Weakest Technopaths that can hack Android 18

[Sharpandpointies]

Amusingly, OWoD New World Order mage makes up some BS about her being artificial life and still hacks her.

...although this being DBZ, she can probably shrug it off by flexing her Ki or something.

[BitVyper]

Well, we know the closest equivalent DBZ has to oWoD magic operates on a much higher scale and can effectively be denied by having strong ki. For that matter, it seems a bit like the rules of oWoD magic might fall in favour of the DBZ character unless you start getting a lot more Technocracy resources involved. I'm not super familiar with Mage (mainly vampire and werewolf are the splats I was into), but IIRC a lot of oWoD magic and paradox stuff hinges on consensus reality and the Technocracy works to manipulate what that amounts to, yeah? So assuming just a single mage is involved, I feel like trying to mess with 18, even if the mage can get past whatever defense against reality manipulation she has, amounts to trying to argue that magic could beat Goku with SuperSaiyajin8TrunksFan69. Seems like there'd be a solid wall of paradox requiring a more concerted effort to overcome there to me.

But like I said, I'm only loosely familiar with Mage

[Sharpandpointies]

Paradox isn't the issue; it doesn't work like that. Paradox isn't about people believing that the mage can mind control 18. That's not 'consensual reality'. Paradox is 'Consensual reality sez people can't do Mind Control, so good luck with that'.

Technocrats (specifically the members of the Technocratic Union, aka 'The Technocracy') get past this by controlling consensus and having all kinds of ways around it -- they're (far) less affected by Paradox, but as a trade-off can't pull off really vulgar crap easily. A New World Order mage would have a variety of different tech pieces (foci) and use various procedures (read, 'effects') to try to control 18 in subtle ways, likely over time, and claim it was possible due to 18 being 'artificial', plus nanotechnologies, plus whatever other crap they had decided to 'use'. It would, however, in the end be actual Mind Reality Alteration (aka magic).

As noted, though, in DBZ 'being powerful' allows people to just shrug crap off, so....

...although this being DBZ, she can probably shrug it off by flexing her Ki or something.

^_^

You'd probably need to go up to an Oracle level being if DBZ people can just ignore mind control with straight 'power'.

[The Arbiter]

Do the Androids even use traditional Ki?

[Sharpandpointies]

Do the Androids even use traditional Ki?

Ki, power, whatever. They is big and powerful, and laugh at puny mage. ^_^

[The Arbiter]

Ki, power, whatever. They is big and powerful, and laugh at puny mage. ^_^

Oh, not arguing. Just curious. :P

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh, not arguing. Just curious. :P

I confess to having no real idea. My exposure to DB has been limited.

[Siriel]

Do the Androids even use traditional Ki?

They've never been noted to not do so, #19 and #20 got more powerful by absorbing ki from people, Cell had regular ki and got more powerful by assimilating #17 and #18, and #17 and #18 can contribute to stuff like spirit bombs. So all evidence says yes.

[The Arbiter]

They've never been noted to not do so, #19 and #20 got more powerful by absorbing ki from people, Cell had regular ki and got more powerful by assimilating #17 and #18, and #17 and #18 can contribute to stuff like spirit bombs. So all evidence says yes.

Fair enough. I guess I was thinking the "we can't sense them" thing might have implied something, but I suppose even the Trio De Dangers had that trick.

[BitVyper]

I think it probably has to do with however they generate it. Whatever the engine they have IS, it's clearly extremely efficient, so they might just be something like a smokeless fire, not giving off anything extraneous to be detectable.