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  1. #31
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Amusingly, OWoD New World Order mage makes up some BS about her being artificial life and still hacks her.

    ...although this being DBZ, she can probably shrug it off by flexing her Ki or something.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  2. #32
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    Well, we know the closest equivalent DBZ has to oWoD magic operates on a much higher scale and can effectively be denied by having strong ki. For that matter, it seems a bit like the rules of oWoD magic might fall in favour of the DBZ character unless you start getting a lot more Technocracy resources involved. I'm not super familiar with Mage (mainly vampire and werewolf are the splats I was into), but IIRC a lot of oWoD magic and paradox stuff hinges on consensus reality and the Technocracy works to manipulate what that amounts to, yeah? So assuming just a single mage is involved, I feel like trying to mess with 18, even if the mage can get past whatever defense against reality manipulation she has, amounts to trying to argue that magic could beat Goku with SuperSaiyajin8TrunksFan69. Seems like there'd be a solid wall of paradox requiring a more concerted effort to overcome there to me.

    But like I said, I'm only loosely familiar with Mage
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  3. #33
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Paradox isn't the issue; it doesn't work like that. Paradox isn't about people believing that the mage can mind control 18. That's not 'consensual reality'. Paradox is 'Consensual reality sez people can't do Mind Control, so good luck with that'.

    Technocrats (specifically the members of the Technocratic Union, aka 'The Technocracy') get past this by controlling consensus and having all kinds of ways around it -- they're (far) less affected by Paradox, but as a trade-off can't pull off really vulgar crap easily. A New World Order mage would have a variety of different tech pieces (foci) and use various procedures (read, 'effects') to try to control 18 in subtle ways, likely over time, and claim it was possible due to 18 being 'artificial', plus nanotechnologies, plus whatever other crap they had decided to 'use'. It would, however, in the end be actual Mind Reality Alteration (aka magic).

    As noted, though, in DBZ 'being powerful' allows people to just shrug crap off, so....

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    ...although this being DBZ, she can probably shrug it off by flexing her Ki or something.
    ^_^

    You'd probably need to go up to an Oracle level being if DBZ people can just ignore mind control with straight 'power'.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 11-18-2019 at 09:59 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  4. #34

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    Do the Androids even use traditional Ki?
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  5. #35
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Do the Androids even use traditional Ki?
    Ki, power, whatever. They is big and powerful, and laugh at puny mage. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Ki, power, whatever. They is big and powerful, and laugh at puny mage. ^_^
    Oh, not arguing. Just curious. :P
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  7. #37
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Oh, not arguing. Just curious. :P
    I confess to having no real idea. My exposure to DB has been limited.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Do the Androids even use traditional Ki?
    They've never been noted to not do so, #19 and #20 got more powerful by absorbing ki from people, Cell had regular ki and got more powerful by assimilating #17 and #18, and #17 and #18 can contribute to stuff like spirit bombs. So all evidence says yes.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    They've never been noted to not do so, #19 and #20 got more powerful by absorbing ki from people, Cell had regular ki and got more powerful by assimilating #17 and #18, and #17 and #18 can contribute to stuff like spirit bombs. So all evidence says yes.
    Fair enough. I guess I was thinking the "we can't sense them" thing might have implied something, but I suppose even the Trio De Dangers had that trick.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  10. #40
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    I think it probably has to do with however they generate it. Whatever the engine they have IS, it's clearly extremely efficient, so they might just be something like a smokeless fire, not giving off anything extraneous to be detectable.
    I swim through a sea of stars
    Without looking back to shore
    Faster than light, bending time

    Forever
    Wherever

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