Justice League (2017) - "Snyder Cut" - UPDATE November 2019

[Steel Inquisitor]

Idk I think you’ll find a lot of mixed emotions wherever you look. A lot of people like me for example just want Snyder to release his work. My view is that no matter what, if there’s an audience for it then it should be released. But there are some fans who see the movement as raising awareness for suicide prevention and they see Snyder being able to release it as a personal achievement for him. Then there are fans who interested in the Snyder Cut solely for the narrative and because they want to see what is different from Whedon’s version, and what could have been. It’s hard to say who the majority is in all of that because I think a lot of people feel all of those things, but I think what’s universal is the support for Snyder, so if this results in people clamoring for more Snyder DC stuff, it will really only go as far as Snyder himself wants. If he’s officially done after that then it would be hard for those fans to really have a voice. And right now I think there are a lot of people who are pushing for a David Ayer cut of Suicide Squad.

This completely side-steps the problem with the "movement" of Snyder fans, as if what they're done isn't worth acknowledging. Just because some Snyder fans are good isn't a reason to ignore the bad Snyder fans or Snyder himself. I don't now how many bad Snyder fans yet they are a loud contingent who speaks to us as though they speak for the entire fanbase. Snyder's been encouraging his fans, and not been shy about voicing his displeasure about his critics and WB, he hasn't been absent from this saga. When he called people who didn't like his work "virgins" how do you think the fanbase reacted to that?

[Elmo]

This completely side-steps the problem with the "movement" of Snyder fans, as if what they're done isn't worth acknowledging. Just because some Snyder fans are good isn't a reason to ignore the bad Snyder fans or Snyder himself. I don't now how many bad Snyder fans yet they are a loud contingent who speaks to us as though they speak for the entire fanbase. Snyder's been encouraging his fans, and not been shy about voicing his displeasure about his critics and WB, he hasn't been absent from this saga. When he called people who didn't like his work "virgins" how do you think the fanbase reacted to that?

I must correct you and say that he has generally been very absent from this saga. Aside from posting screencaps and VFX shots on social media he has never encouraged harassment of others or stated anything publicly about wanting the Snyder Cut released. What exactly are you thinking of where he voices his displeasure with WB?

Nobody’s ignoring the bad seeds in the Snyder cut movement. That’s one of the primary things all these threads are discussing. The thing is that there are toxic and negative sides in every movement and they will always be used against the movement to bring them down. Consider that and also how this isn’t just about a movie to some people, this is about a father who faced an unspeakable tragedy and was not able to release his work. Thousands of dollars were raised for charity because of this movement. Why should we ignore the bad Snyder fans? Because they did nothing aside from be annoying online and give the movement a bad name. The real fans? They wanted to help people. And their love for Snyder’s films brought them together to make positive actions.

Don’t take my word for it though.

https://www.cinemablend.com/soundtra...ey-for-charity

https://inktothepeople.com/releasethesnydercut-guy-hq

https://comicbook.com/dc/news/zack-s...sales-servers/

https://twitter.com/_DCWorld/status/1224027297059131395
https://twitter.com/TPZghcortes/stat...16696167915521
https://twitter.com/truthlovefaith/s...91868390014976
https://twitter.com/inktothepeople/s...82504707002375
https://twitter.com/RTSnyderCut/stat...29680726659072
https://twitter.com/raveryn/status/1121104657873625088
https://twitter.com/redcapenews/stat...44283955863552
https://twitter.com/willrowactor/sta...63722336104450
https://twitter.com/TPZghcortes/stat...50464347090944
https://twitter.com/BstonesH/status/1196120013536555009
https://twitter.com/RTSnyderCut/stat...42058507153414
https://twitter.com/LinaDep/status/1223819274768306176
https://twitter.com/LinaDep/status/1233945121567248386
https://twitter.com/inkedrescuer/sta...25717237161986
https://twitter.com/DrMemehattan/sta...08024444088326
https://twitter.com/LinaDep/status/1233945121567248386
https://twitter.com/RTSnyderCut/stat...87216934121472

[Wandering_Wand]

The words below aren't necessarily directed at anyone on this thread, per se. It's just something that's been on mind for a while, and especially most recently with what's gone on. Seeing there's still some of these sentiments being discussed here, I thought I'd throw in a little:


For every "bad" Snyder Cut person, there's been 5 on the other side of the fence calling the Snyders and us fans names and cursing us with every breath. THAT IS IS THE TRUTH.

To grovel on the point that "bullies won this" or "You Snyder fans are cultists, etc." (boy, that one is firing up even more since the announcement) while completely ignoring that there's been arguably more toxic people on the other side is beyond words. I want to say it's immature, ridiculous, etc. but those words don't quite capture the essence of what is effectively being obtusely one-sided.

I've been apart of the Snyder Cut movement since basically the day it started. I've been a DCEU fan since day one, through rain and shine. I've seen the crapheads of the Snyder Cut, and I always (as did the MAJORITY of us) condemned them and tried to reel them in the best we could. The very toxic Snyder Cut people are a small minority in the otherwise "larger than you probably think" Snyder Cut base, which is made up of casuals who simply believe in letting an artists work go out as intended and don't have real roots in the DCEU, to all out DC fan boys who happened to enjoy what Snyder was doing with the characters.

My point? Just as with every movement, group, party, etc. there are crazies. It's a fact of life. And to sit there and act like a minority speaks for everyone else is dishonest and it's quite clear that many people are clinging onto that notion as they haven't learned how to accept a loss like true sportsmen. It's like the dying gasp of a tyrant who has lost, but wants to give the middle finger to the people who knocked him down because it was the right thing to do.

If I had a nickel for every time I was insulted for supporting Snyder, or for every time I saw someone curse Zack and Debbie (or make fun of them after his daughter committed suicide), I'd have a few bucks, no joke. Let that sink in.

Everyone needs to quit being so venomous towards each other in life and on the Internet, period. But don't sit there and take this moment and try to scrub it with crap because you ended up being wrong about the extent of the Snyder Cut or because you're mad that a filmmaker you don't like gets to complete his vision. Take the L and walk away, don't watch his cut. Ignore the trolls or take them on. But you better be honest with yourselves and make sure you do it for both sides, like I did.

/endrant

[Frostbite883]

It's too late. I've already seen enough of Snyder's distorted view of the DC universe to understand nothing good can come of it.

Well, in the case of Zack Snyder's Justice League (rather than the DCEU films you already saw)..I'll use Wandering Wand's quote directed at you as a sort of word of advice.

Take the L and walk away, don't watch his cut.

Simple as that.

[Powerboy]

The words below aren't necessarily directed at anyone on this thread, per se. It's just something that's been on mind for a while, and especially most recently with what's gone on. Seeing there's still some of these sentiments being discussed here, I thought I'd throw in a little:


For every "bad" Snyder Cut person, there's been 5 on the other side of the fence calling the Snyders and us fans names and cursing us with every breath. THAT IS IS THE TRUTH.

To grovel on the point that "bullies won this" or "You Snyder fans are cultists, etc." (boy, that one is firing up even more since the announcement) while completely ignoring that there's been arguably more toxic people on the other side is beyond words. I want to say it's immature, ridiculous, etc. but those words don't quite capture the essence of what is effectively being obtusely one-sided.

I've been apart of the Snyder Cut movement since basically the day it started. I've been a DCEU fan since day one, through rain and shine. I've seen the crapheads of the Snyder Cut, and I always (as did the MAJORITY of us) condemned them and tried to reel them in the best we could. The very toxic Snyder Cut people are a small minority in the otherwise "larger than you probably think" Snyder Cut base, which is made up of casuals who simply believe in letting an artists work go out as intended and don't have real roots in the DCEU, to all out DC fan boys who happened to enjoy what Snyder was doing with the characters.

My point? Just as with every movement, group, party, etc. there are crazies. It's a fact of life. And to sit there and act like a minority speaks for everyone else is dishonest and it's quite clear that many people are clinging onto that notion as they haven't learned how to accept a loss like true sportsmen. It's like the dying gasp of a tyrant who has lost, but wants to give the middle finger to the people who knocked him down because it was the right thing to do.

If I had a nickel for every time I was insulted for supporting Snyder, or for every time I saw someone curse Zack and Debbie (or make fun of them after his daughter committed suicide), I'd have a few bucks, no joke. Let that sink in.

Everyone needs to quit being so venomous towards each other in life and on the Internet, period. But don't sit there and take this moment and try to scrub it with crap because you ended up being wrong about the extent of the Snyder Cut or because you're mad that a filmmaker you don't like gets to complete his vision. Take the L and walk away, don't watch his cut. Ignore the trolls or take them on. But you better be honest with yourselves and make sure you do it for both sides, like I did.

/endrant

I noticed from almost the first fan review I read of MoS that the reaction to it at times bordered on psychotic. It really goes both ways. However I think saying a vision that is not one's own means someone doesn't get the character or hates the character is more biased.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I must correct you and say that he has generally been very absent from this saga. Aside from posting screencaps and VFX shots on social media he has never encouraged harassment of others or stated anything publicly about wanting the Snyder Cut released. What exactly are you thinking of where he voices his displeasure with WB?

It's not like Snyder hasn't enjoyed being the centre of attention for the Snyder Cut or lambasting his critics both on the screen and with interviews. His presence is a shadow over the entire movement, and I don't recall him doing much in trying to quieten down his fanbase when they get toxic.

This is what Snyder said when Batman vs Superman wasn't well received. He's not good taking criticism, he takes it personally.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/za...on-1202053359/

“Oh like, ‘Batman killed a guy’. I’m like, ‘Really? Wake the f*** up,'” Snyder said. “So I guess that’s what I’m saying about, once you’ve lost your virginity to this fucking movie and then you come and say to me something like, ‘My superhero wouldn’t do that’, I’m like, ‘Are you serious?’ I’m like down the fucking road on that. You know what I mean?”

“It’s a cool point,” Snyder continued. “Look, I’m 100% fine with it. It’s a cool point of view to be like, ‘My heroes are still innocent. My heroes didn’t lie to America. My heroes didn’t embezzle money. My heroes didn’t commit any atrocities.’ I’m like, ‘That’s cool but you’re living in a fucking dreamworld.'”

Nobody’s ignoring the bad seeds in the Snyder cut movement. That’s one of the primary things all these threads are discussing. The thing is that there are toxic and negative sides in every movement and they will always be used against the movement to bring them down. Consider that and also how this isn’t just about a movie to some people, this is about a father who faced an unspeakable tragedy and was not able to release his work. Thousands of dollars were raised for charity because of this movement. Why should we ignore the bad Snyder fans? Because they did nothing aside from be annoying online and give the movement a bad name. The real fans? They wanted to help people. And their love for Snyder’s films brought them together to make positive actions.

Don’t take my word for it though.

Your last post ignored the toxic fanbase entirely and this one they barely rate a mention. There are negative sides to every fanbase, but they won't go away by ignoring that they're a problem and leaving the people who are attacked by them as a non-issue. This ins't about the thread, I was speaking specially about your posts about the subject. This isn't bringing down a "movement," and it's not a movement, they're not fighting from civil rights here it's about a directors cut about a more with super-heroes. It's a fandom. This isn't about outsiders trying to sabotage your efforts its'a bout acknowledging the and apples and the movement itself shutting them down because they make the fandom terrible when they decide to sit back and watch rather than hold them accountable. Otherwise it looks like approval that they do speak for the fandom.

Snyder's family has nothing to do with this, what happened was a tragedy but that's about Snyder himself not his fandom. It's great that they did that charity but it comes up shirt if they're not bothering to care about what the bad apples in their fandom attack anyone who disagrees with Snyder's vision as though it's a real war. You're downplaying how bad those fans are and aren't that concerned about taking them down a notch but the people they hurt are the ones who did something wrong.

They're nothing to you because you weren't a target for their wrath, that's not how it feels on the other side.

No-one's suggesting there aren't good people in the movement. The contention is that we shouldn't dismiss the bad ones, because they make the movement look bad by association.

[WebLurker]

I wonder if some of the contention between the pro-Synder Cut people and opposition is due to differing opinions where the line is drawn on how much influence "the fans" can and should have on the production process, if that makes any sense. Also, I think different people have different opinions on when the time has come for a piece of the fandom to accept that they've said their piece on what they want the Powers That Be to do.

[Elmo]

It's not like Snyder hasn't enjoyed being the centre of attention for the Snyder Cut or lambasting his critics both on the screen and with interviews. His presence is a shadow over the entire movement, and I don't recall him doing much in trying to quieten down his fanbase when they get toxic.

This is what Snyder said when Batman vs Superman wasn't well received. He's not good taking criticism, he takes it personally.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/za...on-1202053359/






Your last post ignored the toxic fanbase entirely and this one they barely rate a mention. There are negative sides to every fanbase, but they won't go away by ignoring that they're a problem and leaving the people who are attacked by them as a non-issue. This ins't about the thread, I was speaking specially about your posts about the subject. This isn't bringing down a "movement," and it's not a movement, they're not fighting from civil rights here it's about a directors cut about a more with super-heroes. It's a fandom. This isn't about outsiders trying to sabotage your efforts its'a bout acknowledging the and apples and the movement itself shutting them down because they make the fandom terrible when they decide to sit back and watch rather than hold them accountable. Otherwise it looks like approval that they do speak for the fandom.

Snyder's family has nothing to do with this, what happened was a tragedy but that's about Snyder himself not his fandom. It's great that they did that charity but it comes up shirt if they're not bothering to care about what the bad apples in their fandom attack anyone who disagrees with Snyder's vision as though it's a real war. You're downplaying how bad those fans are and aren't that concerned about taking them down a notch but the people they hurt are the ones who did something wrong.

They're nothing to you because you weren't a target for their wrath, that's not how it feels on the other side.

No-one's suggesting there aren't good people in the movement. The contention is that we shouldn't dismiss the bad ones, because they make the movement look bad by association.

and my question to you is why shouldn't we ignore those people? why do you want to so keenly focus on negativity? it's pointless to me because the movement was started with positive intentions and it succeeded. so what exactly is the point of saying "there were a lot of bad people in that movement" other than to discredit that movement?

I like that response about bvs. it also wasn't about how it wasn't well received, it was about people who challenged his portrayal of superheroes claiming he deviated from recognizable characterizations.

it's ok if you don't like Snyder my man. i don't really see the point of this at all. you say you're focusing on my posts, well look at my posts. I have an issue with people claiming that the whole movement was bad, and that WB is rewarding people who engage in harassment online; I take offense to that. for a movement that was so positive in its nature, i see literally no reason to talk about the bad people in that movement, unless we are talking about hurdles the movement went through to find success.

if you want to know my personal view, i simply feel that nobody's work or art or project of any kind should be hidden from the public. if it exists and at least one person will watch it, then it should be released. snyder shot a whole movie, people wanted him to finish his work. it's literally that simple.

[numberthirty]

and my question to you is why shouldn't we ignore those people? why do you want to so keenly focus on negativity? it's pointless to me because the movement was started with positive intentions and it succeeded. so what exactly is the point of saying "there were a lot of bad people in that movement" other than to discredit that movement?

I like that response about bvs. it also wasn't about how it wasn't well received, it was about people who challenged his portrayal of superheroes claiming he deviated from recognizable characterizations.

it's ok if you don't like Snyder my man. i don't really see the point of this at all. you say you're focusing on my posts, well look at my posts. I have an issue with people claiming that the whole movement was bad, and that WB is rewarding people who engage in harassment online; I take offense to that. for a movement that was so positive in its nature, i see literally no reason to talk about the bad people in that movement, unless we are talking about hurdles the movement went through to find success.

if you want to know my personal view, i simply feel that nobody's work or art or project of any kind should be hidden from the public. if it exists and at least one person will watch it, then it should be released. snyder shot a whole movie, people wanted him to finish his work. it's literally that simple.

The focus on that(along with holding onto that Snyder used a generic insult like it is a Italian Mob grudge...) just feels like it is another version of what is wrong with the whole "Fandom..." thing.

He said something dumb. You have the option of being above dealing with that fact by doing something dumb in return.

[GozertheGozarian]

Well, in the case of Zack Snyder's Justice League (rather than the DCEU films you already saw)..I'll use Wandering Wand's quote directed at you as a sort of word of advice.



Simply as that.

If it's bad, can I say 'I told you so' and gain a W?

[Username taken]

The focus on that(along with holding onto that Snyder used a generic insult like it is a Italian Mob grudge...) just feels like it is another version of what is wrong with the whole "Fandom..." thing.

He said something dumb. You have the option of being above dealing with that fact by doing something dumb in return.

Exactly.

I support Snyder finishing his vision but he hasn’t helped himself with some of the nonsense he’s put out.

Snyder said something very, very stupid and got called out for sad stupidity.

[Agent Z]

If it's bad, can I say 'I told you so' and gain a W?

Good or bad, you'll have no shortage of people who hate it already so it's arguably a win for you anyway.

[Agent Z]

This completely side-steps the problem with the "movement" of Snyder fans, as if what they're done isn't worth acknowledging. Just because some Snyder fans are good isn't a reason to ignore the bad Snyder fans or Snyder himself. I don't now how many bad Snyder fans yet they are a loud contingent who speaks to us as though they speak for the entire fanbase. Snyder's been encouraging his fans, and not been shy about voicing his displeasure about his critics and WB, he hasn't been absent from this saga. When he called people who didn't like his work "virgins" how do you think the fanbase reacted to that?

Again, the anti Snyder is just as if not more toxic and doesn't get called out half as much. Snyder mockingly referring to people as virgins is nothing compared to the venom he's been dealing with since MoS.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Again, the anti Snyder is just as if not more toxic and doesn't get called out half as much. Snyder mockingly referring to people as virgins is nothing compared to the venom he's been dealing with since MoS.

Denounce both, not ignore one of them because you think they're on your side. I haven't met any but I don't entertain the thought they those who go that far should just be ignored since they're not my problem. Snyder shouldn't be mocking anyone considering his power over that community, he's a full grown adult, it's been national news since Man of Steel so he has no excuses about not knowing about it. He should not to encourage trolls who will see it as a green light.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a7134131.html

She did criticise elements of the film, however, with one particular person disagreeing with Wolfe - this, we would like to point out, is allowed; what will not be tolerated is sending someone a death threat for holding an opinion, something a man named Kevin Valeem did to Wolfe via her Instagram account once the review had gone live.

It's great that Snyder was finally able to make his movie and the people who wanted it are getting it, too. But we can say that and acknowledge all the circumstances that lead to how we got here.

[Amadeus Arkham]

The hype among the faithful in the Release the Snyder Cut people. The ones wanting this to happen.



All this just smacks of a "be careful what you wish for; you just might get it" scenario, considering what we know about the stuff Snyder leaked, his past DCEU movies, and the like. I guess I'm just wondering if the movie will be worth it as a movie (let alone all the fan activity that went on up to the point that WB decided it was worth their while to finish it).

I actually think it will live up to the hype to many simply because the Snyder version(for better or worse) will offer a very different experience than what you got in the theatrical cut. This isn’t like, say, Spider-Man 2.1 where there’s just a couple extended scenes and deleted scenes and it’s largely the same movie only a little longer. Snyder’s version is likely to be really different from what you saw in the theaters. Judging from what has been seen leaked from Snyder’s cut, his version has quite a few major plot differences(as well as cut backstories) and is essentially almost a different movie. After all, Snyder himself said that probably about 10% of what he shot made it into the version you saw in theaters. Not to mention, the Snyder version likely is the more serious, ambitious cut that is more consistent with the style his fans loved in both MOS and BVS.

Now whether the Snyder cut lives up to the hype is entirely up to the viewer but at the very least even it isn’t widely perceived as “good” it will be seen as way more interesting than what was seen in theaters, and that’s more than worthy of the hype for me and many others.