Is Jean Grey Really Ororo's Best Friend?

[butterflykyss]

I have no idea how I managed to miss this gem, but holy hell. Let’s go one further. You ever think about how Xavier, Jean and Emma have all used their white privileged and assumed superiority to manipulate Ororo as the “naive little savage.” Xavier either lied or was grossly misinformed about her power and heritage. He then inserted himself into her life as the great white savior and convinced her to discontinue her own good works.

Jean Grey has shamed Ororo into conforming to her social standards multiple times. Ororo is not a telepath. She has no way of knowing Jean’s thoughts. Jean has intruded on Ororo’s tho. Then managed to shame Ororo for feeling violated. And now fans are suggesting that Ororo is the naive little savage that’s too uncivilized to know when Jean is belittling her? Lol I cannot.

Then there’s Emma Frost who has shown nothing but jealousy and contempt for Ororo over the years. She stole her body and allowed Sebastian Shaw to have his way with it and thought nothing of it. That only after mentally torturing her for who knows how long. She taunted and provoked her about her marriage whenever she could. And she made a complete fool of Storm after she went against her better judgement to trust Emma.

But Storm is meant to forgive and never question the subtle micro aggressions these three have leveled against her. It trips me out sometimes.

this post shattered me to my core!!! you my friend are amazing!!!!! there is not one lie in this post, not one. why are we victimizing the victim here, while making excuses for the aggressors, and not holding those who wronged her accountable for their actions?

[butterflykyss]

A message board where if you disagree with someone, you can be accused of going "through every type of mental gymnastics to unburden a white woman of her racism". That's a massive assumption about people you likely don't know just because they have a differing opinion. That's why I asked the OP what their intention was, rather than assuming.

I missed your question beloved. what did you want to know?

[franckd]

No because it wasn't jean. Just because you feel it was Jean doesn't mean others do, which they have clearly stated.

In my book, it was. I mean, the phoenix entity copied her body and soul, and memories. When the Phoenix became Jean, it wasn't aware itself that it was a copy. It really thought it was he genuine stuff. So, yes, it was intended to be Jean, then retconed. But even the retcon don't negate my point. Even Jean in the original X-Factor years said that Phoenix was her, but that she wasn't Phoenix. Yeah, she said it :"Phoenix was me"... She didn't say "Phoenix was a copy of me"

Anyway, I love way too much the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga to take it from Jean.

[terrancejameson]

this post shattered me to my core!!! you my friend are amazing!!!!! there is not one lie in this post, not one. why are we victimizing the victim here, while making excuses for the aggressors, and not holding those who wronged her accountable for their actions?

We know why. Amber Guyger was hugged by the family of the man she murdered because they believed he would’ve forgiven her. (I’ll wait for him to say it.) And miss thing was even hugged by the JUDGE and was WHOLLY IMPROPER. But Jesus is king, slavery is a choice, white supremacy isn’t a disease, Storm is too uneducated to know when she’s being insulted and Xavier wasn’t jealous because she was living the life he supposedly dreamed of. Gurl....

[Strong Girl Daken]

[tuck frump]

In my book, it was. I mean, the phoenix entity copied her body and soul, and memories. When the Phoenix became Jean, it wasn't aware itself that it was a copy. It really thought it was he genuine stuff. So, yes, it was intended to be Jean, then retconed. But even the retcon don't negate my point. Even Jean in the original X-Factor years said that Phoenix was her, but that she wasn't Phoenix. Yeah, she said it :"Phoenix was me"... She didn't say "Phoenix was a copy of me"

Anyway, I love way too much the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga to take it from Jean.

Exactly, Phoenix was never supposed to be a copy, it was a shard of Jean's soul. All the more obvious since in the fantasy, Phoenix was reliving what she presumed was Jean's past life. Why would a cosmic deity even show signs of racism it dont make no sense. It was Jean's own humanity which dictated her actions, good and evil.

[butterflykyss]

We know why. Amber Guyger was hugged by the family of the man she murdered because they believed he would’ve forgiven her. (I’ll wait for him to say it.) And miss thing was even hugged by the JUDGE and was WHOLLY IMPROPER. But Jesus is king, slavery is a choice, white supremacy isn’t a disease, Storm is too uneducated to know when she’s being insulted and Xavier wasn’t jealous because she was living the life he supposedly dreamed of. Gurl....

ok I'm through with you...








this is so incredibly sad but true beloved.

[Havok83]

Exactly, Phoenix was never supposed to be a copy, it was a shard of Jean's soul. All the more obvious since in the fantasy, Phoenix was reliving what she presumed was Jean's past life. Why would a cosmic deity even show signs of racism it dont make no sense. It was Jean's own humanity which dictated her actions, good and evil.

It wasnt a past life of Jean, but one of her ancestors and she showed signs of racism bc thats what Msatermind wanted of her. If anything it was he projecting on her. Her reality didnt exist and she was living the life of someone through the lens of 1700 because of Mastermind and Emma's manipulation

[franckd]

Exactly, Phoenix was never supposed to be a copy, it was a shard of Jean's soul. All the more obvious since in the fantasy, Phoenix was reliving what she presumed was Jean's past life. Why would a cosmic deity even show signs of racism it dont make no sense. It was Jean's own humanity which dictated her actions, good and evil.

And that's what made Jean really interesting imo. She wasn't the goody girl some people see. She had flaws, she sometimes could lack morality (when she erased Kitty's parents memory)... It was all Jean. The good, and the bad. The Dark Phoenix saga was deep, and had such a great impact because it was Jean.

[tuck frump]

It wasnt a past life of Jean, but one of her ancestors and she showed signs of racism bc thats what Msatermind wanted of her. If anything it was he projecting on her. Her reality didnt exist and she was living the life of someone through the lens of 1700 because of Mastermind and Emma's manipulation

So Im pretty sure I asked u in the past couple of days if you'd read DPS recently but now I gotta be more specific: dis u read the Dark Phoenix Saga and interpret that Jean was mind-controlled, not influenced and perverted but actually mind-controlled to the point her thoughts were not hers and she was essentially a puppet with no agency whatsoever for a good chunk of the story? Because theres missing the point of a story and then theres that.

[Strong Girl Daken]

[butterflykyss]

Exactly, Phoenix was never supposed to be a copy, it was a shard of Jean's soul. All the more obvious since in the fantasy, Phoenix was reliving what she presumed was Jean's past life. Why would a cosmic deity even show signs of racism it dont make no sense. It was Jean's own humanity which dictated her actions, good and evil.

excellent point. the Phoenix itself wouldnt have any knowledge of such prejudices.

And that's what made Jean really interesting imo. She wasn't the goody girl some people see. She had flaws, she sometimes could lack morality (when she erased Kitty's parents memory)... It was all Jean. The good, and the bad. The Dark Phoenix saga was deep, and had such a great impact because it was Jean.

I think her fans, as the character has, wants to wipe a lot of her deficiencies under the rug because it makes her appear inadequate or weak. but strength as a character would be for her to acknowledge these flaws and address them. we havent seen that yet.

[TheDeadSpace]

So Im pretty sure I asked u in the past couple of days if you'd read DPS recently but now I gotta be more specific: dis u read the Dark Phoenix Saga and interpret that Jean was mind-controlled, not influenced and perverted but actually mind-controlled to the point her thoughts were not hers and she was essentially a puppet with no agency whatsoever for a good chunk of the story? Because theres missing the point of a story and then theres that.

Perhaps, but if Jean is really a racist, then I guess that also means she loves Mastermind, wants to join the hellfire club, and wants to walk around in underwear. If that's not the case for the others, why is the racism aspect the only truth?

Xavier's face in this pic looks like a peanut.

That aside, I think Jean considering her closer than her sister is pretty telling.

[tuck frump]

And that's what made Jean really interesting imo. She wasn't the goody girl some people see. She had flaws, she sometimes could lack morality (when she erased Kitty's parents memory)... It was all Jean. The good, and the bad. The Dark Phoenix saga was deep, and had such a great impact because it was Jean.

Exactly. This only makes Jean flawed which in turn makes her interesting. But people only want their fave to be uwu cinnamon rolls too precious for this world not realizing this is holding the characters back creatively.

[franckd]

It wasnt a past life of Jean, but one of her ancestors and she showed signs of racism bc thats what Msatermind wanted of her. If anything it was he projecting on her. Her reality didnt exist and she was living the life of someone through the lens of 1700 because of Mastermind and Emma's manipulation

I need to read the saga again. I mean, I really want to know and understand how much influence Mastermind had on her, and how it really, really worked. I remember that Jean was a the time corrupted by both her powers, and by the Hellfire Club. But yes, she was thinking that she was living the life of an ancestor. She was even thinking that her Phoenix powers made her travel back in time, in very long past. So she was still Jean. The question is how much influence Mastremind had.

Let me think... If Mastermind had drugged Jean, we'd say that she was not responsible of her actions. For exemple, if he drugged her, and then she would have sex with him (she absolutely wouldn't want if not drugged) then we all agree that she wasn't responsible, no ?