her brand of white feminists agendas against Ororo for quite some time.
    Can we be serious here? Race wasn't the primary reason Claremont wrote that scene. Dude is a highly noted BDSM enthusiast who wanted to slip some stuff under the radar. Ororo getting dominated and then seizing power is only his favorite kinky scenario ever. How many closeups of her sweat strewn face, eyes shut in denial, choke collar or other instrument applied, do we need for evidence?
    The woman in the shadows with the elegant sigh.
    What could a common man do to catch her eye?
    Her easy manner shames me, oh I hate myself so much!
    I tremble and I'm breathless and I'm begging for her touch.
    She sees my anguished urges but continues smirking by,
    If I dare to follow her, it's likely that I'll die.
    But even as she's feeding, as my body's torn apart,
    Will she think upon me kindly?
    When she slowly eats my heart?

  4. #94
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Can we be serious here? Race wasn't the primary reason Claremont wrote that scene. Dude is a highly noted BDSM enthusiast who wanted to slip some stuff under the radar. Ororo getting dominated and then seizing power is only his favorite kinky scenario ever. How many closeups of her sweat strewn face, eyes shut in denial, choke collar or other instrument applied, do we need for evidence?
    I can’t tell if you’re joking or not...

  5. #95
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    I can’t tell if you’re joking or not...
    I don't think he's joking because I agree: it's pretty clear Claremont is into BDSM.

    Tons of other stories corroborate this - excibit A: the hounds and Rachel Grey.

  6. #96
    Mighty Member tuck frump's Avatar
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    Funny enough none of the multiple villains who have tried to subjugate Storm over the years have ever drawn parallels to america's slavery. Only her bestie Jean did that. Claremont knew exactly what he was doing and if he wanted to play up the bdsm angle there was no need for the racist overtones since Jean was already in dominatrix attire and the action is happening in a bdsm club.

  7. #97
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    I don't think he's joking because I agree: it's pretty clear Claremont is into BDSM.

    Tons of other stories corroborate this - excibit A: the hounds and Rachel Grey.
    Ah yes. The only black woman on the team being bound up and hit around while being called a slave has absolutely not the primary reason for that scene happening.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Ah yes. The only black woman on the team being bound up and hit around while being called a slave has absolutely not the primary reason for that scene happening.
    I still can't get over the fact that Jean sees O roro with darker eyes, fuller lips and a wider nose. Sis really meant to hit home the fact that Ororo's beauty is unimpressive and ironic to her. Oop!

  9. #99
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    I still can't get over the fact that Jean sees O roro with darker eyes, fuller lips and a wider nose. Sis really meant to hit home the fact that Ororo's beauty is unimpressive and ironic to her. Oop!
    Right?? like Dam B!tch you the damn Burner of Universes yet you so salty you try to dismiss black beauty?????
    GrindrStone(D)

  10. #100
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Thunderbird View Post
    Mutants are a diverse lot and it would be naive to assume that they all think the same. It can be assumed that some are more hierarchical than others or have different viewpoints so do you think they should have a spectrum like the common left wing-right wing spectrum we apply to Western politics? Maybe it could revolve around viewpoints about humans or the possibility of social stratification based upon superpowers. Also, can the old left wing-right wing paradigm still apply to mutants?
    Yes, there should be.

    The idea that mutants are this monolithic legion of followers/worshippers of whatever Xavier is doing on Krakoa is naive at best.

    Mutants are humans, just as sapiens are humans.
    Therefore, variety and diversity among them, both physically and philosophically is not only expected, but very much a natural outcome from them living in society.

    I Don't really like the left-wing/right-wing division: from country to country it can be more or less pronounced, id est "left wing" in the US is light-years away from what "left wing" is in France for example, which can lead to confusion in exchanges like this.
    And even within the same country, it can wildly differ from era to era.

    That being said.

    Even if we go from the postulate that mutants would decide to build a society where only their kind would be part of, there would be divergences occuring naturally:

    - Physical appearance: mutants with the physical appearance of sapiens (Jean Grey) and mutants with partial to complete non-human features (Glob Herman).

    - Power sets: mutants with powerful powerset (Ororo), or useful powerset (Cypher) and mutants with useless powerset (Ugly John).

    - Background: mutants who used to live in nations with oppressive regimes, as opposed to mutants who lived in "free", "democratic" nations and, down the line, mutants who will be born and raise on Krakoa, without ever having experienced the outside world.

    And that's just three factors off the top of my head, leading to six, potentially seven sub-groups of mutants with a different experience of life right on that island. And I didn't dive into how genders would factor-in, or familial upbringing, or wealth, and so on and so forth…

    So I find it cute when people say the way Krakoa is set up is remotely believable, because "mutants all want to survive annihilation, right", therefore they become this uniformized group of people with this uniformized opinion (or lack thereof) on anything happening or done on Krakoa by what is, right now, the ruling class.
    But sadly, that's a fantasy.

    Wishful-thinking.

    No society ever worked like this, and mutant societies would be no different.

    The only Reason I could see why a new range of political Spectrum wouldn't be represented here would be if the writer was imposing purposefully the idea that, at the end of the day, comics are a vehicle for escapism, therefore Krakoa is MEANT to be that unbelievable, unnatural social utopia.

    I Don't think Hickman is that type of writer at all though, so I expect to see gradual splintering on Krakoa down the line.
    Last edited by People Of The Earth; Today at 03:38 AM.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    There would be divergences occuring naturally:

    - Physical appearance: mutants with the physical appearance of sapiens (Jean Grey) and mutants with partial to complete non-human features (Glob Herman).

    - Power sets: mutants with powerful powerset (Ororo), or useful powerset (Cypher) and mutants with useless powerset (Ugly John).

    - Background: mutants who used to live in nations with oppressive regimes, as opposed to mutants who lived in "free", "democratic" nations and, down the line, mutants who will be born and raise on Krakoa, without ever having experienced the outside world.


    So I find it cute when people say the way Krakoa is set up is remotely believable, because "mutants all want to survive annihilation, right", therefore they become this uniformized group of people with this uniformized opinion (or lack thereof) on anything happening or done on Krakoa by what is, right now, the ruling class.
    But sadly, that's a fantasy.

    Wishful-thinking.

    No society ever worked like this, and mutant societies would be no different.

    The only Reason I could see why a new range of political Spectrum wouldn't be represented here would be if the writer was imposing purposefully the idea that, at the end of the day, comics are a vehicle for escapism, therefore Krakoa is MEANT to be that unbelievable, unnatural social utopia.

    I Don't think Hickman is that type of writer at all though, so I expect to see gradual splintering on Krakoa down the line.
    Genosha wasn't like that.... Utopia wasn't
    GrindrStone(D)

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member Tazpocalapse's Avatar
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    Yeah i think it should come into play. I just don't buy this nicely fit together society of mutants some of which have clashed against each other in the past to now just be all willing sheep ready to follow.If survival is the endgame, would we not see multiple viewpoints of how this can be achieved. Here is a question does anyone think that some mutants might have more of a connection to their families or homelands?Anyway i could see The Hellfire Club becoming a catalyst for political divide. I think most members of the HFC would be right leaning. I'm hoping we get some realigning of ideologies, seeing Exodus being celebrated by young mutant children could be a great way to reintroduce some x-villians as sorta anti-heroes in the X-verse.

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazpocalapse View Post
    Yeah i think it should come into play. I just don't buy this nicely fit together society of mutants some of which have clashed against each other in the past to now just be all willing sheep ready to follow.If survival is the endgame, would we not see multiple viewpoints of how this can be achieved. Here is a question does anyone think that some mutants might have more of a connection to their families or homelands?Anyway i could see The Hellfire Club becoming a catalyst for political divide. I think most members of the HFC would be right leaning. I'm hoping we get some realigning of ideologies, seeing Exodus being celebrated by young mutant children could be a great way to reintroduce some x-villians as sorta anti-heroes in the X-verse.
    I doubt many have strong connections to their Homeland as most of countries in the 616 have laws and/or Sentinels to limit the power and freedom of Mutants
    GrindrStone(D)

  14. #104
    Astonishing Member Tazpocalapse's Avatar
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    That is very true. Now with most countries working with Krakoa to get the Krakoan plant could some countries begin to try to be more fair to mutants hoping to use them as bargaining chips. I could see some countries begin to offer sweet deals to mutants if they stay in the country and be a mutant representative\celebrity. With the new paradigm mutants could be a valuable resource as a sorta bargaining chip against Krakoa in the future. On the flipside countries not cooperating like Wakanda and Russia could form their own national mutant teams loyal to thier countries to combat the smuggling operations of the Mauraders. Or countries could follow the lead of Canada and form their own versions of Alpha Flight.

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