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  1. #1
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Default DCAU Wonder Woman

    Let's discuss this controversial portrayal.

  2. #2
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think it's kind of amazing, in a ridiculous way, that it took them several seasons to establish the Lasso of Truth does what everyone in their mother knows it does, and we're talking about an essential element for one of their main characters.

    Which I guess goes to show you some of the thought process that went into Wonder Woman in the DCAU.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's kind of amazing, in a ridiculous way, that it took them several seasons to establish the Lasso of Truth does what everyone in their mother knows it does, and we're talking about an essential element for one of their main characters.

    Which I guess goes to show you some of the thought process that went into Wonder Woman in the DCAU.
    Honestly? I can't condemn them for it. Who has done better than the DCAU?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Honestly? I can't condemn them for it. Who has done better than the DCAU?
    You mean with the Lasso? Pretty much every other adaptation. When it comes to adaptations in general, I'd say Young Justice, The Batman and Brave and the Bold can match the DCAU in quality.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You mean with the Lasso? Pretty much every other adaptation. When it comes to adaptations in general, I'd say Young Justice, The Batman and Brave and the Bold can match the DCAU in quality.
    What did they do with it? I don't even remember seeing the lasso used in them.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    What did they do with it? I don't even remember seeing the lasso used in them.
    They pretty much remembered it can make people tell the truth and didn't wait far too long to establish that as the DCAU did.

  7. #7
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    What did they do with it? I don't even remember seeing the lasso used in them.
    I'm 99% sure the Lasso of Truth's ability played into that episode of the Trinity fighting their Archenemies in Brave and the Bold.

  8. #8

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    At the time, I was more accepting merely because it was cool to finally see her in action outside the comics, and not for nothing, Susan Eisenberg is/was a good voice actress. I was also only just really getting into Wonder Woman, so I didn't have much to judge against.
    But as time's gone by, I've come to regard DCAU's Diana with less and less fondness.

    It very much comes across to me now she was only there because she's Wonder Woman and she has to be there, but no one involved had any real interest in her or in giving her a dynamic role. Episodes that focused on her felt obligated, like the writers had no idea what to do with her and just gave her a token effort.

    So more often we saw a Wonder Woman who defaulted to tired stereotypes and tropes like "she's a warrior" and "Wonder Woman learns not all men are boogers" and "she fights a god because what the hell else should we do with her." And that's to say nothing of how her origin, mythos, and villains were underplayed or outright ignored. When comparing how she was written with everyone else on the team, it's clear the writers cared about her the least.

    As I recall, the whole reason the shipped her with Batman (aside from Bruce Timm loving him) is because they didn't know what else to do with her. And it pains me that seems to be the thing fans remember most about Diana in JLU.

    Overall, it was passable at the time, but as I've grown older and more familiar with the character, I've become less tolerant of such portrayals of Wonder Woman. She had some good moments here and there, but I don't retain much nostalgia regarding her depiction.

    The DCAU did a lot of things right, no denying that. But its Wonder Woman was, at best, mediocre.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  9. #9
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    I’m very partial to Susan’s take on WW. I was somewhat aware of earlier WW portrayals, but her voice is what I grew up with so to speak, to the point where I’d say she’s the equivalent of what Kevin Conroy is to Batman, imo.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think I recall that they paired Diana with Bruce because it was a more unconventional choice than pairing her with Superman.

    The idea that she really doesn't need to be paired with either of them doesn't seem to have occurred to them. All we get for her in terms of supporting cast is one admittedly pretty good appearance by Steve and a few dubious cameos by Hippolyta. No Etta Candy, no Kapatelis women, no Artemis, etc. Her villains were treated as jokes. She really needed her own show, but considering what they did with her in this show, and even their "so-so" representation of Clark in his own show, they are definitely not the people equipped to do it. Or much of anything beyond Batman.

    While I will always love the original BTAS (which is close to perfection), the DCAU as a whole hasn't aged well as a representation of the entire DCU. Even TNBA/Batman Beyond isn't that great with how some of the characters ended up (Bruce/Babs pairing, Dick as Nightwing without any of the Titans history and him and Bruce never getting over their "break up," etc). I don't know that we've necessarily gotten anything consistently better yet, but we certainly can.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    I heard they paired them because she gave a friendly kiss to Batman in one episode and there was positive fan reaction.

  12. #12

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    None of these necessarily contradict one another.
    The positive response to a kiss might have started the idea. They may have liked the idea because it was unconventional compared to paring her with Superman. And they may have ran with it because they didn't have any other ideas for her.

    Regardless of the actual genesis, having Diana pine for Batman was a flimsy idea and waste of her potential that didn't benefit her at all.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  13. #13
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    What stood out to me on the show was her friendship to J’onn (the Martian). I really appreciated how “alien” they both were among humans since Diana was still banished at the time, and he lost his people (are the Amazons human?)

    Anyways, that would’ve been a friendship I would’ve like to see develop more, as well as Diana on more space related missions.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I heard they paired them because she gave a friendly kiss to Batman in one episode and there was positive fan reaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    None of these necessarily contradict one another.
    The positive response to a kiss might have started the idea. They may have liked the idea because it was unconventional compared to paring her with Superman. And they may have ran with it because they didn't have any other ideas for her.

    Regardless of the actual genesis, having Diana pine for Batman was a flimsy idea and waste of her potential that didn't benefit her at all.
    Yeah, I read the reasoning that they made the pairing based on fan reaction, but I find it hard to believe that it was some sort of happy accident. It's like they're blaming (or crediting) the fans for why they went that way. I mean, if you go out of your way to draw up a scene like that, what do you expect your fans (many of whom are Batman-oriented) to think? "Gee, let's write a protracted scene where Martian Manhunter is just going to stand there instead of phasing down to the bottom of the crater, checking for brain activity, or (gasp!) helping dig while only Batman is going to be thoughtful enough to save Wonder Woman, and Wonder Woman is going to see how sweet Batman is and reward him with a peck on the cheek. Surely no fan will think twice about this!"

    This would be borderline libelous if I were a reporting for a major media publication, but what I really think happened is that no way were they going to let a whole series go by without writing a romance mini-arc for Batman, and they just picked WW to fit the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    It very much comes across to me now she was only there because she's Wonder Woman and she has to be there, but no one involved had any real interest in her or in giving her a dynamic role. Episodes that focused on her felt obligated, like the writers had no idea what to do with her and just gave her a token effort.
    I largely agree with this. I mean, look at her origin, and look at the Lariat. They discarded these aspects of her mythology as though they weren't all that important. I joked before, would they have taken away any of the Batman staples, like his money, his tragedy, fighting prowess, gadgets, or smarts, just to make sure every character had something to do? When they brought it villains like Joker, they reserved it so that Batman had to deal with him. Making Giganta more like a Flash villain, making Cheetah useless, and making Circe someone for Batman to overcome to save WW is not being so kind to the WW lore or the WW fans.

    This is quite a salty post of mine, so I'll try to steer it back to a positive direction and reiterate that they were receptive to fan comments and tried to fix earlier oversights, and brought back the Lariat's properties (truth power, and I assume indestructibility; the animators showed it snapping in one such episode... oops!). And one could argue that having the villains is better than not having them at all. All in all, it's no better than mediocre.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    What stood out to me on the show was her friendship to J’onn (the Martian). I really appreciated how “alien” they both were among humans since Diana was still banished at the time, and he lost his people (are the Amazons human?)
    In the old myths it had that some of the Amazons were daughters of Hercules. So kinda like demi-goddesses.

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