View Poll Results: Is Jean Really Ororo's Best Friend?

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  • Yes

    85 73.28%
  • No

    31 26.72%
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  1. #316
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    You said it yourself, russian ambassador is a flatscan so she's irrelevant in the story and doesnt represent any real person or group that is relevant or inspire sympathy. Discarded.
    Hypocritical it is then. Got it.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
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  2. #317
    Mighty Member tuck frump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Hypocritical it is then. Got it.
    Did you actually have anything of value to say?
    Last edited by tuck frump; 11-12-2019 at 06:11 AM.

  3. #318
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Racist Emma Frost!
    Nah Emma can't be racist in this particular aspect...since afterwards she had a kinky time as Ororo
    GrindrStone(D)

  4. #319
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Nah Emma can't be racist in this particular aspect...since afterwards she had a kinky time as Ororo
    Yeah she stole Storm's body and hooked up with someone on it... Even more problematic.

  5. #320
    Incredible Member Strong Girl Daken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Yeah she stole Storm's body and hooked up with someone on it... Even more problematic.
    Emma is a founder of the Order of the Coagula from Get Out.

  6. #321
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I feel like Betsy is actually closer to Ororo in the grand scheme of things, but Claremont did write Ororo and Jean as especially close in his original run, so it's canon and occasionally revisited.
    Unless Storm has a penis, I doubt Betsy's her closest friend.
    "Cable was right!"

  7. #322
    Spectacular Member franckd's Avatar
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    "Mentioning Mastermind and Jean brings up an important point. Today I am sure Chris and I would be condemned for what was, after all, a prolonged psychic rape—which we knew at the time."

    John Byrne

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Theres also the fact there wasnt much time to think on this for Ororo before Jean died and stayed dead for years. Things were a little tense between XMen and XFactor when they first met in XFactor but the racial aspect was put aside.

    But maybe it shouldnt have been. Years later, during Eve of Destruction, Jean formed a team to rescue the XMen from Magneto. She scraps the litteral bottom of the barrel to find people who will willingly follow her in battle bht when thats not enough, she has the interesting idea of taking over mutant mind (which has been referred in this thread as a form of rape) and forcing her to fight for her (enslaving her in effect). And her choice of target is.... inch resting:



    Forcing one's will on an unsuspecting victim is treated as extremely immoral in the XMen narrative. Jean knows that better then anyone but apparently these rules don't apply when it comes to black women. And how can Jean justify being Ororo's friend when, after the previous incident of her treating Storm as a slave, she's doing the same thing to another black woman here, while being completely sound of mind. Notice her smug response to Magneto when confronted. What a sociopath.
    Omg this womand is hugely problematic. What in the world is happening with her?

  9. #324
    Spectacular Member franckd's Avatar
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    Bad writing and blame the character for that.

  10. #325
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Look at that Lenil Yu art.
    "Cable was right!"

  11. #326
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Yes, They are best friends. It has always been like that

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Look at that Lenil Yu art.
    He used to be so good
    My opinions are my own

  12. #327
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Nah Emma can't be racist in this particular aspect...since afterwards she had a kinky time as Ororo
    That's a double down.

  13. #328

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    I love how people always go back to problematic stories from 30 years ago. Comics change people, the writers back then got away with a lot of unfortunate things because people didn't push back on them the way they do today.

    Everyone has an absolute right to push back on Marauders colorists for making Storm look almost white. This is a valid criticism on a book that is happening right now today!

    Going back into Chris Claremont's twisted fantasies about women, all I can say is for all of his appearances of progressiveness with female characters and people of color, there was an underlying sexual BDSM aspect to a lot of it, and there were even racist tropes in there too, and in some ways I sometimes wonder if Claremont was a bit more misogynist then people acknowledge. Black Queen Jean was racist with Ororo because that is how Claremont envisioned Jean's dark side. Another writer would do it entirely differently than that based on Jean's history as a character. Emma Frost, I don't even think she was racist, she was an equal opportunity villain who would mind control any target to get her way. If anything I think she was attracted to Storm, or at the very least thought Storm was beautiful so she picked her to be the one who she took over to infiltrate the X-Men at the time.

    Lets go to the current modern run, or even back to the 90's.
    In the 90's, Jean and Ororo were close friends and they acted like they were, and they have been ever since.
    In the 90's, Emma Frost was co-headmistress with Sean and the ran a school with a very diverse class of teenagers. They were also really supportive of their class. I think the only people Emma is prejudiced against is humans, but even there she makes exceptions for people who are being oppressed, like when she convinced Scott to let those human refugees come to Utopia.

    In the current run, Jean and Ororo are friends.
    In the current run, as much as Emma and Ororo aren't talking right now, Emma still respects Ororo so much that she wanted Ororo to be her first pick to take the Red Queen position and be a partner in the financial day to day operations of the Hellfire Trading Company! Personally, I think Emma wants to get Ororo back as a friend and I wouldn't be surprised if this comes up in Marauders at some point.

    We also know that Emma and Jean are going to team up to rescue Ororo in the Giant Size in February. Why, because they both care about Ororo and want to help her! Heck, this is the reason that Emma and Jean are going to set aside their differences for a bit, because they are worried about Ororo and choose to work together to save her.

    I made an edit, "refugees come to Utopia"
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  14. #329
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I love how people always go back to problematic stories from 30 years ago. Comics change people, the writers back then got away with a lot of unfortunate things because people didn't push back on them the way they do today.

    Everyone has an absolute right to push back on Marauders colorists for making Storm look almost white. This is a valid criticism on a book that is happening right now today!

    Going back into Chris Claremont's twisted fantasies about women, all I can say is for all of his appearances of progressiveness with female characters and people of color, there was an underlying sexual BDSM aspect to a lot of it, and there were even racist tropes in there too, and in some ways I sometimes wonder if Claremont was a bit more misogynist then people acknowledge. Black Queen Jean was racist with Ororo because that is how Claremont envisioned Jean's dark side. Another writer would do it entirely differently than that based on Jean's history as a character. Emma Frost, I don't even think she was racist, she was an equal opportunity villain who would mind control any target to get her way. If anything I think she was attracted to Storm, or at the very least thought Storm was beautiful so she picked her to be the one who she took over to infiltrate the X-Men at the time.

    Lets go to the current modern run, or even back to the 90's.
    In the 90's, Jean and Ororo were close friends and they acted like they were, and they have been ever since.
    In the 90's, Emma Frost was co-headmistress with Sean and the ran a school with a very diverse class of teenagers. They were also really supportive of their class. I think the only people Emma is prejudiced against is humans, but even there she makes exceptions for people who are being oppressed, like when she convinced Scott to let those human refugees come to Utopia.

    In the current run, Jean and Ororo are friends.
    In the current run, as much as Emma and Ororo aren't talking right now, Emma still respects Ororo so much that she wanted Ororo to be her first pick to take the Red Queen position and be a partner in the financial day to day operations of the Hellfire Trading Company! Personally, I think Emma wants to get Ororo back as a friend and I wouldn't be surprised if this comes up in Marauders at some point.

    We also know that Emma and Jean are going to team up to rescue Ororo in the Giant Size in February. Why, because they both care about Ororo and want to help her! Heck, this is the reason that Emma and Jean are going to set aside their differences for a bit, because they are worried about Ororo and choose to work together to save her.

    I made an edit, "refugees come to Utopia"
    Jean did rock cornrows that one embarrassing Summer when she went on that cruise with her parents
    Last edited by BroHomo; 11-12-2019 at 10:45 AM.
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Jean did rock cornrows that one embarrassing Summer when she went in that cruise with her parents
    So did a lot of kids in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Seriously is having corn rows really cultural appropriation, or is it cultural admiration!

    I have seen some elaborate cultural Halloween costumes that are not derogatory, but realistic, because the people making those costumes admire that culture. But on the other hand there are people who do costumes that are racial stereotypes and there are a lot of those people too. A lot of kids emulated their favourite African American singers because they admired those people and they were heroes to them as kids.

    So Jean with cornrows on a trip with her parents! Maybe her favourite american singers were all female hip hop and rap artists!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

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