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  1. #46
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Porbably not, but in fairness fuck that person.
    Does that include the kids she did it front of? She could have at least waited until he was in the bathroom or something.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Does that include the kids she did it front of? She could have at least waited until he was in the bathroom or something.
    yes, screw them too.

    Mastermind didn't IMPOSE on Jean to treat Ororo as a slave. That was her own unhibited fantasy he gave shape to. You should probably go read the book Im not interested in doing a recap for each pious knight that is going to come to the defense of Jean's white innocence tonight.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    yes, screw them too.

    Mastermind didn't IMPOSE on Jean to treat Ororo as a slave. That was her own unhibited fantasy he gave shape to. You should probably go read the book Im not interested in doing a recap for each pious knight that is going to come to the defense of Jean's white innocence tonight.
    I read the book, it was a recreation of her slave-owning ancestor.

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Did someone on the site just say Magneto would be on the right?


  5. #50
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Online fans finding out in horror that the majority of X-fans are ideologically hard right will be an amazing recreation of that election night SNL skit with Dave Chapelle and Chris Rock.



    lol what skit tho...


    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I read the book, it was a recreation of her slave-owning ancestor.
    Hmmm I dont know seems kiiiiiiiinda convenient her ancestor's actions 200 years ago fit perfectly with the situation JGDP found herself in
    GrindrStone(D)

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post


    let me guess. It wasnt her fault and she didnt mean it.
    That's literally not her, it's the Phoenix force in a skin suit. Also, gross.
    The woman in the shadows with the elegant sigh.
    What could a common man do to catch her eye?
    Her easy manner shames me, oh I hate myself so much!
    I tremble and I'm breathless and I'm begging for her touch.
    She sees my anguished urges but continues smirking by,
    If I dare to follow her, it's likely that I'll die.
    But even as she's feeding, as my body's torn apart,
    Will she think upon me kindly?
    When she slowly eats my heart?

  7. #52
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Did someone on the site just say Magneto would be on the right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I read the book, it was a recreation of her slave-owning ancestor.
    ...... nvm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Did someone on the site just say Magneto would be on the right?

    Magneto is a monarchist.

  9. #54
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol what skit tho...

  10. #55
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    As long as we're all agreed the 05 vote conservative, from farthest to the right to closest to the center: Cyclops - Jean Grey - Angel - Iceman - Beast
    I will fight you lol There is no way Scott or Jean would be conservatives... if you mean U.S. republican style conservatives that is.

  11. #56
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post


    let me guess. It wasnt her fault and she didnt mean it.
    I know you are just trolling and I shouldn't engage with bad faith actors, but obviously Claremont was using this to show how bad Jean/Phoenix had become. The darkest thoughts coming forward... kind of like Onslaught was for Xavier or how they explained away Xavier's lust for a child Jean Grey (those inner dark thoughts we constantly fight against that are inside all of us, type of thing).

    Though I will say I do not blame this on Phoenix. Even by the retcon Phoenix copied Jean's mind and body, and a portion of Jean's consciousness was in there (ie. her essence), so people need to stop erasing Jean out of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix stories.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I will fight you lol There is no way Scott or Jean would be conservatives... if you mean U.S. republican style conservatives that is.
    CyCOP:
    - assaulted protesters during the Utopia protest
    - supports the death penalty (re: XForce)
    - tried to secede from the United States
    - set up a black site (Utopia) in which he tortured people of color (Bishop)

    He's a right wing propaganda machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I know you are just trolling and I shouldn't engage with bad faith actors, but obviously Claremont was using this to show how bad Jean/Phoenix had become. The darkest thoughts coming forward... kind of like Onslaught was for Xavier or how they explained away Xavier's lust for a child Jean Grey (those inner dark thoughts we constantly fight against that are inside all of us, type of thing).

    Though I will say I do not blame this on Phoenix. Even by the retcon Phoenix copied Jean's mind and body, and a portion of Jean's consciousness was in there (ie. her essence), so people need to stop erasing Jean out of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix stories.
    I see nothing in this post arguing that Jean is not racist, only excuses for her behavior.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    slaverjean.jpg

    oh man THIS scene...

    We spent a good 30 minutes discussing this at the DPS book club I attended. People bent over backward trying to make Jean into a victim of Mastermind, of the Phoenix, when the answer could simply be that Yes, Jean Grey is a little racist. Like almost everything, racism is a spectrum of behaviors and perceptions and you might as well acknowledge it. Jean was a privileged white woman who was a child in Pleasantville.

    Specifically though, this scene was written in the late 70s by a man who was coming of age in the 60s. Racism was an issue that wasn't fully deconstructed at the time, but I can appreciate the steps taken at the time.

    That said, we need to acknowledge that Jean had been slowly acknowledging the what her maturation into Phoenix meant. She wasn't just a telekinetic mutant anymore, she was a human woman with godlike power. If you release the id into that playground, OF COURSE you're going to see everyone else, friends, family, lovers, and authorities as less-than, smaller, and terribly limited. Now take that miasma and put it in an amplified illusion by Mastermind/White Queen and you get the paradigm of the Hellfire Club, where the aristocracy WAS better than everyone else, exploited people and held dominion over everything. She was miles above the other X-Men in terms of power and potential, and the illusion created a world where that was represented. Jean's little patriarchal racism refracted to became full-blown royal superiority.

  14. #59
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    CyCOP:
    - assaulted protesters during the Utopia protest
    - supports the death penalty (re: XForce)
    - tried to secede from the United States
    - set up a black site (Utopia) in which he tortured people of color (Bishop)

    He's a right wing propaganda machine.



    I see nothing in this post arguing that Jean is not racist, only excuses for her behavior.
    Oh I agree during a very specific era (RightClops) Cyke had a right wing turn and became Dick Cheny but those dark days are over. As for Jean I conceded in my post that Claremont was showing how dark she had became due to the manipulation by the hellfire club. Most people, unfortunately do have both explicit and implicit bias since we live in a word, society, and culture that constantly pushes messaging on us that unfortunately includes generalizations, stereotypes, prejudices, and the like against the "other" which always includes minorities, marginalized folks, etc.

    Leah Williams once tweeted about this panel and said she'd like to explore it further. Though in the story Jean was believing herself to be someone else (a character created by the manipulation from Mastermind), which was a big part of why Jean became Dark Phoenix though the manipulation of Phoenix/Jean is usually left out when folks discuss Dark Phoenix and it is usually discussed that Dark Phoenix is a natural extension of the Phoenix cycle (which it may or may not be).

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    It will be Robin all over again.
    Is that a good or bad thing?, Jason Todd's death was weird but it led into him being resurrected and becoming Red Hood which was good, so with the right writer(s) it could a be very cool concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Like almost everything, racism is a spectrum of behaviors and perceptions and you might as well acknowledge it. Jean was a privileged white woman who was a child in Pleasantville.
    So Jean is a suburban/Middle Class version of Emma Frost lol
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

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